2010-09-14, 05:07 | Link #2621 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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So instead of saying, "You're wrong and you're an asshole", I'd rather say "In my opinion, you're wrong and you're an asshole".
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2010-09-14, 07:04 | Link #2622 | ||
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2010-09-14, 07:28 | Link #2623 | |
Protecting the Throne
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 32
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If people choose to decide to go on and believe their own opinions are true, then that's fine with me. Just as you guys mentioned, respect is an important key factor when handling differing views.
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2010-09-14, 12:06 | Link #2624 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Faith in itself is irrational but I don't neccessarily think there's anything wrong with irrational unless it harms people. Then again, what people think qualifies as 'harming' something can also differ...
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2010-09-14, 14:58 | Link #2626 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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but i also respect opinions for peace and understanding Quote:
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Note: im constantly revising and fixing spelling errors and ect, so refresh if your reading this about the time ive revised this long long long long long article...
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Last edited by Heiwatsuki; 2010-09-14 at 15:29. |
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2010-09-14, 16:27 | Link #2627 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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As for your color blind analogy, I think it falls short of describing the faith involved in a religion. It's more about accepting someone's testimony without actually being there yourself. And lastly, I think there will always be some doubt regarding certain (if not all) parts of a religion along the way. That's why religion is more than just going to church every Sunday (to take an example from Christianity). It's about living your everyday life while dealing with doubt and faith. |
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2010-09-14, 17:59 | Link #2628 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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if your belieiving in something that may be a lie(refering to bible),it is no different than someone belieiving a lier saying i do not lie. when i told my friend i was an athiest, he showed me a verse in the bible that said only fools do not believe in god,or something like that, in order words he was trying to prove to me god existed by showing me a verse from the very thing in which i was trying to prove wrong, which is immensly stupid, believers may consider it true. but in reality, its not ''true'' if its faith. Faith is the belief in something thats doubtable only because their personality thinks that it maybe be true. the bible is merely stating the full potential of a believer. faith can and cannot be completly certain and theres a extent to faith.. just believing doesnt prove anything. and the point behind my color blind anology is that believing doesnt make it real. from what you said, your saying that just because you accept it to be true, then its real. if you were looking at the view of everyone as a whole, then religion wouldnt be considered true because its based on faith aka a belief. but if you were looking at the view of a single person then its possible for that belief to be true only to yourself. and also, dont be using the subject itself as something to support your opinion. supporting your opinion through the use of the thing that the other person is arguing about doesnt make sense. ex: if i was trying to prove why a religion is false and the other person is supporting this reasons by saying god is almighty and holy, who do you think created the universe? baseless opinions like that fail in a logical arguement... anyway, basic summary...
Pure belief isnt enough for it to be deemed a fact/true. the only place where its considered true is in your own mind where the laws of the world are your own. the bible only tells the full potential of faith based on the view on christianity. in other words sending believers a message. please dont use bias information. but i do understand you rpoint. but using something like that doesnt prove that just believing makes it true. when you are in a sensible and logical arguement, you should never base anything you say on a opinion and you should instead understand the other sides view. and just believing the opinion is true doesnt make it true...
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2010-09-14, 19:52 | Link #2629 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Now, you're free to reject a particular or any religion as being true. But if your only reason for doing so is simply because you do not accept that faith can be a valid reason to consider something as being true, then that's really irrelevant to those who do believe. Quote:
You kept saying how religion cannot be considered true because it is based on faith. And all I was trying to show by that verse is that people can consider religion to be true precisely because of faith. As you say yourself: Quote:
To say that a religious person should not act like their religion is real simply because it's based on faith would be to completely miss the point of faith in the first place. On the other hand, if you don't believe, then you don't believe. That's all there is to it as far as faith is concerned. |
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2010-09-14, 20:43 | Link #2630 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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There's a difference between having faith, and blindly accepting something as true. Faith is a calculated risk, where you say "I might not be right, but I'm throwing in with (x party) because I have faith in it". You can't go on claiming it is 'true to a person' just because you adhere to that faith.
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2010-09-14, 21:22 | Link #2631 | |
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2010-09-14, 21:30 | Link #2632 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Basically, the instant you use "faith" as a prerequisite or axiom - you've tossed out the scientific method, principles of logic, and critical analysis. You're relying on either your own intuitive revelation or blindly following someone who claims to have gotten that special information. Such a tack may be good for you or bad, depending on the content of that revelation or of the motivations of the leader who is presenting it.
Folk religion tends to be organic and consensus religion - representing the best guess of the community on their place in the universe around them. The more hierarchical a religion gets... the more likely it will tend toward "corporate" or "statist" policies that aren't necessarily in the community or individual favor. Over the years, I've evolved away from structured/doctrinal religion and towards a mix of animist/naturalist view with a splash of practical buddhism. The universe is a very interesting place with lots of forces that may or may not have anthropomorphic tendencies. A casual modicum of respect for those forces isn't a bad idea (even if it just means acknowledging them when events warrant; e.g. changing of the seasons, etc). The practical aspects of buddhism (examination/meditation, compassion, etc) are useful tools for daily living.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2010-09-14 at 21:41. |
2010-09-14, 21:31 | Link #2633 | |
~Official Slacker~
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Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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2010-09-14, 21:43 | Link #2634 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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But anyway, I'll say it again: Yes, religion doesn't rely solely on the scientific method, etc. Although that is not to say, you can't use principles of logic, etc. to analyze certain parts of the religion. It's just that faith is also counted. And indeed, certain things in a religion require faith. |
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2010-09-14, 22:45 | Link #2635 |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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I'm a baptist, and as a good baptist man I gotta tell my old buddy monstert, bro, ya gotta get a new avatar^^...Ya gotta baptize that little magic marvin the martian dude in a pond of holy pixel-rates...C'mon buddy, it's been 5 years...
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Last edited by wingdarkness; 2010-09-15 at 00:19. |
2010-09-14, 22:51 | Link #2636 | |
Protecting the Throne
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 32
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*Sigh* faith is all just a different definition to everyone I guess.
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2010-09-14, 23:36 | Link #2637 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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If I assert in the beginning that pixies make the world work, the rest of my model may be tenuous. I'm not saying faith is a bad thing - just that one has to recognize which pieces of your reality are faith and which aren't. I have more confidence in a model where the pixies are an explanation rather than a given. This is how I approach things... ymmv.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2010-09-14 at 23:59. |
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2010-09-15, 12:15 | Link #2638 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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But if you think of religion as the most people does, yes, you can say that because there are a few people who thinks about their beliefs. About the question, I believe in Maradona. |
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2010-09-15, 12:18 | Link #2639 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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To me what you're describing is 'trust' rather than 'faith'.
[edit] I'm trying to look up Philosophers views on faith such as one model Alvin Plantinga suggested (If I recall it was basically Foundationalism with a religious over-coat) but IE 8.0 is spazing out. -____-'
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2010-09-15, 12:25 | Link #2640 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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Call it one of the limitations of Philosophy. Every major Christian Theologists from Anselm to Aquinas to Lewis admitted in some form that these were at most logical deductions under the assumption that if the Necessary Existence was rationally and logically sound, then it must therefore exist. While Anselm used ontology and Aquinas used teleology, the end assumption is the same.
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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