Myself; Yourself - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[UPR]

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

Ah yeah. Didn't realize it. I have said it the good way in the past though. Blame that loli with burning red hair.

I figured you caught it from that loli red head.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Only if you ignore how there is a whole box full of what looks like really distraught letters.

People are too forgiving of the friends when there has been no evidence that they helped in anyway. Actually in my mind they haven't helped at all and did worse from their actions on Sana's return.

And Shuu's little speech confirms my beliefs

I still don't see how you can say they're bad friends.

Spoiler for Argument:

Sana was obviously the closest person to Nanaka. They would always be together b/c Nanaka was stuck to Sana like glue.

Why? Well, Nanaka seems to be a girl with barely any self-confidence and Sana being the nice guy he is, helped her (such as holding her hand when a dog was barking at them, eating the carrots she hated in school).

I don't study psychology, but add those two together and I think anyone can come to the conclusion that Nanaka saw Sana as a source of support and strength.

I bet that Aoi-chan, Shuyri-chan, Shuu-chan tried to help out Nanaka, but knowing Nanaka, she probably didn't see the others as a source of support and strength as she did in Sana. And wasn't that close with the others, since she always focused on Sana. So, with her thinking, she probably didn't want to "flood her feelings" to hinder the others. Thereby, pushing the others away.

No matter how good of friends you are, It is really difficult to help someone when they are pushing you away. It is only until that person accepts you're help is when you can help them. I know this, because I've isolated myself from all my friends, except for 1.

Which is why she wrote all those letters and put them in the mailbox. Since Sana wasn't there to listen and comfort her and there was noone else she was really close to, Nanaka put letters in the mailbox as a way to "send her feelings to Sana". And there was a ****load of letters.

Which is also why Nanaka was pissed at Sana and not the others. She depended on Sana and would only share her secrets with him. She search for him, not the others.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Vestus

I still don't see how you can say they're bad friends.

Spoiler for Argument:

Sana was obviously the closest person to Nanaka. They would always be together b/c Nanaka was stuck to Sana like glue.

Why? Well, Nanaka seems to be a girl with barely any self-confidence and Sana being the nice guy he is, helped her (such as holding her hand when a dog was barking at them, eating the carrots she hated in school).

I don't study psychology, but add those two together and I think anyone can come to the conclusion that Nanaka saw Sana as a source of support and strength.

I bet that Aoi-chan, Shuyri-chan, Shuu-chan tried to help out Nanaka, but knowing Nanaka, she probably didn't see the others as a source of support and strength as she did in Sana. And wasn't that close with the others, since she always focused on Sana. So, with her thinking, she probably didn't want to "flood her feelings" to hinder the others. Thereby, pushing the others away.

No matter how good of friends you are, It is really difficult to help someone when they are pushing you away. It is only until that person accepts you're help is when you can help them. I know this, because I've isolated myself from all my friends, except for 1.

Which is why she wrote all those letters and put them in the mailbox. Since Sana wasn't there to listen and comfort her and there was noone else she was really close to, Nanaka put letters in the mailbox as a way to "send her feelings to Sana". And there was a ****load of letters.

Which is also why Nanaka was pissed at Sana and not the others. She depended on Sana and would only share her secrets with him. She search for him, not the others.

thankgod that someone else thinks similar to me ^^

while nanaka still havent given a clear cut answer as to why she was so mad because of sana initial "ive forgotten about you" reaction now its understandable...its something along the lines of "you never replied to my letters and now you dont even remember me!" *cuts wrist* (or in this case give sana a good slap XD)

[grey_moon]

Well that is my whole point. Sana has already pointed out that Nanaka stuck to him like glue, so there is no way that the scooby gang wouldn't have noticed. Therefore if a friend is getting dumped on from a great height and they can't do anything about it what should they do? Well in my books my friends don't go "Well I can't do anything about it, so no one else can, especially if it is contacting the guy who she used to follow around all the time..."

Remember Shuu didn't say I tried to contact you but I couldn't. He specifically said something along the lines, I couldn't do anything what could you do.

They are bad friends coz I have yet to see any support for Nanaka during the childhood trauma, they are bad friends for not throwing Sana a bone and therefore letting him stick his foot in it and potentially tearing open Nanaka's wounds (violin scene anyone?). Most importantly I haven't seen any clue that they tried at all to contact Sana when Nanaka needed him the most.

