Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by monstert

I think you're exaggerating the reactions just a little bit. The fact that these people are bothering to actually write about their opinions on this series means that there is still something about it that is interesting enough for them to keep on watching it. That doesn't mean that they're going to enjoy every aspect of the show, but that's already a given.

I think you should read the rest of his post first. Kaoishin_Sama is one of the more ardent supporters for 00 here, and like him I feel the same way he does. Give the series a chance.

Unfortunately, that line is all too common amongst watchers in other boards I've seen unfortunately, which is why it's been paid particular attention here.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by monstert

Well, that's why I put it in the future tense. And I doubt Setsuna would rent it for a lengthy period of time anyway, so they most likely won't have long to wait before they realize that vehicle won't be coming back on its own.

Oh, I forgot that Setsuna just kept it going when he got on his Gundam.....


I guess he'll have someone else take care of it

[Phantom-Takaya]

OR the rental company could do what other rental companies do. They charge the renter's credit on a daily basis until the renter takes it back.

Some people are put off by the story and some people are interested in it. In my opinion, this series is doing a lot better than Gundam SEED Destiny, and at the moment, that's enough for me to hang on till the end...or if it gets bad enough that it's within the same level as GSD...

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Well, I guess that's a wrap, series is a full stop trainwreck, the end of the line......is what I would say if I let one mediocore episode get me down. Obviously being Episode 08 (i.e 75% chance of being a wet and wild getaway in any given series) of a Sunrise series, (meaning you're either near perfect or you get ripped to shreds by the viewers I've noticed) and having to constantly churn out solid episodes to keep people from calling the series a trainwreck, Episode 08 takes a lot of flack. Some things I felt were a bit ridiculous were Wang's car (I felt like I was witnessing a scene straight out of a harem anime and kind of wretched a bit) and the rather rushed Setsuna and Marina meeting. It feels like they tried to do to much in one episode to be honest, and that is was the wrong episode to try to do it in. Though I am glad to see the series furthering it's characters now.

Does this sink the whole show for me? Hell No! Does it sink the episode? Not entirely. Is it the worst abomination to mankind and should Sunrise be skinned alive for making the episode? I don't think so, but judging by some peoples reactions it seems some do indeed think so. Am I disappointed? Well a little, but that's not a new thing. It still has more then enough going for it to keep the episode afloat and earn it a 6. Expect a full review and further thoughts once I get my day off from work on Thursday. Until then I just don't have the time to write about it in detail.

__________________________________________


The series wouldn't be getting nearly as much praise if it wasn't Gundam. I think anime fans rate this show highly based on brand recognition alone: Gundam by Sunrise and all that. The point is that Gundam originated as a giant robot show that has morthed into the super robot show. Add that with bad and jumpy pacing along with a darth of character development and you've got yourself a donut. It was a chore to watch epiosde 8 and left me feeling like I've just watched filler. I basically watch this because it's Gundam and I'm hoping it'll get better and more cohesive. I'm been watching Higurashi, ef - A Tale of Memories, and CLANNAD and those shows make me feel anticipated for each new episode to come. Gundamm 00 is the most hyped show of the season and it is failing to deliver compared to other shows that have less money, hype and brand recognition to work with.

Gundam 00 is getting away with flaws other shows would have been ripped to shreds 10 times over.

[monster]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I think you should read the rest of his post first. Kaoishin_Sama is one of the more ardent supporters for 00 here, and like him I feel the same way he does. Give the series a chance.

Unfortunately, that line is all too common amongst watchers in other boards I've seen unfortunately, which is why it's been paid particular attention here.

Uhm, I did. And he specifically said:

Is it the worst abomination to mankind and should Sunrise be skinned alive for making the episode? I don't think so, but judging by some peoples reactions it seems some do indeed think so.

And all I'm saying is that kind of reaction might be exaggerated a little. My post has nothing to do with Kaioshin_Sama's own opinion on the show.

To put it another way, I think most posters here are giving the series a chance, but they're not going to stop voicing their opinions along the way and wait until the end, be it positive or negative.

