Shin High School DxD Volume 4 Discussion

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

The problem is that is unknown the truth, so there are not bases to affirm it. Jormungand that is present in the story sleeps until the Ragnarock, so it is not so absurd think it.

while we do not know the specifics, current evidence would suggest its more likely that trihexa was asleep because of the seal than GoB catching it during a nap, trihexa was shown to keep attacking during a prolonged time without rest so it seems unlikely GoB just caught it whit his pants down, even then sealing a sleeping trihexa is a massive feat. if the other party being asleep made sealing something so much easier then jormungandr would of been sealed by some random magician already.

"ragnarok" as far as we know is something either said by a prophet in the norse pantheon or just something someone else made up instead of a fixed point in history. hell it might very well be something the gods had planned but never had decided to act upon. so i dont think the world has an expiration date set, much less that trihexa has a clock to tell him when to destroy stuff, it seems more likely GoB found it, sealed it and put in the bible defeated whit great red as propaganda of how cool he is.

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

We do not know how it is the politic of those mythologies as the Egyptian, remember there are old Gods that do not worry of nothing, said by Azazel.

Following the logic of human story, because it is mentioned even the 2 WW, it is normal due for the decline of their civilization for wars and other things.
Every mythology can not exit from their own territory and can not interfere in the human world. Following the story, it is normal the diffusion started with the dominion of the Roman Empire.
Furthermore because GoB is the best in the rapports with the human? He created a system of miracles and sacred gears.

For this logic, I can do the same question why Hindu mythology did not attack other mythologies.

Mention the declaration of Ddraig is not a good point, because at the beginning, for the story seemed that GoB and Maou were equal.
Then, Rias and Risee said that Boosted gear had the power to kill even GoB and Maou.

Or even vol4, when Ddraig said that himself and Albion could dominate those two.

there is a limit to everything including politics, what GoB did to the egyptian (and probably Aztec/Inca/american) pantheons was nothing short of war declaration, he literally tormented the Egyptian civilization and make them look like idiots. if they cared so little to not get offended by that then they wouldn't of have humans praise them to start whit.

pantheons not leaving their territory is a self-imposed rule, if for example a irish god shows up in italy in his full glory and destroys the vatican he will get retribution for that. not to mention GoB was going around stealing things from other factions to make god-killing weapons, its hard to believe no faction would get angered by that, if they did not act it was probably of fear of what he would do

for hindu gods there is too little information to say, indra probably would've wanted a piece of him but he probably was the only one capable of doing anything if GoB feats are anything to go by. of the trimurti we only saw shiva who seemed to give no shits about anything until he gets the green light to destroy the world, if the other two myths are anything to go by they probably would not do anything as long as GoB did not attack them directly or was a direct threat for the world. do notice however, that the only thing GoB stole from the hindu pantheon was vritra remains who was not even maou-class instead of astras

i do agree that ddraig statement was early installment weirdness but many of the things godz said are true. GoB establishing his mythology to such a level and many of his actions can be considered nothing short of crimes against other factions, if they did not retaliate or try to conquer the world themselves then it was likely due to fearing retaliation from other factions, if GoB could get away whit his shit then that speaks a lot about how much they feared him

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

Mythologies are concerned with its impact on the human world and so loki did not agree that odin will form an alliance with the three factions because he blamed them for the diminishing influence of their religion ... Then azazel tells him to blame the deceased God of the bible and not them for such a situation.
This also emphasizes shin dxd 1 at the battle site against nyx.

We also have the concern of the three factions for the death of God and that upon learning of this the other mythologies would attack them, making it clear that only the presence of God managed to keep so many mythologies at bay and keep the pseudo peace ... It can also that the Hindus have not generated conflicts because a war against God would be more lost than gain.

We also have rizevim's comment when he explained the existence of trihexa that the death of God was credible due to having such an absurd existence of how he was trihexa or that ddraig always uses God as a power rod, therefore it is absurd say that God is not top 10 ...

An extra fact in dxd dx 3, in the short history of metraton the biblical flood is mentioned and therefore the exodus (the supremacy of God against the Egyptian pantheon) had to have happened ... Which would make sense because in the juggernaut drive is said in song that God possesses supremacy and dominance.

I said that they can not interfere directly in the human story, not that they do not worry. Furthermore not every God worry about humans and we do not know which.

The civilization under the Norse mythology do not exist more directly, taking the Christianity as new religion with the integration with the Roman Empire of Occident. The only fault of Gob is the creation of it.

Trihexa is a monster of his mythologies who has created, it is not so incredible for Him find it. There are not informations about the meet with Trihexa and story said Ddraig is stronger than Gob.