Maybe the issue is the definition of friends. I'm 30ish years old, I get on really well with people, I used to party like mad, I still get invited to every bash possible, but I quite clearly can count my friends on less the both hands. What makes them friends is they meddle. Like family they stick their noses in (sometimes when its not wanted). They can because they are special. They gotten past the whole tiptoe around and be considerate stage. In my books a friend pulls your fat out of the fire even if you don't want them to. Anything else is just a buddy or an acquaintance.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

thankgod that someone else thinks similar to me ^^

while nanaka still havent given a clear cut answer as to why she was so mad because of sana initial "ive forgotten about you" reaction now its understandable...its something along the lines of "you never replied to my letters and now you dont even remember me!" *cuts wrist* (or in this case give sana a good slap XD)

Lol I remember we had conflicting views on School Days and argued/discuss each others views trying to prove his/her view was correct. I lost that one lol. Good Times.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Well that is my whole point. Sana has already pointed out that Nanaka stuck to him like glue, so there is no way that the scooby gang wouldn't have noticed. Therefore if a friend is getting dumped on from a great height and they can't do anything about it what should they do? Well in my books my friends don't go "Well I can't do anything about it, so no one else can, especially if it is contacting the guy who she used to follow around all the time..."

Remember Shuu didn't say I tried to contact you but I couldn't. He specifically said something along the lines, I couldn't do anything what could you do.

They are bad friends coz I have yet to see any support for Nanaka during the childhood trauma, they are bad friends for not throwing Sana a bone and therefore letting him stick his foot in it and potentially tearing open Nanaka's wounds (violin scene anyone?). Most importantly I haven't seen any clue that they tried at all to contact Sana when Nanaka needed him the most.

True, but you haven't seen them explicitly ignoring Nanaka either.

My point of Nanka pushing everyone else away b/c she only saw Sana as a source of support, therefore making the task of listening/consoling Nanaka when she needed it most very difficult for the others. She may have been *ahem* a bitch *ahem* which would add to the difficulty. Because of this, her friends may have been forced to leave her alone.

Ever tried to help someone and they screamed at you "LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" repeatedly at you in response to your helping hand? It may have been like that for the Aoi, Shuryi, Shuu.

EDIT: I apologize profusely for the double post...gomei *bows*

[UPR]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Well that is my whole point. Sana has already pointed out that Nanaka stuck to him like glue, so there is no way that the scooby gang wouldn't have noticed. Therefore if a friend is getting dumped on from a great height and they can't do anything about it what should they do? Well in my books my friends don't go "Well I can't do anything about it, so no one else can, especially if it is contacting the guy who she used to follow around all the time..."

Remember Shuu didn't say I tried to contact you but I couldn't. He specifically said something along the lines, I couldn't do anything what could you do.

They are bad friends coz I have yet to see any support for Nanaka during the childhood trauma, they are bad friends for not throwing Sana a bone and therefore letting him stick his foot in it and potentially tearing open Nanaka's wounds (violin scene anyone?). Most importantly I haven't seen any clue that they tried at all to contact Sana when Nanaka needed him the most.

I agree. When Sana intially got back Nanaka was still her cold self. When Nanaka started to open up was when Sana was able to remember her song. Since Sana was around those 3 so was Nanaka. Nanaka then became more friendly with everybody because Sana was there. So if Shuu and Shuri (since there in the same class) especially Shuu would have any brains and saw that then they should have told Sana. Because one would think if Sana could open her up without knowing maybe when he is told he can help get past it, since it's obvious it still affects her. And it's abvious Sana is the only one that can help her, since none of them could what was there line of thinking in which he could not do anything.

[2H-Dragon]

For it was the lack/inability of contacting Sana. Shuu should have contacted Sana. Him saying "what could you have done" Just screamed arrogance to me and wtf what gives him the right to say that to Sana? I know he's a kid and all, but still a let down how he handled the situation.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Vestus

True, but you haven't seen them explicitly ignoring Nanaka either.

My point of Nanka pushing everyone else away b/c she only saw Sana as a source of support, therefore making the task of listening/consoling Nanaka when she needed it most very difficult for the others. She may have been *ahem* a bitch *ahem* which would add to the difficulty. Because of this, her friends may have been forced to leave her alone.

Ever tried to help someone and they screamed at you "LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" repeatedly at you in response to your helping hand? It may have been like that for the Aoi, Shuryi, Shuu.

EDIT: I apologize profusely for the double post...gomei *bows*

They are good points, but for me once we now know the reason for Nanaka's change, her desperation to see Sana during the Bad Years(TM) and finally Shuu's not so impressive statement. I can't see how it can balance out in their favour at all. It will take a bleeping good reason for me to over look what I see as their lack of action. Maybe something on the lines of we tried to contact you but we found out you slit your wrist and didn't want to burden you with more emotional trauma.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Vestus

True, but you haven't seen them explicitly ignoring Nanaka either.