[qx123]

Felt was cute in this show lol

And it seems that Wang liu mei is filthy rich.

Setsuna is really an asshole, revealing his identity to Marina just like that.
Also he was pretty childish by showing off exia on the plane.
Well he was only 17 after all.

[Hage-bai]

Originally Posted by qx123

Felt was cute in this show lol

And it seems that Wang liu mei is filthy rich.

Setsuna is really an asshole, revealing his identity to Marina just like that.
Also he was pretty childish by showing off exia on the plane.
Well he was only 17 after all.

Childish for showing off the plane? In reality, such an act is considered a show of might..intimidation. A true show of strength. The people's reaction in the plane was very unrealistic...but from Marina's eyes...it seems like shes scared shitless. And so she should be.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Traece

Don't Relena and Heero have a similar conversation their first time too? As in, wasn't Heero also quite cruel and insensitive? I'm sure Marina would feel bad about what happened to him. As far as them meeting goes I rewatched that scene and she's looking out the window, then the taxicycle runs by, speeding of course. She notices Setsuna, who has his most likely familiar to her area of the world features, a device in his ear, and a serious look. Plus I always thought his clothes seemed a bit Middle Eastern... I doubt you'd see many people like that in England considering the poverty they're facing. Though even so I suppose the meeting is a bit, odd.. Oh, Krugis and Azadistan are countries in the anime.
No, he does not recover the beam daggers. But they'll be destroyed along with their technology so all is well. I'm sure they'll be replaced.

well, Setsuna shows much more emotion than Heero's "I'll kill you", and Marina shows more common sense than Relena's "kill me". At least she showed some fear when she thought Setsuna was an assassin sent to kill her, quite rare in anime I guess

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

__________________________________________


The series wouldn't be getting nearly as much praise if it wasn't Gundam. I think anime fans rate this show highly based on brand recognition alone: Gundam by Sunrise and all that. The point is that Gundam originated as a giant robot show that has morthed into the super robot show. Add that with bad and jumpy pacing along with a darth of character development and you've got yourself a donut. It was a chore to watch epiosde 8 and left me feeling like I've just watched filler. I basically watch this because it's Gundam and I'm hoping it'll get better and more cohesive. I'm been watching Higurashi, ef - A Tale of Memories, and CLANNAD and those shows make me feel anticipated for each new episode to come. Gundamm 00 is the most hyped show of the season and it is failing to deliver compared to other shows that have less money, hype and brand recognition to work with.

Gundam 00 is getting away with flaws other shows would have been ripped to shreds 10 times over.

Well firstly the whole thing about Gundam 00 and the comparison to other shows you've made.... let me just suggest you recheck all the events leading up to this season and take a brief run through of all four sub forum boards you describe. You are very very mistaken on just about everything you've said about the response to these shows, especially Gundam 00 being the most hyped show this season and immune to criticism. I'd suggest popularity polls and such. Last time I checked Clannad is not Gundam 00, which was the name I saw leading every anticipation thread/poll I came across. Also all the shows you mentioned fall into a different category and then Gundam 00, so of course they're going to feel different to you if you prefer them.

Also all of those shows you mentioned, the reason you might see them following a more obvious pattern of pacing is because they deliberately follow a strict formula. Being Visual Novel adaptations, EF, Higurashi and Clannad obviously have a linear story from beginning to end, layered out in very visible character arcs. In fact, Higurashi is a given to some extent how the scenario will play out given the nature of it's repeating timeline structure. Gundam 00 is neither an adaptation, nor is it forced to follow any strict formula or structure, other then perhaps the common themes seen in Gundam. Being free from these you can expect the series to change perspective a lot, and given the complexity of the Gundam 00 universe, this is arguably necessary. Also Gundam 00's style of plot exposition unfortunately sticks out since right now we are all so used to a very specific style of storytelling among the prominant shows this season in the visual/light novel adaptation format. In my opinion the only really jarring shifts are those which seem to occur when Wang feels it necessary to finish other people's sentences. I wish they would do away with that.

