The Translation of Haruhi Suzumiya (Novel Translation Thread)

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Agent86

Spoiler for what the a and b parts signify:

All the A parts belong to one timeline, the B parts belong to a separate timeline. What caused the timelines to separate? Read a-1 and b-1 again. The thing that happened differently is what caused the timelines to split.

Spoiler for A bit of speculation:

If the temporal divergence is not related to the chaos in volume four, the scope of the Haruhi Suzumiya saga is going to ascend yet another level and may well be on its way to epic.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Spoiler for vol 9:

The alpha and beta time lines were kinda confusing at first, I originally though they might have just been different translations. Yet there were to many differences, so after reading it through a couple times I figured it must be different realities. I was hoping for an explanation in vol 9 somewhere or at least in the notes after, but guess I'll have to wait till 10. I'm really interested to see why or who created these coinciding realities, I have a feeling it could be a set-up for quite the twist in the story which could rock.

I'm sure there are enough hints in vol 9 though if we look hard enough, we can get some clues about the whole thing, not to hard mind you can see things where there aren't if you look to hard!

[Sol Falling]

Anyone else find the lack of an author's note in Volume 9 jarring? Of course there's a huge cliffhanger the likes of which we've never seen between the other novels. I just kinda wished there were some kind of relaxing note at the end about the author's thoughts to ground the story in real life. I actually find the author's notes contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the individual stories and novels as a whole.

[fire_man545]

i went on the website and i was wondering if we somehow could dl them in a *.txt type or something like that ???

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Anyone else find the lack of an author's note in Volume 9 jarring? Of course there's a huge cliffhanger the likes of which we've never seen between the other novels. I just kinda wished there were some kind of relaxing note at the end about the author's thoughts to ground the story in real life. I actually find the author's notes contribute greatly to the atmosphere of the individual stories and novels as a whole.

I have this theory that Volumes 9 and 10 were originally conceived as one book, but the publishers convinced him that it was too long and so he split it up.

And then it got delayed for whatever reason.

Probably to time the launch with that of the anime.

[Hedd]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Spoiler for vol 9:

The alpha and beta time lines were kinda confusing at first, I originally though they might have just been different translations. Yet there were to many differences, so after reading it through a couple times I figured it must be different realities. I was hoping for an explanation in vol 9 somewhere or at least in the notes after, but guess I'll have to wait till 10. I'm really interested to see why or who created these coinciding realities, I have a feeling it could be a set-up for quite the twist in the story which could rock.

I'm sure there are enough hints in vol 9 though if we look hard enough, we can get some clues about the whole thing, not to hard mind you can see things where there aren't if you look to hard!

Spoiler for book 9:

Sasaki triggered it through some unknown means at the meeting of the adversaries and its build up to introduce the slider aka one who can jump between the "realities" at least to the best of my understanding

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Hedd

Spoiler for book 9:

Sasaki triggered it through some unknown means at the meeting of the adversaries and its build up to introduce the slider aka one who can jump between the "realities" at least to the best of my understanding

Spoiler for vol 9 split:

Actually, it appears as though it was Slider-tan who triggered it, as the split begins with the difference in Chapter Two's phone call. In alpha, it was Slider-tan who called, in beta, Sasaki.

[Jintor]

I was just wondering; how would anybody view a further rewriting of the english translation into something that is... a more familiar novel format for english readers? It's not that the translation is bad, it's that the writing style feels... very odd to me, and I'd like to see if I can tinker with it a bit and see if I can make it more accessible, while still feeling... very Kyon.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Jintor

I was just wondering; how would anybody view a further rewriting of the english translation into something that is... a more familiar novel format for english readers? It's not that the translation is bad, it's that the writing style feels... very odd to me, and I'd like to see if I can tinker with it a bit and see if I can make it more accessible, while still feeling... very Kyon.

It's just the way Kyon writes. He's intentionally ambiguous with a lot of stuff.

[Jintor]

I get the feeling it's more the Japanese Writing Style clashing badly with Western Expectations of what a novel should be like.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Jintor

I get the feeling it's more the Japanese Writing Style clashing badly with Western Expectations of what a novel should be like.

But is that any reason to change it?

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

But is that any reason to change it?

In a word, no.

[Jintor]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

But is that any reason to change it?

Fun and profit.

[panzerfan]

It wouldn't be fun for the novels to become so annotation-laden for you would it? The approach of annotation is another that is taken in translating foreign language text into English... as with The Art of War for example. As such, I can understand the sentiments involved with trying to provide a more localized mindset regarding Haruhi series.

