(L) Girls und Panzer

[Julio C]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Episode 8:

Darjeeling seems to have come as a guest to Pravda - the British are friendly with the Russians?

Battle in the snow! 15 vs. 6 looks even more unfair than the match with Saunders of 10 vs. 5. At least the Oorai team isn't against something like a Firefly tank this time, and those T-34 seem to have thin armour because they are easily white flagged.

Oorai team becomes surrounded and the StuG is crippled. I wonder how Miho would get them out of this situation? The last scene reminds me of how the german 9th army was surrounded and outnumbered by the russians during WWII.

I thought 10 was the max allowed

[Ithekro]

When have the Russians ever played by the rules when it comes to warfare and numbers?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I'm going to do a full write up after I watch episode 8 again, but I'd like to touch on a few points. Based on what we've seen so far, Miho isn't some sort of perfect commander; she's made crucial mistakes in every fight so far, and she's mostly pulled through because of her ability to improvise and by relying on her teammates. The mistake she made against Pravda isn't in failing to control her command - this was impossible given that Ooarai has low cohesion and low discipline. What Miho failed to do was to clearly explain before the match that Pravda liked pulling off feigned retreats and the importance of not overextending themselves.

That, and they should have decided on a plan long before the actual match. The day before, at least. Not a T minus 5 minutes.

I see not knowing the stakes as an advantage. If Miho had known ahead of time, the rest of Ooarai would know as well, and it would impact their morale. They would have gone with her original plan and probably lost because they don't have the tenacity or numbers to fight a grinding match. There's also the fact that Katyusha, for all her bluster and arrogance, is a better tactician than Miho. Now that they're trapped in the church, they're at close enough quarters to get a shot at the Pravda flag tank and win outright.

We don't know if Katyusha is better, though it's certainly possible. But she doesn't have to fight an uphill battle just to get her team mates to follow her plans, and they're all experienced with operating tanks.

Originally Posted by willx

I'm going to come right out and say it. Miho is emotionally weak. It's terribly annoying and one of the aspects of the show that bugs me. Yukari & Co., the beloved tanks and the attention to detail that makes the rest of the world "living and breathing" make this series for me. I could take or leave Miho when she's not being whiny and/or angsty ..

Reply hazy, ask again later

One of her biggest problems is that, while she doesn't mind doing tankery, she doesn't want to win. Or she doesn't want to try to win. That'd remind her too much of her time in Black Forest.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

I am a bit glad that Miho won't have to pay for her indecisiveness with the blood of others... she isn't even likely to see Oarai lose and forced to disband, as good a lesson as that may be. The only things that she would need to overcome as having been disowned and having to live up to what it means to command.

I think you are still being a bit harsh to Miho. Even though she is the nominal commander, the Student Council team consistently interrupts her orders. Worse, they often instigate others to follow suit.

You also have to wonder, what the hell is the point of having a trainer if they can't even work out this minor, but vital detail of effective communication & leadership?

- Tak

[Chiaki_chan]

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That, and they should have decided on a plan long before the actual match. The day before, at least. Not a T minus 5 minutes.

And even then, she didn't exactly explain any of it to them. She started to, by the looks of it, but then everyone else started throwing out gung-ho suggestions and she just went along with it because of the "fun" aspect.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

We don't know if Katyusha is better, though it's certainly possible. But she doesn't have to fight an uphill battle just to get her team mates to follow her plans, and they're all experienced with operating tanks.

And given the more military-like structure of some other schools like Pravda, they also probably have more than 1 tactician among them and not just their commander doing everything.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

One of her biggest problems is that, while she doesn't mind doing tankery, she doesn't want to win. Or she doesn't want to try to win. That'd remind her too much of her time in Black Forest.

I don't think it has to do with winning in general, but, as we saw with her mother, more about having winning being the one and only priority and doing whatever is necessary to achieve it. As mentioned, as if the whole competition was an actual war. She'd probably like to win (how often does a person NOT want to win?), but she certainly doesn't mind losing either (though that option is now out the window pretty much x_x).

If this were a Black Forest team, if one of their ("less important") tanks was falling behind like we saw with the Char B1 early on, they'd probably just leave it behind because it would slow them down otherwise and impact their chance at winning, and not have anyone go and help them like Mako did.

[Kaoru Chujo]

This show continues to be even more tremendously popular on 2channel than it is here. Since this most recent episode was broadcast yesterday, there have been around ten thousand posts about it.

The show is up to over 182,000 posts, which is almost double the number for the next most posted-about show, Chuunibyou.

Even SAO, the most popular show of the summer season, has only 266,000 posts over almost two seasons. That's plenty, but this show might almost catch up in one season, at the rate it's going.

[Ithekro]

Well World War II is still a popular subject. Strike Witches probably would have done better if it didn't have the "pantsu witches" stygma attacted to it.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Strike Witches probably would have done better if it didn't have the "pantsu witches" stygma attacted to it.