As for dearth of character development, I can't really help you there, because I've seen plenty, it's just unlike many series these days. It doesn't smack you right upside the head with it. The character development is more of an experience along with the characters over time rather than a straight up in your face affair like a sudden explanation of ones feelings for example. Gundam 00 has a very outside-in perspective of it's characters and events and as such you have to look at things with a keen eye, it's not going to telegraph a character development moment every time there is one. Observe the characters behaviour and it can tell you a lot about them without even a word needing to be said.

[mikyu]

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, Setsuna shows much more emotion than Heero's "I'll kill you", and Marina shows more common sense than Relena's "kill me". At least she showed some fear when she thought Setsuna was an assassin sent to kill her, quite rare in anime I guess

you're right ... and thats why I somehow liked that scene ^^°

and .. aren't they supposed to become a love-couple????

[D a m i e n]

seems like they microwaved and re-heated some Wing scenes in this episode.
loved seeing a "princess/leader of a nation" make some stupid action as well as a main guy revealing his identity, i m sure heero's ghost was yelling at setsuna to say something like "nextime i ll kill you". seems the show is so dumbed down for viewer lambda to understand that is loose any coherence and credibility.
cant wait for next episode, i wonder what kind of situation they are going to think of to provide fanservices in hope to keep some watchers...

[Child_of_Sierra]

Fool proof plans eventually have flaws that show in the long run but with too much going for them: cloaking ability, superior MS, unmatched intelligence network, untraceable communications and no left behind evidence about their technology the only way CB's secrecy can be comprised is via a human element:
Setsuna F Seie, gundam meister.

By my experience, when such lines are spoken by a main character it usually involves a jaw-inspiring scene that leaves the viewer at the edge of his seat. This time though, i honestly think a "facepalm" gesture was in order.

Before that stunt with Ali and now with Marina no one outside CB had an idea about the meisters, there weren't even any leads and the 3 powers had to grasp at straws in finding out the people behind CB. If Marina ever gave credit to what he claimed it would be so easy to trace Setsuna's name back to that apartment he lives in.

I agree with Tierra ~ that boy needs to be shot in the back.

Being impulsive I can see why it was so easy for him to be tricked into killing his parents(?) to participate in war.

[qx123]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

Fool proof plans eventually have flaws that show in the long run but with too much going for them: cloaking ability, superior MS, unmatched intelligence network, untraceable communications and no left behind evidence about their technology the only way CB's secrecy can be comprised is via a human element:
Setsuna F Seie, gundam meister.

Before that stunt with Ali and now with Marina no one outside CB had an idea about the meisters, there weren't even any leads and the 3 powers had to grasp at straws in finding out the people behind CB. If Marina ever gave credit to what he claimed it would be so easy to trace Setsuna's name back to that apartment he lives in.

I agree with Tierra ~ that boy needs to be shot in the back.

Being impulsive I can see why it was so easy for him to be tricked into killing his parents(?) to participate in war.

Yes indeed. He certainly seems unfit to be gundam meister of CB. And his conduct makes him unfit for any military serve anywhere too.

This person is good for what he does. Disobey orders. And worse of all - for no good reasons.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

Fool proof plans eventually have flaws that show in the long run but with too much going for them: cloaking ability, superior MS, unmatched intelligence network, untraceable communications and no left behind evidence about their technology the only way CB's secrecy can be comprised is via a human element:
Setsuna F Seie, gundam meister.

By my experience, when such lines are spoken by a main character it usually involves a jaw-inspiring scene that leaves the viewer at the edge of his seat. This time though, i honestly think a "facepalm" gesture was in order.

Before that stunt with Ali and now with Marina no one outside CB had an idea about the meisters, there weren't even any leads and the 3 powers had to grasp at straws in finding out the people behind CB. If Marina ever gave credit to what he claimed it would be so easy to trace Setsuna's name back to that apartment he lives in.