A chant is not a valid motivation, furthermore if the Biblical flood is happened, it is even more incoherent because a such thing would provoke a war among every mythology. Without count that if the Apocalypse is mentioned, even the Ragnarock, however it is impossible.

It is not good use the logic to explain the cohesion with the various mythologies.

To suppose what you say, at least GoB had to be at the level of Ophis. But Ddraig said he could dominate him easily. Except that Hindu Gods is the strongest and only Indra may kill all the angels, furthermore only one god of top 10 is not enough to keep off various Gods.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

while we do not know the specifics, current evidence would suggest its more likely that trihexa was asleep because of the seal than GoB catching it during a nap, trihexa was shown to keep attacking during a prolonged time without rest so it seems unlikely GoB just caught it whit his pants down, even then sealing a sleeping trihexa is a massive feat. if the other party being asleep made sealing something so much easier then jormungandr would of been sealed by some random magician already.

"ragnarok" as far as we know is something either said by a prophet in the norse pantheon or just something someone else made up instead of a fixed point in history. hell it might very well be something the gods had planned but never had decided to act upon. so i dont think the world has an expiration date set, much less that trihexa has a clock to tell him when to destroy stuff, it seems more likely GoB found it, sealed it and put in the bible defeated whit great red as propaganda of how cool he is.

there is a limit to everything including politics, what GoB did to the egyptian (and probably Aztec/Inca/american) pantheons was nothing short of war declaration, he literally tormented the Egyptian civilization and make them look like idiots. if they cared so little to not get offended by that then they wouldn't of have humans praise them to start whit.

pantheons not leaving their territory is a self-imposed rule, if for example a irish god shows up in italy in his full glory and destroys the vatican he will get retribution for that. not to mention GoB was going around stealing things from other factions to make god-killing weapons, its hard to believe no faction would get angered by that, if they did not act it was probably of fear of what he would do

for hindu gods there is too little information to say, indra probably would've wanted a piece of him but he probably was the only one capable of doing anything if GoB feats are anything to go by. of the trimurti we only saw shiva who seemed to give no shits about anything until he gets the green light to destroy the world, if the other two myths are anything to go by they probably would not do anything as long as GoB did not attack them directly or was a direct threat for the world. do notice however, that the only thing GoB stole from the hindu pantheon was vritra remains who was not even maou-class instead of astras

i do agree that ddraig statement was early installment weirdness but many of the things godz said are true. GoB establishing his mythology to such a level and many of his actions can be considered nothing short of crimes against other factions, if they did not retaliate or try to conquer the world themselves then it was likely due to fearing retaliation from other factions, if GoB could get away whit his shit then that speaks a lot about how much they feared him

I was referring if initially Trihexa was awake or not during the first meet with Gob. It is always incredible seal it, however GoB being the creator of his same Religion and everything inside it, should knew how do it, maybe having specialties in the seals and creations, because it an expert magician and scientist.

jormungandr however for DxDÂ’s story is not even a problem during a possible Ragnarock being only dragon king class. Even because for Norse mythology he was a problem only for the size.

Ragnarock is something that in their mythology happen without the control of the Gods however, for exemple Surt would happen only during it, but actually he is fighting. Even the Apocalypse is mentioned by a Human.

What Did Gob towards the Egyptian? Furthermore those mythologies can not do nothing, the consequences are of the human story and the declines of various civilation. The Maya, for exemple has been killed by the “conquestaneros”, but it is a decision of Humans. A god can not interfere with it.

I remember now that even Sirzechs invaded the Norse territory, finding Surt. This is another problem of the story, because he was already maou. There is even the problematic of DevilÂ’s relationship in states as Japan.

Longinus were a weapon for the whole Humanity to defend their self, in part could be good for everyone. Counting that they can be gived even to humans of other religions.
However until the actual generation, they were not a danger for them.

With this discussion there are now more problems about the various mythologies

To change topic, I’ve found an old issei’s thought where he was thinking that become Maou and gather girls could be very amazing for him.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

I said that they can not interfere directly in the human story, not that they do not worry. Furthermore not every God worry about humans and we do not know which.

The civilization under the Norse mythology do not exist more directly, taking the Christianity as new religion with the integration with the Roman Empire of Occident. The only fault of Gob is the creation of it.

Trihexa is a monster of his mythologies who has created, it is not so incredible for Him find it. There are not informations about the meet with Trihexa and story said Ddraig is stronger than Gob.

