AnimeSuki Forums

Justin_Brett · 2011-06-13, 01:25

I'd just prefer they actually take a risk and not have them appear at all in Force, or at least have Touma not just be palling around with them now. Even if they don't take up character development, they still take up panel space which really should be going to this series' protagonists.

I mean, you can't argue that they're not here as a courtesy for fans that would bitch otherwise, at least partially.

itanshi1 · 2011-06-13, 01:31

just the farce of filling a monthly slot when it should be a feature length enterprise :/

Akiyoshi · 2011-06-13, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I'd just prefer they actually take a risk and not have them appear at all in Force, or at least have Touma not just be palling around with them now. Even if they don't take up character development, they still take up panel space which really should be going to this series' protagonists.

Agreed, the S1/A's cast didn't apport anything actually relevant to the story, at lest nothing relevant directly related to their characters(they aren't even fighting with their original powers xDU). like i0've said a million times, the story can work just fine(if not better) without them. I sort of like the recent chapters because at least it gives a vague sense of importance to the old cast.

Keroko · 2011-06-13, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirron

Honestly, if that happened, it'd possibly cause me to drop the series. I definitely wouldn't like it as much as I did before. She's definitely a huge part of why I love the series (albeit, I also love the worldbuilding and magic systems aspect, so I expect I'd stick around for that). Unless you mean drop the old cast as a whole and focus on newer people, but I'd rather they just do another manga or whatever focused on that as opposed to dropping the old cast and keeping only the... post A's crowd, I guess?

You've summed up the reason why Nanoha is still around even though the stories would benefit tremendously if they would just focus on the newer characters. Popularity (example in case: SSX. Good, fun story, none of the old cast).

It's easier to market something by keeping the popular characters, while it's risky to remove them. I mean, we're talking about Nanoha now, but imagine if they remove Fate. The fans would scream bloody murder. In fact, during the early chapters of Vivid, they pretty much did.

00-Raiser · 2011-06-13, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I'd just prefer they actually take a risk and not have them appear at all in Force, or at least have Touma not just be palling around with them now. Even if they don't take up character development, they still take up panel space which really should be going to this series' protagonists.

I mean, you can't argue that they're not here as a courtesy for fans that would bitch otherwise, at least partially.

I dunno, it's pretty logical story wise for them to be there. You got these powerful Eclipse infectees running around so of course you're going to send in the best you have to take them down and test your new weapons.

Akiyoshi · 2011-06-13, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I dunno, it's pretty logical story wise for them to be there. You got these powerful Eclipse infectees running around so of course you're going to send in the best you have to take them down and test your new weapons.

Except that they perfectly know that Eclipse infectees have a very notorious advantage against any mage ....even over the best they have. Even more illogical taking into consideration that the TSAB have indeed better options to form their Anti-Eclipse patrol, the Numbers. We argued for months about possible reasons for the numbers to not be present on the battle but we now have mindless Number expies throwed into battle and in Ch. 16 a good bunch of them appeared onpage so probably the cyber-girls will finally be launched to battle, so ...if they planned to launch the combat cyborgs to battle anyway ....why on earth they let their best mage resources to be utterly trounced by the Huckebein?

Keroko · 2011-06-13, 10:08

Because, again, the numbers are a low and finite resource. The TSAB needs technology that other mages can handle to fight against the Eclipse.

Are the numbers the best resource to fight against the Hucklebein? Yes.

Are they the best resource to fight against the Eclipse? No.

The difference between fighting a single group of humans and a disease is quite large. The former is confined and ultimately mortal. The later could appear anywhere even years after the numbers all died of old age.

Akiyoshi · 2011-06-13, 10:23

And now here is a full-fledged Cyborg platoon ready to combat the Eclipse infecteed and with the ability to use the AEC- Equips proficiently. But apparently it needs first to see a group of elite mages being trounced to receive the green light.

Keroko · 2011-06-13, 11:25

Conflicting translations are a fun thing, because another half-translation I've seen says that there is 'no trace of life' in it, making them androids rather than cyborgs.

Which, considering it makes a hellalot more sense than the TSAB suddenly switching from "cyborgs are teh evils" to "hey, let's give the green light for mass-production" is also a far more likely translation.