I agree with Tierra ~ that boy needs to be shot in the back.

Being impulsive I can see why it was so easy for him to be tricked into killing his parents(?) to participate in war.

One can argue that Setsuna's recovery from his past as a child-soldier who follows every order without question, is causing a reversal in psychology; Setsuna no longer have ANY respect for authority. He did everything for Ali, then Ali betrayed him. So Setsuna now don't give a damn what anyone thinks anymore.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by dreamless

And that EXACTLY makes him stand out even more Some guy who screams "poverty-striken war-torn Middle Eastern kid" with his dress and then riding a motocycle in the street, Marina surely will notice him

So you think that she's looking for pointers on how to successfully beg for help?

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Does this sink the whole show for me? Hell No! Does it sink the episode? Not entirely. Is it the worst abomination to mankind and should Sunrise be skinned alive for making the episode? I don't think so, but judging by some peoples reactions it seems some do indeed think so.

There isn't any need to exaggerate since this is easily the worst episode of the show so far. On a more personal note, it's the only one that I didn't enjoy to certain degree.

Originally Posted by lubczyk

The series wouldn't be getting nearly as much praise if it wasn't Gundam. I think anime fans rate this show highly based on brand recognition alone: Gundam by Sunrise and all that. The point is that Gundam originated as a giant robot show that has morthed into the super robot show.

Gundam shows have always sort of been like this. On the other hand, I really don't think that Gundam 00 is getting either more praise nor more criticism just because it's a Gundam show. Certain elements are always going to bother some people more than others, so it shouldn't be a surprise to see so much difference in opinion.

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Add that with bad and jumpy pacing along with a darth of character development and you've got yourself a donut. It was a chore to watch epiosde 8 and left me feeling like I've just watched filler. I basically watch this because it's Gundam and I'm hoping it'll get better and more cohesive.

It's not really that early any more, but Gundam 00 is still firmly in exposition mode. We may get some real plot development starting with the next episode, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for it. On the other hand, it'd definitely be nice to see better character development and a more cohesive storyline.

Originally Posted by lubczyk

I'm been watching Higurashi, ef - A Tale of Memories, and CLANNAD and those shows make me feel anticipated for each new episode to come.

This might just be a matter of taste; there's no real reason for you to like Gundam 00 more than any other current show.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Gundam 00 is neither an adaptation, nor is it forced to follow any strict formula or structure, other then perhaps the common themes seen in Gundam. Being free from these you can expect the series to change perspective a lot, and given the complexity of the Gundam 00 universe, this is arguably necessary. Also Gundam 00's style of plot exposition unfortunately sticks out since right now we are all so used to a very specific style of storytelling among the prominant shows this season in the visual/light novel adaptation format.

That's not entirely it. Even for shows with extremely complex settings, I can't recall a time that the viewers have been subjected to so much infodumping.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

In my opinion the only really jarring shifts are those which seem to occur when Wang feels it necessary to finish other people's sentences. I wish they would do away with that.

Hear, hear. Add in pretty much all the commenting-to-the-TV-as-exposition stuff as well.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

As for dearth of character development, I can't really help you there, because I've seen plenty, it's just unlike many series these days. It doesn't smack you right upside the head with it.

I'd say the very opposite. The character development has been sparse so far, and it very much is of the "smack you right upside the head" variety. I do wish that it was a little more interesting.

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, Setsuna shows much more emotion than Heero's "I'll kill you", and Marina shows more common sense than Relena's "kill me". At least she showed some fear when she thought Setsuna was an assassin sent to kill her, quite rare in anime I guess

I notice that Gundam 00 employs a semi-clever technique: scenes which don't really make sense are often accompanied by characters outright saying so. Paraphrasing:

Soma - Why are we supposed to care about these attacks?
Sergei - If we don't, then we wouldn't be in this episode!

Billy - Do you think that what you're doing will accomplish anything?
Graham - Nope, not at all!