My point of Nanka pushing everyone else away b/c she only saw Sana as a source of support, therefore making the task of listening/consoling Nanaka when she needed it most very difficult for the others. She may have been *ahem* a bitch *ahem* which would add to the difficulty. Because of this, her friends may have been forced to leave her alone.

Ever tried to help someone and they screamed at you "LEAVE ME ALONE!!!" repeatedly at you in response to your helping hand? It may have been like that for the Aoi, Shuryi, Shuu.

EDIT: I apologize profusely for the double post...gomei *bows*

If that's the case, then they should have told Sana to help, right?

If only Sana could do anything, and they couldn't, then that would be the best thing to do.

As for the "leave me alone" part- If someone in need of trouble and is mentally unstable and they tell you to leave them alone, I don't think it's a good thing to follow her orders and give up.
"Leave me alone!!"
"Oh, okay. I guess it can't be helped. Let's leave her to sulk by herself until Sana comes back and miraculously figures out all of this without our help"

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

They are good points, but for me once we now know the reason for Nanaka's change, her desperation to see Sana during the Bad Years(TM) and finally Shuu's not so impressive statement. I can't see how it can balance out in their favour at all. It will take a bleeping good reason for me to over look what I see as their lack of action. Maybe something on the lines of we tried to contact you but we found out you slit your wrist and didn't want to burden you with more emotional trauma.

I can't see it was them being bad friends, only good friends making bad choices:

I can see that Aoi, Shuu, Shuryi made a major error in failing to help Nanaka. I too think that they could've handled it better. However, I seriously doubt they just ignored Nanaka, I think it was the other way around. So, their choice on handling the situation wasn't the greatest of choice, but that choice was very reasonable.

Also, they were in middle school so they might not have much logic/intelligence then to make the right choice. I mean, how can you expect a middle schooler deal with a friend who lost both parents?

In addition, Shuu clearly expressed deep regret for not helping Nanaka. If he was a bad friend, would he even care?

However, I do agree with you to the extent that Aoi, Shuu, Shuyri made a major error in dealing with Nanaka's situation.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

If that's the case, then they should have told Sana to help, right?

If only Sana could do anything, and they couldn't, then that would be the best thing to do.

As for the "leave me alone" part- If someone in need of trouble and is mentally unstable and they tell you to leave them alone, I don't think it's a good thing to follow her orders and give up.
"Leave me alone!!"
"Oh, okay. I guess it can't be helped. Let's leave her to sulk by herself until Sana comes back and miraculously figures out all of this without our help"

Remember, we are talking about middle school kids. It isn't a good idea to leave someone in a unstable mental state, but they were in middle school. Kinda hard to deal with that sort of situation with the logic/intelligence/experience of a middle schooler's brain.

Also, I seriously doubt that the three had a:

"Leave me alone!!"
"Oh, okay. I guess it can't be helped. Let's leave her to sulk by herself until Sana comes back and miraculously figures out all of this without our help"

sort of reaction.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Vestus

In addition, Shuu clearly expressed deep regret for not helping Nanaka. If he was a bad friend, would he even care?

Yes, he'd care if he was a bad friend.

If he didn't care, then we'd all vote to burn him at the stake and impale him with several metal spears.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

As for the "leave me alone" part- If someone in need of trouble and is mentally unstable and they tell you to leave them alone, I don't think it's a good thing to follow her orders and give up.
"Leave me alone!!"
"Oh, okay. I guess it can't be helped. Let's leave her to sulk by herself until Sana comes back and miraculously figures out all of this without our help"

You raise a really good point here. I can't imagine how horrible it must be to feel the guilt of being the only survivor, to feel alone, to be under the suspicion for killing your own parents and to not want to be a burden on the people around you. The last part I based on the way she treats her uncle.

Originally Posted by Vestus

In addition, Shuu clearly expressed deep regret for not helping Nanaka. If he was a bad friend, would he even care?

A bad friend would think only they could solve a problem for you. A good friend would think of you first and foremost. Who cares if I can help you or not. What counts is you get help and you are safe and happy.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Yes, he'd care if he was a bad friend.

If he didn't care, then we'd all vote to burn him at the stake and impale him with several metal spears.

Seems our definitions of good and bad friends are different.

For me:
Close Friend - I think the name 'Sana' sums it up.
Good Friend - a normal friend who cares for his/her friends. (Aoi, Shuu, Shuyri)
Bad Friend - a friend, but doesn't act like any sort of friend. In short, a douche bag who seems to be a friend. (No one here)

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Vestus

Seems our definitions of good and bad friends are different.

