[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 415 Discussion

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Marka13

I can understand people being frustrated with how fast it took to read the chapter, and while it was a pretty disappointing chapter (especially after the one before) but it takes a lot of skill to tell a story without dialogue and I think Kubo did a pretty good job in that aspect

I honestly don't agree. The difficult part of telling story without dialogue is getting across emotion, and outside of Aizen's raegfest (which had dialogue, as it was), there pretty much wasn't any emotion (Gin doesn't really emote...).

As long as the art is legible (which is troublesome enough with Bleach on a good day), it's fairly simple to get across information without dialogue, which we did get a fair bit of, but...

All we got out of this was that Gin once saw some guys rough up Boin-chan and then talk to Aizen; Aizen took/gave something from/to them and had something that looked like the hougyoku long before he should have; Gin apparently decided to take revenge on Aizen for being those guys' leader (again, dialogue, when it really wasn't necessary); and in the present time, Gin took the hougyoku, ran away, reminisced, and then got gutted by an atrociously-drawn ButterflAizen (seriously on the last part, we're going to have to wait for the anime to catch up to see what he's really supposed to look like). The only part of that that wasn't ham-handedly obvious or needlessly vague was the part about the guys roughing up Boin-chan, which was admittedly well done.

And I don't think it's a third eye. I think it's an overt attempt to add some deity-level cred and badassedness by making him look more like Dr. Manhattan (it didn't overcome the butterfly wings). If he's blue in the anime, we'll know I'm right.

Originally Posted by ShadowSeed

Oh cool.

Aizen raged because he was fragged, now he abuses his godmode even further....
Ichigo better come and permaban him with his h4x Resurreccion Final Kuroi Getsuga Tensho.
Gin was never one of my favouritse tbh, but it's kinda sad he used his only shot at Admin Abuser Aizen for nothing.
Rangiku was probably raped by the shinigami bowing to Aizen. That's all i really cared about the flashbacks. I really start thinking of how this story will develop, rather than what it is now, because right now it's......lame.


In these chapters, i think that Aizen was actually suppressing his reiatsu. I mean, he is so powerful if he wouldn't control it, the Karakura town would just die from the reiatsu fallout, and he couldn't make the King's Key.
But Ichigo can't control it.
I.E Ichigo goes Super Admin (also known as Ichigo Bankai+Resurreccion forme) --> He can't suppress it --> He kills Karakura.

I think this might be the case. Ishida mentioned several times that Ichigo can't control his reiatsu. Tatsuki might survive if she goes to the far borders, but she might be just around the only one. Normal humans will be dead from the huge, almost nuclear reiatsu fallout Ichigo's super powers create. He will be like a human version of Starrk =(

How sad would that be now?

I suggested several chapters ago that part of Aizen's plan is to have K-town destroyed in the battle between him and Ichigo. I doubt I was the first to suggest it.

[ShadowSeed]

I suggested several chapters ago that part of Aizen's plan is to have K-town destroyed in the battle between him and Ichigo. I doubt I was the first to suggest it.

I meant unintentionally. Ichigo can't control his reaitsu, so he spills the beans in Aizen's ceremony he is doing when Ichigo arrives. The King's Key is left half-finished as Ichigo's hax reiatsu kills everyone instead of transferring the souls to the King's Key.

What you said is that Aizen counts on it. I said it would actually fuck Aizen's plans up seriously.

[Mr. DJ]

some slightly interesting development, I do believe this is the first time we saw Aizen really pissed off

[xellos2099]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

what a headbanger chapter

- stupid motive for Gin for no reason
- Aizen had a hougyoku prototype?
- no text at all
- no backgrounds at all

Am I to believe Kubo is even more lazy than I?

Well, remember Aizen was performing hybrid experiment before the reveal of hougyoku. I mean Shinji and the rest WAS infected with "something" to cause them to have mask other than hougyoku. Byt I swear, he get stronger EVERYTIME someone seems to beat him.

[uytre]

gosh Gin should have been the main character, instead of pussy ass ichigo

[Hunter6VI6]

If he stabbed Matsumoto to save her...

Then did he cut Hiyori in half to save her from Aizen too?