Akiyoshi · 2011-06-13, 11:34

Yup, the correct them is android, my bad. Still, they already have much more effective resources to fight the hucks and they still let the mages take the bullets.

By the way, i hope the heroes now that they're VERY councsious about the insane regenerative capabilities of an Eclipse Driver and the dangers of playing "cool" in front of them take a new attitude in battle and allow themselves to brutalize the Hucks without mercy, it's not like if they're going to die anyways xD

Justin_Brett · 2011-06-13, 11:55

They will probably have a scene where one of them's getting beat up by the Raptors, and it'll be played for sympathy, even though they can just regenerate. Unless they can magically negate that somehow. Really, anyone with the Hucks' powers is never going to be the underdog in any given situation.

And yeah Raiser, I get that. But if they're just here to handle the people Touma's not going to fight, and not going to progress much, that kinda proves my point.

itanshi1 · 2011-06-13, 14:03

i don't see the end of Stardust memory playing out here, just saying

Mirron · 2011-06-13, 15:10

It's what I like, simple as that. As for the logic of sending the best mages against the newest threat... what would you advice Aki, sending the worst mages against the newest threat? They kind of needed to act now, because the Huckbein kidnapped someone. And working out weapons that the entire army can use is a much more logical solution than massproducing drones, because those will be costly in the long-run.

Tiresias · 2011-06-13, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirron

And working out weapons that the entire army can use is a much more logical solution than massproducing drones

Right, about that. Has it been confirmed that the guns are for the grunt mages? IIRC the chapter hasn't been scanlated yet, and one of the translations I've found stated that the guns are for the ReapersRaptors

Mirron · 2011-06-13, 18:38

No clue on the guns off the top of my head, though I believe the one Nanoha uses that isn't Fortress is meant for massproduction, but I do know Vita's Warhammer is meant for grunts. In fact, I recall a number of jokes being made about grunts running around with one.

Even if all of them aren't meant for standard use, it's just testing for more information and eventual mass-production of other models, so it makes sense to me.

00-Raiser · 2011-06-13, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

They will probably have a scene where one of them's getting beat up by the Raptors, and it'll be played for sympathy, even though they can just regenerate. Unless they can magically negate that somehow. Really, anyone with the Hucks' powers is never going to be the underdog in any given situation.

For some reason I imagine this turning out like the Abyss Eaters from Claymore. In their first appearence they easily devoured the character who was supposedly the strongest around and was set up to be one of the big bads.

itanshi1 · 2011-06-13, 19:01

yeah now they just annoying, but still a threat

Tiresias · 2011-06-13, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirron

No clue on the guns off the top of my head, though I believe the one Nanoha uses that isn't Fortress is meant for massproduction, but I do know Vita's Warhammer is meant for grunts. In fact, I recall a number of jokes being made about grunts running around with one.

Thing is, whether it's made for mage grunts or Raptor grunts makes a huge difference on how to perceive the larger picture.

If the weapons are for mages grunts (okay, so the prototypes might not be, but the mass-produced ones will), then it makes sense for the Primadona Squad to test the weapons, since they're also mages. Elite mages, but mages nonetheless.

However, if the weapons are for the Raptors, which are cyborgs/androids/not-fully-magic-using, then it makes little sense for the Primadona Squad to be the testers. Better let the NumberS test the prototypes since they have more similarities with the Raptors than the Ace mages.

Justin_Brett · 2011-06-13, 21:11

I won't argue with annoying, but subjecting them to Villain Decay in their second fight probably isn't gonna happen.

Mirron · 2011-06-13, 21:40

I'm pretty sure they said it was meant for TSAB troops. But I have no clue, and I don't have a desire... bleh, thought the one I had saved might have been the translated copy. But the translation for the 04 Next should be around here somewhere.

And even if it was meant for Raptors... maybe the Numbers just, you know... refused? I mean, they aren't actually part of the TSAB organization, and they may not want to be involved in combat anymore. Further, while the main crew are at least shown to be trustworthy (although suspicions of Hayate and co. still linger), the Numbers... don't really have that same level of trust. Maybe they don't want to trust experimental prototypes to a group of people whom they don't really trust... wait, they can't be meant for the Raptors...

All the Next stuff is meant to convert magical energy into physical force. How are the Raptors supposed to use them without magic? I suppose they could pull a Cartridge system or something, but I think the Raptors are meant to have their own weapons.