Having said that, I actually hold to the opinion that the concept of 'what a novel should be' here may only apply in the context of American-school of thought regarding using English in a utilitarian way. A rewording of the novel in that format to me is rather dangerous as it serves to compromise the thought pattern of Kyon, who tends to think in complex sentences that heavily allude to his understandings of the Japanese perspective of humanities. I do not think that his thought pattern is made for ease of understanding to others, nor should it be...

In short, one would not be 'reading' the same Kyon by seeing a rewording of the novels.

@Kaisos Erranon: Except that he has an understanding of world literature which is rare for high school students... his western equivalence in cultural references would be to try getting a grade 10 student to nonchalantly cite from Mark Twain, Francis Drake and making references of say Treaty of Westphalia!

[Jintor]

Well, as far as I've gotten so far it seems just to be re-editing what's already been translated, as opposed to actually further making it into a more english novel. I'll submit it as an 'edit' to the Baka-Tsuki translation group and see what they think of it.

/EDIT While I'm here, what does everybody think of the accuracy of the Baka-Tsuki translation and of Strato's translations? Did they convey the ideas in the best possible manner? Will people reading only the english get the best possible idea of what the heck is going on?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Jintor

Well, as far as I've gotten so far it seems just to be re-editing what's already been translated, as opposed to actually further making it into a more english novel. I'll submit it as an 'edit' to the Baka-Tsuki translation group and see what they think of it.

/EDIT While I'm here, what does everybody think of the accuracy of the Baka-Tsuki translation and of Strato's translations? Did they convey the ideas in the best possible manner? Will people reading only the english get the best possible idea of what the heck is going on?

I think it's pretty accurate, yeah. Remember, Kyon's a simple person, at heart. He doesn't tend to use obscure puns and wordplays that make Japanese hell to translate.

Strato's isn't bad either. He just uses a different translation for some things, from what I've seen.

[Sol Falling]

mm, I enjoy baka-tsuki's translation and appreciate it very much, but I must admit that it feels somewhat unpolished and incomplete. I think, although the wiki format allows for speed and accuracy due to collaboration between public and regular translators/editors, there is also very little motivation to go back and fix issues after the translation has been out for a while, given that most of the audience has already read it. So the result is some very obvious difficult spots, where the meaning is unclear, and which although somewhat clarified by discussion on the talk pages, remains incomprehensible because that discussion did not conclude before the team had moved onto the next chapter/volume/project/etc.

A second issue is the grammar and sentence structure. Actually I think a lot of readers who are somewhat anal about that stuff like myself have been distressed by this aspect of the translations. The only problem is that the novels are just too large for someone to go through by themselves just to satisfy an obsessive compulsion (from my perspective, though I think most of the other anonymous editors began and stopped editing with the same feelings). From this perspective, I would wholly encourage anybody who were looking to implement an editing initiative by guaranteeing that they would be appreciated by someone and have an audience (if only myself).

@panzerfan:

On your points about the communicative aspects of language (i.e. utility) versus the mnemonic (functioning as a record of Kyon's thought process, as you put it). Although I can understand the implementation behind what you're suggesting (as in, preservation of the order of subjects, objects, predicates, descriptive clauses, etc. so that ideas are developed the same way), are we certain that this is something the baka-tsuki translators are actually doing? Also, I don't think that ideal is necessarily at odds with conciseness or density, which is my main issue with the sentence structure in the translation. I suppose that might still fall under "utility" (actually I'm not very familiar with the "American school of thought" regarding utility, so that's why I'm asking), though, so maybe I'm reading you wrong.

[panzerfan]

No, actually I agree with you... having done some chapters of translation myself, I am aware of how each translator takes the issue of utility differently and it shows in Baka-Tsuki's model. As a result, there exists a degree of variation regarding the use of ... say honorifics actually. The Chinese translation of Suzumiya Haruhi novels have do without the honorifics, and the translators working from that might also choose the same route, for example.

[FatPianoBoy]

Sentence structure and grammar falls under editing and general cleanup, of which there is a considerable amount waiting to be done. Jintor seems to be suggesting a complete retranslation and applying naturalization to make it more "accessible" to westerners.

[Jintor]

I've stopped that now when I realised that trying for that would remove quite a lot of wordplay and Kyon's worldview. I'm just re-editing now in terms of sentence structure and grammar now, attempting to make it feel more... natural? Not sure how to put it. I'll stick up the re-edited prologue and first chapter and see what you guys think of it.

/EDIT Basically, ignore all that crap about naturalisation, I'm just editing what's been translated now.

/EDITEDIT Here's what I've managed to edit so far.

http://lumbargo.googlepages.com/them...suzumiyaharuhi

The edits are mainly minor, but I think it moves a little more naturally now.