2013-03-20, 19:55 | Link #61 |
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Sarutobi may have been said to have been the strongest in part one but now Kishimoto is saying Hashirama Senju is the strongest. The fact that Sarutobi was formerly stated as being the strongest in manga doesn't undue the retcon that was just performed by the mangaka of this manga. Unless we're told otherwise we have to go by what the mangaka is currently telling us and unfortunately we're being told that Sarutobi was second best.
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2013-03-20, 20:00 | Link #62 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
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Incidentally the "manga stated this or that" bit isn't a very good point, the manga seldom states anything, characters do. And those characters may be mistaken or lying. In this case you can ignore the power inflation, the retcons and the author obvious intent in displaying the fact that Madara and Hashirama have been and still are unmatched in power if you wish but the statement from Iruka you go by is easily countered by the fact that it was also stated that people believed the stories of Madara and Hashirama's power to be a myth. Something that simply wasn't possible. Even Oonoki a Kage who was alive at the time and who actually fought Madara didn't realize the reality of this power. Long story short, yes Iruka said that but realizing that this statement no longer hold much weight by now isn't arguing against a fact, it's basic reading comprehension. We're not even told that, we just don't know where he stands except below Hashirama like pretty much everybody in history save for the original Rikudou Sennin and possibly Edo Madara. |
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2013-03-20, 20:27 | Link #63 | |
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2013-03-20, 20:53 | Link #64 | ||
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^you have become an official troll at this point Kona. the manga also stated that tobi was madara (many, many, many times and from various characters including himself...)
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the VotE fight takes place after konoha was formed and was the believed end of madara. hashirama cant kill himself right now or things will get weird with edo-tensei and people not realizing he's a zombie... lol |
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2013-03-20, 20:54 | Link #65 | |
lost ronin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
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disbanding the clan is possible but it wouldn't make much sense if you consider tobirama's personality. and how about the rest of the senju? i doubt they would agree to that so easily. i hope kishi could shed some light on this in the following chapters. i've always wondered about the fate of the senju and like you i considered this very same theory until the last few chapters when kishi showed us how dominating the senju really were and how madara was almost killed by the senju brothers. that's when i started doubting this theory.
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2013-03-20, 20:58 | Link #66 |
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tobirama is harsh, but he does seem to put the village above everything else. if he saw it fit for the senju to disband to save the village, i think there's a decent chance he would do it. especially if it was hashirama's dying wish or something like that
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2013-03-20, 21:18 | Link #67 |
lost ronin
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
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if that's the case, i think it's kinda stupid considering they did it because of a sore loser like madara who seemingly wanted peace anyway. not to mention that tobirama never really trusted the uchiha despite their supposed "sacrifices", he even antagonized (i doubt purposely) them which led to their eventual rebellion. so the war never really ended, the battles just became more political.
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2013-03-20, 22:21 | Link #68 |
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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we know the village gets formed so I'm thinking talk no jutsu is used next chapter...it would have worked the day tobirama struck izuna, but izuna snapped madara out of it...
meanwhile, tobirama develops edo tensei and shares its secrets with madara (he knows the seals)...who knows maybe madara raises izuna from the dead who then reminds him of his role as an avenger...
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2013-03-21, 01:23 | Link #69 | |
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It really doesn't make sense that the Senju were the creators and rulers of the village but there was an entire Uchiha clan living in the Village but no Senju clan. At this point in the story, Kishi can't introduce a whole new village or land where all the Senju live, so i really wonder what happened. Also would like to know how Madara would continuously evolve and get stronger, but still be no match for Hashirama. As little kids, Hashirama was stronger, Madara awakens sharingan, still weaker than Hashirama, awakens Mangekyou (I assume this happened) still weaker than Hashirama, gets EMS and we see him with Susanoo, still loses to Hashirama. I hope there is similar evolution in Senju DNA. And I just started wondering, in all the years after the So6P, no Uchiha has ever married a Senju? That's all it would take for another So6P isn't it? |
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2013-03-21, 01:58 | Link #70 | |
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2013-03-21, 05:52 | Link #72 | |
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Also, I like how everyone here seems to know what Kishimoto wants to write. Hiruzen was called the God of Shinobi, Hashirama was called the God of Shinobi. Does that mean Kishi changed his mind? Or does it mean Hashirama was the God of Shinobi in HIS time, but once Hiruzen was in his prime he took over the title? We don't know. I don't, and you don't either, so for the love of Christ stop pretending like you do.
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2013-03-21, 06:41 | Link #73 |
I'm not a tumor
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Wow idk where the fk I got that from then. That chapter always been a niggling after thought for me but thanks for the correction. I might've read a bad translation, or I might just be mud
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2013-03-21, 10:56 | Link #74 | |
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2013-03-21, 13:03 | Link #75 | |
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Looking at that manga page it just says that the 3rd hokage was the strongest of all. What all? All kages, that means the 5 kages of the 5 ninja villages. It wouldn't make any sense to compare him to the 1st for example because they lived in different times so they could have never met to fight or even practice. The last part has to be Tsunade only |
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2013-03-21, 13:25 | Link #76 | |
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And obviously it's not a title that's just passed through to every next dude or girl who becomes Hokage. But that doesn't mean that only person can have the title. You would do well to remember that the Sage of the Six Paths has been referred to as the God of Shinobi as well. I don't suppose you want to try to argue that Hashirama is stronger then him?
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2013-03-21, 14:11 | Link #77 |
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It's probably worth knowing that there is no definite article in Japanese, it's impossible to concretely distinguish between THE God of Shinobi and A God of Shinobi.
So it's most likely that Kishi is just referring to a category of shinobi ability. |
2013-03-21, 14:36 | Link #78 | |||
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2013-03-21, 16:00 | Link #79 | |
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Sarutobi was probably amazing. And, I expect that he really did learn all the jutsus in Konoha, making him even more amazing. But, it's tough to compete against characters (Hashirama and Madara) whose only real contemporary is as close to an actual God as the series can get (the Sage). |
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weekly spoiler discussion |
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