2011-06-13, 01:31	Link #2522
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	just the farce of filling a monthly slot when it should be a feature length enterprise :/ __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-06-13, 10:23	Link #2528
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	And now here is a full-fledged Cyborg platoon ready to combat the Eclipse infecteed and with the ability to use the AEC- Equips proficiently. But apparently it needs first to see a group of elite mages being trounced to receive the green light. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-06-13, 11:34	Link #2530
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Yup, the correct them is android, my bad. Still, they already have much more effective resources to fight the hucks and they still let the mages take the bullets. By the way, i hope the heroes now that they're VERY councsious about the insane regenerative capabilities of an Eclipse Driver and the dangers of playing "cool" in front of them take a new attitude in battle and allow themselves to brutalize the Hucks without mercy, it's not like if they're going to die anyways xD __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-06-13, 14:03	Link #2532
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	i don't see the end of Stardust memory playing out here, just saying __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-06-13, 19:01	Link #2537
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	yeah now they just annoying, but still a threat __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-06-13, 01:25	Link #2521
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I'd just prefer they actually take a risk and not have them appear at all in Force, or at least have Touma not just be palling around with them now. Even if they don't take up character development, they still take up panel space which really should be going to this series' protagonists. I mean, you can't argue that they're not here as a courtesy for fans that would bitch otherwise, at least partially.

2011-06-13, 10:08	Link #2527
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Because, again, the numbers are a low and finite resource. The TSAB needs technology that other mages can handle to fight against the Eclipse. Are the numbers the best resource to fight against the Hucklebein? Yes. Are they the best resource to fight against the Eclipse? No. The difference between fighting a single group of humans and a disease is quite large. The former is confined and ultimately mortal. The later could appear anywhere even years after the numbers all died of old age.

2011-06-13, 11:25	Link #2529
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Conflicting translations are a fun thing, because another half-translation I've seen says that there is 'no trace of life' in it, making them androids rather than cyborgs. Which, considering it makes a hellalot more sense than the TSAB suddenly switching from "cyborgs are teh evils" to "hey, let's give the green light for mass-production" is also a far more likely translation.

2011-06-13, 11:55	Link #2531
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	They will probably have a scene where one of them's getting beat up by the Raptors, and it'll be played for sympathy, even though they can just regenerate. Unless they can magically negate that somehow. Really, anyone with the Hucks' powers is never going to be the underdog in any given situation. And yeah Raiser, I get that. But if they're just here to handle the people Touma's not going to fight, and not going to progress much, that kinda proves my point.

2011-06-13, 15:10	Link #2533
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	It's what I like, simple as that. As for the logic of sending the best mages against the newest threat... what would you advice Aki, sending the worst mages against the newest threat? They kind of needed to act now, because the Huckbein kidnapped someone. And working out weapons that the entire army can use is a much more logical solution than massproducing drones, because those will be costly in the long-run.

2011-06-13, 18:38	Link #2535
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	No clue on the guns off the top of my head, though I believe the one Nanoha uses that isn't Fortress is meant for massproduction, but I do know Vita's Warhammer is meant for grunts. In fact, I recall a number of jokes being made about grunts running around with one. Even if all of them aren't meant for standard use, it's just testing for more information and eventual mass-production of other models, so it makes sense to me.

2011-06-13, 21:11	Link #2539
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I won't argue with annoying, but subjecting them to Villain Decay in their second fight probably isn't gonna happen.

2011-06-13, 21:40	Link #2540
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	I'm pretty sure they said it was meant for TSAB troops. But I have no clue, and I don't have a desire... bleh, thought the one I had saved might have been the translated copy. But the translation for the 04 Next should be around here somewhere. And even if it was meant for Raptors... maybe the Numbers just, you know... refused? I mean, they aren't actually part of the TSAB organization, and they may not want to be involved in combat anymore. Further, while the main crew are at least shown to be trustworthy (although suspicions of Hayate and co. still linger), the Numbers... don't really have that same level of trust. Maybe they don't want to trust experimental prototypes to a group of people whom they don't really trust... wait, they can't be meant for the Raptors... All the Next stuff is meant to convert magical energy into physical force. How are the Raptors supposed to use them without magic? I suppose they could pull a Cartridge system or something, but I think the Raptors are meant to have their own weapons.