For me:
Close Friend - I think the name 'Sana' sums it up.
Good Friend - a normal friend who cares for his/her friends. (Aoi, Shuu, Shuyri)
Bad Friend - a friend, but doesn't act like any sort of friend. In short, a douche bag. (No one here)

Ah that is the issue. For me the word friend is basically someone I would consider as important as family. For me a friend is someone who has gone through lots of good and bad times together.

A good friend is someone who is good at it, a bad friend is someone who isn't. A bad friend isn't a bad person as such in my book just someone who does a really bad job of being a friend. Kinda like having a good sibling or bad one. Just because they act really *bleep* sometimes it doesn't stop them from being family. Same thing with a friend, they have to do something really really bad to get loose that status, as it is so hard to gain it in the first place.

Best friends are ppl I implicitly trust and are very rare.

[SvenTheSweeper]

I found myself agreeing with most everybody about this being a good episode. My initial reaction to the Help Letter and the final climatic Sana-Nanaka scene wasn’t as dramatic as other people. However I watch the scene a few times, and was more emotionally moved, my eyes were also welling up.

I find it interesting that Yuzuki-sensei and Hinako share the experience of being lonely because their parents weren’t there for them after school. I hope Yuzuki-sensei could meet Hinako in a future episode to lend her some moral support.

With this episode and the last episode, Yuzuki has elevated her status in my eyes because of her inner strength, caring nature, and compassion she has shown towards other.

Sana keeps getting caught in compromising situations when Aoi barges into his apartment. You would think he would learn to lock the door, and that Aoi would learn to knock and wait before entering. Aoi is like Kramer--from the TV show Seinfeld-- barging into Jerry’s apartment to provide comedy relief. Don’t worry I won’t compare the rest of characters from each show to each other (e.g. Sana=Jerry, Shuusuke=George, Shuri=Elaine).

It is wonderful that others are mentioning ef-a tale of memories in this thread, since I like that show too.

It is interesting to note that this week’s ef (episode 7) and Myself;Yourself (episode 8)....

Spoiler for comparison of main characters from both shows:

…both have leading female osananajimi [i.e. Kei (ef) and Nanaka (M;Y)] grabbing the attention of their respective male leads [i.e. Hiro (ef) and Sana (M;Y)] both of whom have also been mostly in the dark about each girl’s inner turmoil for most of the series. At least Sana is now aware and wants to help Nanaka, let’s see if Hiro gets a clue and is up to the task of helping Kei.

I am looking forward to see how each shows deal with the turmoil.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Ah that is the issue. For me the word friend is basically someone I would consider as important as family. For me a friend is someone who has gone through lots of good and bad times together.

A good friend is someone who is good at it, a bad friend is someone who isn't. A bad friend isn't a bad person as such in my book just someone who does a really bad job of being a friend. Kinda like having a good sibling or bad one. Just because they act really *bleep* sometimes it doesn't stop them from being family. Same thing with a friend, they have to do something really really bad to get loose that status, as it is so hard to gain it in the first place.

Best friends are ppl I implicitly trust and are very rare.

So, I guess it seems that everyone agrees with each other. Sematics *groans*. That is the one thing that most arguments start over. Especially on forums.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Vestus

So, I guess it seems that everyone agrees with each other. Sematics *groans*. That is the one thing that most arguments start over. Especially on forums.

But it is a great way to gain insight into a show from other peoples perspective. Even if we started for the wrong reason, as long as we are discussing and listening to other's pov I think it is very enjoyable and a great thing

@SvenTheSweeper - I didn't equate the two and its a good comparison, but the main difference between the two is that Hinako ran away from home and could have caused her mum to be really worried. The sensei tried her best not to worry her mum.

[Deathkillz]

they are good friends but this is nanaka's problem not their's really...even if they did try to help her what use it is if she doesnt accept any of that help? she is in love heaven with sana and only wants that happy yaro
the way i see it is that they tried, failed and gave up - hoping for the best. it isnt like the abandoned her or anything...in fact it is rather the opposite as she is the one who was in isolation >_<

not that i blame her ~ nanaka

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

A bad friend would think only they could solve a problem for you. A good friend would think of you first and foremost. Who cares if I can help you or not. What counts is you get help and you are safe and happy.

I have to agree with you on this, I have personal experience with this... Lately I have been thinking of him (my so called friend) as an inconsiderate person. Unless you mean something else? Oh well.