A chant is not a valid motivation, furthermore if the Biblical flood is happened, it is even more incoherent because a such thing would provoke a war among every mythology. Without count that if the Apocalypse is mentioned, even the Ragnarock, however it is impossible.

It is not good use the logic to explain the cohesion with the various mythologies.

To suppose what you say, at least GoB had to be at the level of Ophis. But Ddraig said he could dominate him easily. Except that Hindu Gods is the strongest and only Indra may kill all the angels, furthermore only one god of top 10 is not enough to keep off various Gods.

DxD dx 2 ninja
"A familiar laughter rang around the area. The person that appeared in front of us is a weirdo who’s wearing armour, a helmet and a cape!

That eye patch and the beard! An axe and shield in his hands! He is a pervert that looks like a mini boss from old school tokusatsu shows! I know that guy! I know him from the time when I went to Grigori! T-T-This old man… Armaros-san, one of the leaders of Grigori I met back then!

What is Armaros-san doing here?! Especially with fighters with him! Armaros-san pointed his axe at the Ninja-Angel Metatron-san.

“Guhahahaha! I will take your life while at it, Ninja-Angel Metatrooooooon!”

“Armaros! You again!”

Metatron-san also took his sword out when he saw Armaros-san!

Armaros-san also kept swinging his axe while shouting

“Of course! You are the person with an ill-fated relationship with the mighty Grigooooori! I will finally finish you off here!”

I-Ill-fated relation? I asked Rias.

“… That Ninja-Angel-san, does he have a bad relationship with Sensei’s organisation?”

“…Yes. According to what is written in the Bible regarding Noah’s ark, it seem like they were on bad terms since the Great Flood.”

Written in the Bible. Having a bad relationship since Noah’s Ark…?!"

The great flood occurred in dxd, so if something as absurd as the great flood occurred, then it is not so crazy that the exodus has existed ...

DxD volumen 4 valhalla
"
“—And that is the report from Michael-dono, Odin-sama.”

“These youngsters have sprung back up. It’s a bold thing pretending to be God, that damn Michael.” (!)

“What shall we do? It was unexpected that the God recorded in the Holy Bible has died.”

“Really, with that youngster Michael, that fake Lucifer and that naughty kid Azazel, it’s a play gathering of little brats.”

“Then, shall we teach those youngsters what we, the Asgard, the true Gods, are like?”

“Freyr, I won’t be able to respond to a war engulfing the world after so long with my old body. However, the earnestness of these youngsters is interesting. I’ll go watch the Rating Games of the Devils.”

“They do seem interesting, don’t they?”

“It does seem fun. The struggling of these youngsters who have lost their God. Now then, what will they do from now on?”

The god freyr was willing to go to war against the three factions upon learning of the death of God, proving that the fear of the three factions that other mythologies would learn of the death of God was true and also that it was true that the presence of God kept at bay a mythology like the Nordic (with three top 10)

So God was a pretty powerful existence, but there is also ddraig's statement about being as strong as God in early volumes, which has two possible explanations ... The first that ichie originally planned for ddraig and albion to be stronger behind the dragon gods or that God was the ultimate technical type, a technical type that outshone other types or gods like nezha.

ps: if I'm not mistaken, surt was abandoned by the Nordics and most likely exiled to the dimensional gap so that he died there by his own flames ... also that in a short story it was revealed that some of the leaders of the three factions arrived to japan with the portuguese missionaries (like azazel, who spent a lot of time unnoticed as a tengu)

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

I was referring if initially Trihexa was awake or not during the first meet with Gob. It is always incredible seal it, however GoB being the creator of his same Religion and everything inside it, should knew how do it, maybe having specialties in the seals and creations, because it an expert magician and scientist.

jormungandr however for DxDÂ’s story is not even a problem during a possible Ragnarock being only dragon king class. Even because for Norse mythology he was a problem only for the size.

Ragnarock is something that in their mythology happen without the control of the Gods however, for exemple Surt would happen only during it, but actually he is fighting. Even the Apocalypse is mentioned by a Human.

What Did Gob towards the Egyptian? Furthermore those mythologies can not do nothing, the consequences are of the human story and the declines of various civilation. The Maya, for exemple has been killed by the “conquestaneros”, but it is a decision of Humans. A god can not interfere with it.

I remember now that even Sirzechs invaded the Norse territory, finding Surt. This is another problem of the story, because he was already maou. There is even the problematic of DevilÂ’s relationship in states as Japan.

Longinus were a weapon for the whole Humanity to defend their self, in part could be good for everyone. Counting that they can be gived even to humans of other religions.
However until the actual generation, they were not a danger for them.

