AnimeSuki Forums

ookamigirl · 2013-02-23, 05:07

This anime has become really dark.
OMG! Maria is the fiend.
I suspected it had to be one of those kids.
Shisei seemed like the hero they needed.
Yakomaru truly is a genius.
Using human children against humans, brilliant.
Future is looking pretty bad.

thundrakkon · 2013-02-23, 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by vansonbee

1) I thought it was through hypnosis. Remember Saki had to go through some bogus ritual at episode 1?

Death feedback is genetically encoded in their DNA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vansonbee

2) Like ChronoReverse stated, it could be more than just a simple feedback. If you see a human person, it tells you not to kill etc... everyone value their own lives.

I brought up the monk as a case of someone who suffered death feedback, but was able to function for some time and to kill more before he ultimately died from it. Shisei, who is so much more powerful, should have been able to last long enough to kill the fiend, even if his death feedback kicked in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakkou

The thing is the death feedback and inhibition is genetic, they can't knowingly kill something they recognise as a fellow human. Fiends on the other hand are most likely unable to even process such thought anymore so it does not apply to them. I think K from Tomiko's story had a bit of rational thought left in him and suffered a little from death feedback (but not lethal), which is why he went to the hospital complaining over a sore throat, etc.

As for Maria & Mamoru's child, remember that it was raised by queerats. He could have been raised to think of queerats are humans and humans as whatever Squealer wants him to think. Heck he may not even be a fiend, just a feral child raised to slaughter those that threaten it's masters the queerats. That would explain why he's not indiscriminately killing everything in sight.

The problem with the queerats being thought of as humans is that the fiend has already slaughtered a whole army of queerats, the Giant Hornets, if I remember that name correctly.

As for the genetic aspect, if something is programmed into your genes, it should activate with any image that resembles a human. It should not be something that is taught to recognize as human if it is genetically coded. For example, a baby is genetically encoded to suck on the breast for milk. It is not something that is taught. The same concept should apply here.

Anyway, I'm still not sure why the earlier episode stated that if not for Maria, so many people would not have died. I don't see how any of this is solely Maria's fault. There is also that guy that shall not be named who is equally to blame, not to mention that they helped Squealer so many times in the past.

Justice Knight · 2013-02-23, 07:42

I dont get the part where Satoru said that Shisei cant kill any1 even if hes demon or not,any1 can explain?

Algent · 2013-02-23, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justice Knight

I dont get the part where Satoru said that Shisei cant kill any1 even if hes demon or not,any1 can explain?

I think it was more like even if he sacrificed himself to kill it the Fiend Cantus Leak would make him unable to do so before the death feedback kicked in.

DmonHiro · 2013-02-23, 08:32

I don't think anyone can actually sacrifice themselves. Some might try, but you can use cantul VS cantus, so unless the fiend doesn't fight back, I don't think it can work. But it's their fault to begin with: they knew about fiends, yet the kept using that stupid death feedback. They should have AT LEAST not put that on the members of the security council. It just reeks of stupidity. They should have removed it from that masked guy, he would have won easy.

I understand that it's genetic, but there MUST be some way to prevent it, maybe by using hypnosis. I refuse to believe that there is no way around it. Fiends can ignore it because they no longer process such thought as "I'm going to kill that guy".

dreamerlisa · 2013-02-23, 08:45

I'm curious about how they will get rid of the akki, maybe saki and satoru will have the people from the temple of purity remove their death feed back mantra (can that even be done?) and kill the akki by themselves? after they've done it, then the mantra can be given again, even though the risk is high..

Hitenma · 2013-02-23, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmonHiro

I don't think anyone can actually sacrifice themselves. Some might try, but you can use cantul VS cantus, so unless the fiend doesn't fight back, I don't think it can work. But it's their fault to begin with: they knew about fiends, yet the kept using that stupid death feedback. They should have AT LEAST not put that on the members of the security council. It just reeks of stupidity. They should have removed it from that masked guy, he would have won easy.

I understand that it's genetic, but there MUST be some way to prevent it, maybe by using hypnosis. I refuse to believe that there is no way around it. Fiends can ignore it because they no longer process such thought as "I'm going to kill that guy".

And what will happen if one of those guys decides to become the new emperor and rule the rest?
Remember the reason why the death feedback was implemented in the first place: Mad Emperor.

DmonHiro · 2013-02-23, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitenma

And what will happen if one of those guys decides to become the new emperor and rule the rest?
Remember the reason why the death feedback was implemented in the first place: Mad Emperor.