Actually, isn't that the whole reason that particular series is doing so well in Japan?

- Tak

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Tak

Thats not my point. The point is, after all these time, Oorai's chain of command is still a total disaster!

- Tak

The same was true of the 8th Army until Montgomery straightened them out, hence my example.

Originally Posted by Julio C

I thought 10 was the max allowed

10 was just the limit for the opening match. Kay specified that they couldn't assemble three full platoons (3x 4 tanks), implying that three platoons or more are allowed in other rounds.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That, and they should have decided on a plan long before the actual match. The day before, at least. Not a T minus 5 minutes.

True; although it didn't matter too much because their plans are pretty bad anyways, and there was no way for Ooarai to stick to it anyways. Trying to bumrush Pravda's flag tank isn't that bad an idea in hindsight.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

We don't know if Katyusha is better, though it's certainly possible. But she doesn't have to fight an uphill battle just to get her team mates to follow her plans, and they're all experienced with operating tanks.

We can see Pravda perform advance scouting, then formulate a plan and executing it to the point where Ooarai was going to concede. That's fantastic tactics in my book. Even better, these tactics didn't rely very much on neither a large numerical advantage nor on having superior tanks. Right now, Pravda deserves to win, and it's a bit of a shame that they won't.

Originally Posted by Tak

I think you are still being a bit harsh to Miho. Even though she is the nominal commander, the Student Council team consistently interrupts her orders. Worse, they often instigate others to follow suit.

That's where the low cohesion and low discipline come into play. They'll probably stiffen those up as there's now a greater purpose they have to fight for.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

This show continues to be even more tremendously popular on 2channel than it is here. Since this most recent episode was broadcast yesterday, there have been around ten thousand posts about it.

The show is up to over 182,000 posts, which is almost double the number for the next most posted-about show, Chuunibyou.

That's sort of crazy for an original show that had no hype, no appreciable talent attached to it, and that's made by an unheralded studio like Actas. Kudos to the people making Girls und Panzer. The real Ooarai (and Ibaraki) must be overjoyed.

[Chiaki_chan]

Oarai have a chance to beat it ... Pravda?
><

[00Coyote]

Originally Posted by Julio C

I thought 10 was the max allowed

Perhaps they remove that constraint for the semi-finals and finals.

In that case Oorai Girls Academy finally have the upperhand, if they can find enough tanks.

Spoiler for Behold Oorai Girls Academy's Secret Weapon:

[Chiaki_chan]

[Ithekro]

Probably one of the more clever parodies of a Soviet hammer and sickle with star emblem.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

We can see Pravda perform advance scouting, then formulate a plan and executing it to the point where Ooarai was going to concede.

Described like that, it... sounds a lot like what Miho tried against St Gloriana. She just didn't have the tanks and crews to pull it off. Which was my point: whatever tactical acumen she may or may not have, her options are sharply limited by the poor quality (and quantity) of her assets. And her own lack of will, to be fair.

That's fantastic tactics in my book. Even better, these tactics didn't rely very much on neither a large numerical advantage nor on having superior tanks. Right now, Pravda deserves to win, and it's a bit of a shame that they won't.

True.

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

If this were a Black Forest team, if one of their ("less important") tanks was falling behind like we saw with the Char B1 early on, they'd probably just leave it behind because it would slow them down otherwise and impact their chance at winning, and not have anyone go and help them like Mako did.

To them, that probably falls under "do not let that happen at all". They don't field incompetent teams. They don't have to.

[Chiaki_chan]

[RRW]

[breno.m.fis]

Guys, it is very easy to blame the weakness of Miho as commander, but remember that apart from the student council all the girls there were in the tournament for fun, without a real strong purpose, and that this Miho commanding a team practically novice and much less armed just to see how far they can go. Excitement aside, they never had a reason to have real conviction and desire to win. Now they have at least that, remains to be seen whether this new and heavier difficulty may put the group on track.

[Tak]

I am pretty interested in the reaction of Miho's mother & Maho once Miho pulls a win.

That being said, did I mention the tank instructor is worthless? Top of her class, tutored in the Nishizumi art of tankery by non other than the family head herself?

- Tak

[LoweGear]

Well, turns out we haven't seen the depths of Nishizumi-style ruthlessness yet:

Spoiler for Little Army manga:

From rudimentary translations done on the latest chapter (if they're right), it looks like something like Miho's situation has happened before. It also involved a tank from Maho's team falling down a cliff, but since rescue crews couldn't get there fast, the flag tank from the opposing team rushed in aid in the rescue effort... only to be shot by Maho, resulting in Nishizumi's obvious victory.

So much for honor.

It's also the exact opposite of what Miho did: Whereas Miho left her tank in order to assist in rescuing her teammates, Maho continued on by firing on the tank assisting in the rescue, despite already having the match in the bag even before the accident. Quite the counterpoint eh