With this discussion there are now more problems about the various mythologies

To change topic, I’ve found an old issei’s though where he was thinking that become Maou and have a harem could be very interesting for him.

we have no reason to believe GoB found it asleep, in fact evidence seems to suggest trihexa does not even sleeps since they have to take turns against it instead of fighting until it falls asleep again to take their rest. there is also the part where trihexa awoken the instant the seals were undone without any outside stimuli

trihexa is never said to be created or related by the god of the bible, sure it appears in the bible but so does great red and its clear GoB did not create it. just it being part of its mythology does not mean he knows about it, odin is the leader of his pantheon but he has no omniscience about it and during loki attack the one that tells them about gleipnir is midgarsormr, not him. even if he is an expert in seals that would still require monumental power that is at the very least top 10 strongest worthy.

ragnarok for all we know is something made up by the norse side, not something destined to happen. there is no set time for the end of the world, it will happen eventually but there is no metaphorical clock that cant be delayed counting down, the ending of the world is a fact, everything must end but no one has any way of knowing when. trihexa has no way to know when is the end of the world, it just wants to end it out of apparent destructive instincts

GoB did IIRC 1. kill all egyptian crops and animals or most of them 2. kill the sons of many of the egyptians 3. send a plague of locusts among other plagues 4. have moses say that the egyptian gods are powerless before GoB to the pharaoh face only to show it later. lets pretend the egyptian gods really dont give a shit about their civilization, even then GoB went out of their way to insult them and call them inferior and powerless before his might, he directly talked shit about them. to put an example, lets say you have a gold fish you dont care about and someone breaks into your house, kills the gold fish, shits on your floor, sets your house on fire, insults you and leaves. sure you dont care about the gold fish but would you honestly just stay there and say nothing?

the thing whit surtr cant really be compared, sirzechs entered enemy territory and took whit him something they considered a failure and left to die. GoB invaded other pantheons territory whit his armies, stole their shit, insulted them and claimed the place as his. one is a guy stealing from the other trashcan, the other is straight up vandalism and declaration of war. the devils in japan can be explained easily, they have some territories probably because japan having Christianity and the shinto pantheon has been stated to not care about japan territory much, only about their temples

its not only him making the longinus, in many cases for his sacred gear he stole things that belonged to others. the nemean lion for example, or how GoB straight up stole the sword of a major shinto deity for canis lykaon. yes other factions can get their own longinus wielders but if GoB was alive he would be perfectly able to take the longinus away and giving it to someone on his side. and making god-killing weapons is a big deal, especially when he knows fully how they work, he could easily give a powerful guy a BG, send them to enemy territory and trigger a JD which would cause massive damage.

many gods in canon went to fight issei for less reasons than what GoB did. GoB might very well be a supernatural yakuza expanding his territory in enemy mafia land.

they will have to change rules since if i remember right maous cant have harems, but IMO being a maou fits perfectly for issei harem dreams. get someone else to do the minor stuff like paperwork and use the political position to not have to deal whit every two bit villain that wants to do something. if falbium is anything to go by a maou issei might slack all day and spend time whit his harem while male subordinates do the work

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by godz

ps: if I'm not mistaken, surt was abandoned by the Nordics and most likely exiled to the dimensional gap so that he died there by his own flames ... also that in a short story it was revealed that some of the leaders of the three factions arrived to japan with the portuguese missionaries (like azazel, who spent a lot of time unnoticed as a tengu)

i want a link for this short story, it legit sounds interesting

[godz]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

i want a link for this short story, it legit sounds interesting

It was an untranslated crossovers in dxd and oda nobunaga, where issei meets the descendants of the oda nobunaga characters ... which might not be considered canon if these descendants reappeared in dxd DX 5 and issei recognized them.

[saucerKing]

does it have a name at least so i can search it or a summary somewhere online?

[Itsmepatrick]

This God of Bible have some similarities with Ajuka in the fact that they we're both master Investor and are Ultimate Technique type fighter.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

This God of Bible have some similarities with Ajuka in the fact that they we're both master Investor and are Ultimate Technique type fighter.

We have no idea how God of the Bible fights.

And we don't know if God of the Bible was an inventor. Invention and creation are not always the same thing.

[Marvix]

Umm bro. GOD invented Sacred Gears.

[saucerKing]

he also invented the system that keeps them and miracles among other things working, a whole full species and probably other things, god definitely was an inventor.

[Itsmepatrick]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

We have no idea how God of the Bible fights.

And we don't know if God of the Bible was an inventor. Invention and creation are not always the same thing.