OK, so have more then one guy with no death feedback. They can't all go power-hungry at once. Plus, they already have hypnosis, and very powerful hypnosis at. So hypnotize the guy with no death feedback to be completely obedient. It seems to work on anyone else.

Hitenma · 2013-02-23, 09:06

They can conspire with each other, and dispose the ones who don't agree.

Hypnosis doesn't work either.
Completely obedient? To whom?
Yeah, the man himself may not become power hungry now, but his controller can

You just simple can't let a small group of people hold absolute power.
That's why I doubt there is a way to temporarily remove death feedback.
If such a method exists and is guarded by someone, what exactly prevent him from using it on himself?

Haak · 2013-02-23, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Death feedback is genetically encoded in their DNA.

I think it's just that they're genetically predisposed to it, but it needs strengthening with hypnosis and other psychological methods in order to make it significantly effective.

Anyway, that was a truly gripping episode. The fiend being Mamoru and maria's child was spoiled for me ages ago thanks to the novel readers in this forum but I didn't see the child kidnapping coming. Yakomaru is devilishly clever.

ChronoReverse · 2013-02-23, 10:24

There's no easy solution here. You can't let a few have no death feedback because it naturally will make those different from the others and eventually feared with the potential for abuse as well (see how Tomiko, just by being that old holds so much power).

Furthermore, the attack power of humans is so great that if just one went rogue, it'd be trivial to suddenly blow away the other no-feedbacks before they know it.

If anything, the system they had in place, even if it were cruel, actually worked and never failed on its own. It was a third party after all that created this "fiend".

Eragon · 2013-02-23, 10:50

Squealer sure is brutally efficient. A most logical decision to take the human infants as spoils of war.
And, that wasn't Maria ?

I was sure the fiend(apparently a 'he'

) was Maria for like half the episode.
So, how exactly is this, patently, Maria's fault ?

ChronoReverse · 2013-02-23, 11:05

I guess since she had a kid they're going to blame her. Gotta lay the blame somewhere I guess? Seems like it shouldn't be laid all at her feet though.

AvatarST · 2013-02-23, 11:13

I don't understand the "cantus leakage" thing or why it can't be defended against.

That said, I really liked this episode, and now I'm left wondering how this situation will be solved as it seems entirely hopeless.

Eragon · 2013-02-23, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

I guess since she had a kid they're going to blame her. Gotta lay the blame somewhere I guess? Seems like it shouldn't be laid all at her feet though.

Actually, I fail to see her fault in this altogether. She was driven to take the decision to leave the village because of circumstances created by the higher ups in the village. In fact if Mamoru's execution had been clean and not turned into such a mess, this would not have happened. The Board of Education's hasty decision to off Mamoru and the consequent inefficiency with which it was executed can be blamed as being the reason behind this massacre.

mangamuscle · 2013-02-23, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon

The Board of Education's hasty decision to off Mamoru and the consequent inefficiency with which it was executed can be blamed as being the reason behind this massacre.

That was the proverbial "straw that broke the camels back", the real problem was twofold:

1) Humanity had the opportunity to wipe PK from their genes but instead decided to include fall-backs like the death-feedback.

2) Since human population had been decimated they expected that giving human level intelligence to another species would give them an endless slave labor supply.

The solution to their problems no doubt worked wonderfully for a few hundred years, but it was a flawed plan from the very start, even if all the False Minoshiro were found and destroyed the querrats would have eventually stolen a few baby humans.

Kanon · 2013-02-23, 12:29

So that's why Yakomaru had the fiend attack the hospital first! What a devilish plan! He intends to raise an army of fiend to conquer the world. He has the queerats totally fooled with his talk of freedom and equality. It's obvious to me he is only using them to further his ambition. What he truly wants is power.

Once again, I have to hand it to him: he is very smart and patient. Few people would have been able to carry out this plan so perfectly.

I don't really get how the cantus leakage enabled the fiend to kill Shisei so easily either. Was it because the attack was unpredictable and therefore he couldn't defend against it?
Now that Shisei is dead, can novel readers explain what was so special about him? The anime didn't tell us anything other that he was uber powerful.

Is the fiend named Squealer? That's what I understood from the conversation Satoru had with the rat. Kinda cute Yakomaru bestowed his former name unto him.

ChronoReverse · 2013-02-23, 12:44

I thought he was referring to Yakomoru using his original name.

blakstealth · 2013-02-23, 12:51

Motherfuckin Squealer...abducting Maria and Mamoru's offspring so it can grow up to tear the whole system down. Good lord.

Kanon · 2013-02-23, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

I thought he was referring to Yakomoru using his original name.