[TheRime]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Somehow I get the impression, that most of the people here are judging Gin's motives completely wrong, thinking that he wanted to take revenge for Rangiku.
Gin explained his motives already: He just wants to have fun, killing the strongest opponents. This flashback was just there to show the moment, he realized that Aizen has to be the ultimate target, since he is the one everyone follows.
It looks like this was his first meeting with Rangiku, and he isn't the type to care for someone wounded.

huh.... that actually makes sense. I think it's true that it IS the first time Gin and Ran met, cuz he's wearing that outfit and seems to be carrying the persimmons in his arms. But it might be the SECOND time he's seen Aizen and those particular goons, cuz his outfit is different from the 1st flashback, when he's wearing white. So... either he's really really chivalrous enough to vow revenge for a complete stranger, or he just kinda thought "oooh, those ppl just beat up a girl. their boss looks cool. I'm gonna make him my ulitmate target. "

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by ShadowSeed

I meant unintentionally. Ichigo can't control his reaitsu, so he spills the beans in Aizen's ceremony he is doing when Ichigo arrives. The King's Key is left half-finished as Ichigo's hax reiatsu kills everyone instead of transferring the souls to the King's Key.

What you said is that Aizen counts on it. I said it would actually fuck Aizen's plans up seriously.

Well, if everybody dies, their souls are free to be sucked up by whatever Aizen has prepared to suck them up, no matter how they're killed.

Originally Posted by Hunter6VI6

If he stabbed Matsumoto to save her...

Then did he cut Hiyori in half to save her from Aizen too?

It worked, didn't it?

[Hunter6VI6]

Haha I suppose so...

[typhonsentra]

Holy crap, that chapter took... maybe a minute to "read"?

I'm so sick of these "Haha, did you think it was over!?" plot devices. This comic uses it so often it's hardly shocking or interesting at this point.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Somehow I get the impression, that most of the people here are judging Gin's motives completely wrong, thinking that he wanted to take revenge for Rangiku.
Gin explained his motives already: He just wants to have fun, killing the strongest opponents. This flashback was just there to show the moment, he realized that Aizen has to be the ultimate target, since he is the one everyone follows.
It looks like this was his first meeting with Rangiku, and he isn't the type to care for someone wounded.

No... you have just been completely fooled by Gin's fox mask
What Gin told Aizen is just a load of bull he made up because he prefers to keep up the mask rather than admit his true intentions. (though their might be SOME truth to it)

Look at the way Gin looks at the little orb in his hand as he says "it's over"... That's not the demeanor of a murderous psycho that did this all for fun; that is the look of a man who has just finished a very trying a difficult ordeal. If he did this just for fun, he would probably laughing or at the very least grinning from ear to ear over his grand victory...

Not to mention that he had no reason to conclude that Aizen was the stronges from that particular moment... sure those goons follow him, but he himself showed himself to follow Yamaji, and Yamaji has the loyalty of nearly all of SS... with a man like Yamaji around, there is no reason for Gin to make his decision just because he saw a few weak goons.

It's clear how that flashback played out... Gin saw a beaten up Matsumoto, as the goons were leaving, he connected one of those goons to the ones he saw with Aizen, and thus concluded that Aizen is the one that must pay... I mean, if the point of the flashback was Gin thinking Aizen was strong, then why even bother putting in matsumoto? she's completely irrelevant to Aizen; would it not be more effective to show someone really strong beaten to a pulp as opposed to a little girl?... it would be effective to show gin witnessing Aizen's strength or commanding the thousands of goons

[Chiisai Kuma]

Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger

I enjoyed this chapter immensely. Kubo just tops himself each chapter .

Even more amusing is how everyone in the thread just gave up on making any sense of this and is just enjoying the show by making humourous comparisons to "Butterflaizen"

So true.. first time i read the spoilers for this chpt i enjoyed the manga so much I fell on the floor laughing (sounding alot like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvBzAcj06fI ) It was mental

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

No... you have just been completely fooled by Gin's fox mask
What Gin told Aizen is just a load of bull he made up because he prefers to keep up the mask rather than admit his true intentions. (though their might be SOME truth to it)

Look at the way Gin looks at the little orb in his hand as he says "it's over"... That's not the demeanor of a murderous psycho that did this all for fun; that is the look of a man who has just finished a very trying a difficult ordeal. If he did this just for fun, he would probably laughing or at the very least grinning from ear to ear over his grand victory...

I think you're right that it's doubtful Gin targeted Aizen simply for fun. However, I agree with Small One that the idea Gin planned all this just in order to avenge Matsumoto doesn't sit right. I mean Aizen had her knocked out with a few bruises by the looks of it, but Gin just stabbed her in the chest and left her unconscious a few minutes ago.

That would mean Gin may have nearly killed Matsumoto just now so he could go get revenge against Aizen for...badly injuring Matsumoto...

anyone else think that doesn't make much sense? Not to mention, from what we've seen of other characters' memories growing up in the Rukongai, what happened to Matsumoto shouldn't have been all that uncommon of a thing to see.