Allelujah - Why are you wearing that?
Sumeragi - Fanservice! (This one reminds me of Misato's promises of "sa-bi-su" )

Marina's bit employs the same technique; it's perhaps done with a little more subtlety, but it's really the same thing. Whether one likes it or not is mostly a question of personal taste.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I notice that Gundam 00 employs a semi-clever technique: scenes which don't really make sense are often accompanied by characters outright saying so. Paraphrasing:

Soma - Why are we supposed to care about these attacks?
Sergei - If we don't, then we wouldn't be in this episode!

Billy - Do you think that what you're doing will accomplish anything?
Graham - Nope, not at all!

Allelujah - Why are you wearing that?
Sumeragi - Fanservice! (This one reminds me of Misato's promises of "sa-bi-su" )

Marina's bit employs the same technique; it's perhaps done with a little more subtlety, but it's really the same thing. Whether one likes it or not is mostly a question of personal taste.

That's actually not so much a clever technique as much as standard tool of story telling. It's even got an official name: Lampshade Hanging.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...mpshadeHanging

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

So you think that she's looking for pointers on how to successfully beg for help?

she's obviously looking for pointers on how to successfully show off her own kindness, caring heart, incompetence and naivety. And Setsuna comes and stands out so much just for Marina to notice him

Marina's bit employs the same technique; it's perhaps done with a little more subtlety, but it's really the same thing. Whether one likes it or not is mostly a question of personal taste.

well, many anime have instances employing this technique, but the worst of how to employ it goes to Heero and Relena's "kill you" "kill me"

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

Fool proof plans eventually have flaws that show in the long run but with too much going for them: cloaking ability, superior MS, unmatched intelligence network, untraceable communications and no left behind evidence about their technology the only way CB's secrecy can be comprised is via a human element:
Setsuna F Seie, gundam meister.

By my experience, when such lines are spoken by a main character it usually involves a jaw-inspiring scene that leaves the viewer at the edge of his seat. This time though, i honestly think a "facepalm" gesture was in order.

Before that stunt with Ali and now with Marina no one outside CB had an idea about the meisters, there weren't even any leads and the 3 powers had to grasp at straws in finding out the people behind CB. If Marina ever gave credit to what he claimed it would be so easy to trace Setsuna's name back to that apartment he lives in.

I agree with Tierra ~ that boy needs to be shot in the back.

Being impulsive I can see why it was so easy for him to be tricked into killing his parents(?) to participate in war.

which makes you wonder even more how Veda, a computer, deduced that Setsuna should be one of the chosen Gundam Meisters, and based on what kind of underlying logic and programming that the computer reached this absurd result

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

That's actually not so much a clever technique as much as standard tool of story telling. It's even got an official name: Lampshade Hanging.

Heh. That's why I called it semi-clever.

Originally Posted by The Small One

But wasn't it night at some locations?

If I recall correctly, the attack in the Marshall Islands was at night, but everything else was in daylight.

Originally Posted by The Small One

When Allelujah was rescuing the civilians in the space station, he had a communication-line with Sergei and mentioned the term "Gundam Meister" and Lockon's name. The only question is, if it was really two-way communication, which wasn't really made clear during the episode.

It's very likely to be two-way communications since Setsuna didn't have any trouble hearing Ali in the very next episode.

Originally Posted by dreamless

she's obviously looking for pointers on how to successfully show off her own kindness, caring heart, incompetence and naivety.

What would be the difference between showing these off unsuccessfully as opposed to successfully?

[Sinestra]

Setsuna is like the guy in high school who you dont tell secrets to because the next day the whole school knows. Granted she didnt take him seriously but he didnt know who could have had a camera or surveillance equipment around. NEVER EVER reveal you identity i dont care if he was making a point. I will argue this fact till Armageddon . But this was one of the best episodes iv seen yet. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and as i pointed last episode the world did blame CB for the terrorist attacks the governments just used them to clean up the mess.

[X207]

lol gn particles even hav the properties of mirage colloid cloaks. it turned out to be an interesting converstation btwn marina and soran. cant wait for next ep.