I thought it was weird he referred to him by his original name, but after listening to the sentence again, you're right. He's talking about Yakomaru first and then the fiend.

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2013-02-23, 05:07	Link #21
ookamigirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	This anime has become really dark. OMG! Maria is the fiend. I suspected it had to be one of those kids. Shisei seemed like the hero they needed. Yakomaru truly is a genius. Using human children against humans, brilliant. Future is looking pretty bad. __________________ My Blog --> ookami

2013-02-23, 07:42	Link #23
Justice Knight Haro Pwned U!!!! Join Date: Dec 2005	I dont get the part where Satoru said that Shisei cant kill any1 even if hes demon or not,any1 can explain? __________________

2013-02-23, 10:50	Link #32
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	Squealer sure is brutally efficient. A most logical decision to take the human infants as spoils of war. And, that wasn't Maria ? I was sure the fiend(apparently a 'he' ) was Maria for like half the episode. So, how exactly is this, patently, Maria's fault ? __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2013-02-23, 11:13	Link #34
AvatarST ◕‿‿◕ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Argentina Age: 39	I don't understand the "cantus leakage" thing or why it can't be defended against. That said, I really liked this episode, and now I'm left wondering how this situation will be solved as it seems entirely hopeless. __________________

2013-02-23, 08:32	Link #25
DmonHiro Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Romania Age: 37	I don't think anyone can actually sacrifice themselves. Some might try, but you can use cantul VS cantus, so unless the fiend doesn't fight back, I don't think it can work. But it's their fault to begin with: they knew about fiends, yet the kept using that stupid death feedback. They should have AT LEAST not put that on the members of the security council. It just reeks of stupidity. They should have removed it from that masked guy, he would have won easy. I understand that it's genetic, but there MUST be some way to prevent it, maybe by using hypnosis. I refuse to believe that there is no way around it. Fiends can ignore it because they no longer process such thought as "I'm going to kill that guy".

2013-02-23, 08:45	Link #26
dreamerlisa just another dreamer Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Indonesia Age: 28	I'm curious about how they will get rid of the akki, maybe saki and satoru will have the people from the temple of purity remove their death feed back mantra (can that even be done?) and kill the akki by themselves? after they've done it, then the mantra can be given again, even though the risk is high..

2013-02-23, 09:06	Link #29
Hitenma Behold! We are the Nine! Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Sendai, Japan Age: 38	They can conspire with each other, and dispose the ones who don't agree. Hypnosis doesn't work either. Completely obedient? To whom? Yeah, the man himself may not become power hungry now, but his controller can You just simple can't let a small group of people hold absolute power. That's why I doubt there is a way to temporarily remove death feedback. If such a method exists and is guarded by someone, what exactly prevent him from using it on himself?

2013-02-23, 10:24	Link #31
ChronoReverse Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	There's no easy solution here. You can't let a few have no death feedback because it naturally will make those different from the others and eventually feared with the potential for abuse as well (see how Tomiko, just by being that old holds so much power). Furthermore, the attack power of humans is so great that if just one went rogue, it'd be trivial to suddenly blow away the other no-feedbacks before they know it. If anything, the system they had in place, even if it were cruel, actually worked and never failed on its own. It was a third party after all that created this "fiend".

2013-02-23, 11:05	Link #33
ChronoReverse Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	I guess since she had a kid they're going to blame her. Gotta lay the blame somewhere I guess? Seems like it shouldn't be laid all at her feet though.

2013-02-23, 12:29	Link #37
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	So that's why Yakomaru had the fiend attack the hospital first! What a devilish plan! He intends to raise an army of fiend to conquer the world. He has the queerats totally fooled with his talk of freedom and equality. It's obvious to me he is only using them to further his ambition. What he truly wants is power. Once again, I have to hand it to him: he is very smart and patient. Few people would have been able to carry out this plan so perfectly. I don't really get how the cantus leakage enabled the fiend to kill Shisei so easily either. Was it because the attack was unpredictable and therefore he couldn't defend against it? Now that Shisei is dead, can novel readers explain what was so special about him? The anime didn't tell us anything other that he was uber powerful. Is the fiend named Squealer? That's what I understood from the conversation Satoru had with the rat. Kinda cute Yakomaru bestowed his former name unto him. __________________

2013-02-23, 12:44	Link #38
ChronoReverse Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	I thought he was referring to Yakomoru using his original name.

2013-02-23, 12:51	Link #39
blakstealth Les Pays Bass Join Date: Jun 2011	Motherfuckin Squealer...abducting Maria and Mamoru's offspring so it can grow up to tear the whole system down. Good lord.