God of the Bible is the one who invented Sacred Gears specifically the Sacred Gear System and he is also the one who invented the Holy System Control which govern miracles for the sake of the humanity .Lastly he is the one who invented Holy swords to bestow upon humans. Now on to his fighting style he is more or less a magic user and he specializes in Sealing Magic and his feats are so great that he single - handedly placed thousands of forbidden seal Trihexa which has the power comparable to Great Red and Ophis .He also sealed creatures like Draig, Albion, Regulus , and Lycaon in Sacred Gears.

[Itsmepatrick]

Ajuka is also a Master Inventor as he invented the Evil Pieces System which saves the Devil Race from being extinct and allowing them to repopulate. He also Invented the King Pieces which the function of enhancing the power of an individual in the magnitude of 10 to 100 times.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Ajuka is also a Master Inventor as he invented the Evil Pieces System which saves the Devil Race from being extinct and allowing them to repopulate. He also Invented the King Pieces which the function of enhancing the power of an individual in the magnitude of 10 to 100 times.

There are even the Rating games that are a way to increase the Devil’s strength, becoming a fundamental “sport” or “event” for all the devil’s society and the world already now with Azazel Cup.

In Ex, he created a magic to travel in the past and he created (trough a Longinus) a new world. I forgot that the separate dimension where you fight in a RG is a his invention.

Indeed Sirzechs used that space to his true form.

[godz]

ajuka to be able to travel in the past, the abilities that grant the longinus of gasper were used and that is why gasper was in charge of monitoring the time travel ... so those last two were with the help of an instrument created by God (a practical example of this situation, let's say that God created the internet and ajuka created google)

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

God of the Bible is the one who invented Sacred Gears specifically the Sacred Gear System and he is also the one who invented the Holy System Control which govern miracles for the sake of the humanity .Lastly he is the one who invented Holy swords to bestow upon humans. Now on to his fighting style he is more or less a magic user and he specializes in Sealing Magic and his feats are so great that he single - handedly placed thousands of forbidden seal Trihexa which has the power comparable to Great Red and Ophis .He also sealed creatures like Draig, Albion, Regulus , and Lycaon in Sacred Gears.

God of the Bible didn't create holy swords.

The problem I have with calling God of the Bible an inventor is that he created things that couldn't just be put under the label of invention like the Sacred Gear system that bestows Sacred Gears to humans at random it seems. And creating the angels doesn't really seem to fit under 'invention' unless you want to call Lilith an inventor. Considering that he was a god and how a lot of them seem to have some hax powers, 'creator' seems more like an accurate description in my view.

I would call God of the Bible a creator more than an inventor unless you think that Azazel could create something as complex as the Sacred Gear system. Not Sacred Gears, but the system itself that grants Sacred Gears to humans.

[saucerKing]

but the system he made is an invention, not something he made out of nowhere, he had to program it and as far as we know its not even finished nor are SG. if he had simply created it in a puff of smoke the whole system would be finished and so would be sacred gears but that is clearly not the case since according to azazel balance breaker is a bug and sacred gears some times kill their user instead of actually helping.

the creation of the angels does count, lilith case is not comparable, she gave birth to the devils trough a semi-biological way, god as far as we know did not literally give birth to the angels. also again one cannot create something if one has absolutely no idea how they work, angels are not just a mass of light in human shape, they are fully biological beings whit working organs and the such. what god did is closer to literally making a meat robot

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

but the system he made is an invention, not something he made out of nowhere, he had to program it and as far as we know its not even finished nor are SG. if he had simply created it in a puff of smoke the whole system would be finished and so would be sacred gears but that is clearly not the case since according to azazel balance breaker is a bug and sacred gears some times kill their user instead of actually helping.

the creation of the angels does count, lilith case is not comparable, she gave birth to the devils trough a semi-biological way, god as far as we know did not literally give birth to the angels. also again one cannot create something if one has absolutely no idea how they work, angels are not just a mass of light in human shape, they are fully biological beings whit working organs and the such. what god did is closer to literally making a meat robot

The problem is that we don't know how he created it and I don't see anyone other than a god being able to create something that complex. It's more akin to a miracle than an invention in my view. Even though numerous bugs did appear after his death.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

The problem is that we don't know how he created it and I don't see anyone other than a god being able to create something that complex. It's more akin to a miracle than an invention in my view. Even though numerous bugs did appear after his death.

yet no other god created it, again the system made by god is something that was not just created it in a moment but something he had to develop hence why it has bugs, what changed after he died is that since michael cant run the thing well enough there are even more bugs