Personally, I think the whole scene almost make it seem like Gin wasn't randomly there at all. It was more like he was confirming Aizen as a target he had already been looking for rather than deciding on the spot that he was a target.

[Marka13]

Originally Posted by The Small One

It looks like this was his first meeting with Rangiku, and he isn't the type to care for someone wounded.

In the panel after you get a close up of the beat up Rangiku you can see that Gin's face is concerned making me think that he does care about a wounded stranger

[TheRime]

Originally Posted by Marka13

In the panel after you get a close up of the beat up Rangiku you can see that Gin's face in concerned making me think that he does care about a wounded stranger

unless.... she wasn't actually wounded. Maybe she only did that "fainting thing" that ppl do when other ppl with strong spiritual energy are near. You know, that thing where someone strong passes by and you collapse, especially if you're hungry. (I think the same thing happened to Rukia?) And it only works if the "victim" has strong spirit energy too. Which is why, when we see him later feeding her saying "if you can faint from hunger, then you must have it too, right? the power." or something....

And Gin didn't faint probably cuz he's been munching persimmons, so he wasn't hungry. And he looked concerned for her cuz she was the reason that he got intersted in Aizen, cuz he figured Aizen must be pretty strong to make someone keel over like that.

maybe...

[sayde]

To be honest, I don't think Gin has held a grudge towards Aizen and his men for whatever they may have done to Matsumoto. Instead, I'm inclined to agree with the idea that he simply decided to make Aizen his ultimate target. Especially if we're to take what Gin said to Aizen seriously. For Gin himself has just gone on record for saying that he's an emotionless being who searches for tasty prey to swallow. So if his only main motivation lies in hunting tasty prey, than targeting Aizen as his ultimate goal actually makes sense.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Look at the way Gin looks at the little orb in his hand as he says "it's over"... That's not the demeanor of a murderous psycho that did this all for fun; that is the look of a man who has just finished a very trying a difficult ordeal. If he did this just for fun, he would probably laughing or at the very least grinning from ear to ear over his grand victory...

Perhaps, but not necessarily. For Gin to have just succeeded taking down the man he perceived to be the strongest being ever after over a century of plotting, that look on his face could've meant a lot things. For instance, perhaps the look came from emotions of shock and emptiness -- shock over the fact that his goal had finally come to pass, and emptiness over the realization that there's nothing as tasty left to consume (neither in SS, HM, or the real world). Plus, if the entire ordeal was truly as trying an experience as you claimed (which I have no doubt it was), then it's also possible that he may not have been in the laughing mood at the moment since killing Aizen = serious business.

Originally Posted by TheRime

unless.... she wasn't actually wounded. Maybe she only did that "fainting thing" that ppl do when other ppl with strong spiritual energy are near. You know, that thing where someone strong passes by and you collapse, especially if you're hungry. (I think the same thing happened to Rukia?) And it only works if the "victim" has strong spirit energy too. Which is why, when we see him later feeding her saying "if you can faint from hunger, then you must have it too, right? the power." or something....

And Gin didn't faint probably cuz he's been munching persimmons, so he wasn't hungry. And he looked concerned for her cuz she was the reason that he got intersted in Aizen, cuz he figured Aizen must be pretty strong to make someone keel over like that.

maybe...

I like it.

[spikexp]

- Aizen got piss-off, and it was so good to see like that (before he got a new powerup :/ )

Does I'm the only one to think Gin look scared from what happen (page 10 last panel)?

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by sayde

To be honest, I don't think Gin has held a grudge towards Aizen and his men for whatever they may have done to Matsumoto. Instead, I'm inclined to agree with the idea that he simply decided to make Aizen his ultimate target. Especially if we're to take what Gin said to Aizen seriously. For Gin himself has just gone on record for saying that he's an emotionless being who searches for tasty prey to swallow. So if his only main motivation lies in hunting tasty prey, than targeting Aizen as his ultimate goal actually makes sense.

I would take with a grain of salt anything Gin says to Aizen seconds before putting a sword through him.

As for next week, look for the Gin that Aizen "killed" to be some kind of decoy. Either Gin decided to plotkai himself a new ability or something, or got help from Matsumoto...

Of course, we probably won't know that next week, because I feel it's time to go back to Hueco Mundo and waste some more time on Yamm-zilla.

[iBeast]

Originally Posted by spikexp

- Aizen got piss-off, and it was so good to see like that (before he got a new powerup :/ )

Does I'm the only one to think Gin look scared from what happen (page 10 last panel)?

Lol Gin is shooked. Hopefully he finally opens his eyes and keeps them open or he's dead in 10 seconds.

[Alchemist007]

Au contraire, if he opens them, he's lost his cool, and thus is dead.