AnimeSuki Forums

chronotrig · 2009-07-09, 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercurius

In order to truly succeed as an adaptation, imo, the anime needs to either a) include the background info and character development or b) start creating its own style and stop relying on copy-pasta'ing media from the source.

Unfortunately, the first is impossible because it would be way too long and the first half of each episode would drag on. The second is also impossible because the games are only half written. If they take any liberties with the storytelling, there's a good chance you end up with something that has no resemblance whatsoever to the original. Also, the second would mean they'd have to tell a story that's at least as good as the one Ryuukishi wrote. There aren't many writers who can do that in this particular genre.

Basically, the writers for the anime are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and we won't know whether they've managed to wriggle out until the anime series is finished.

felix · 2009-07-09, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercurius

My two cents on the whole adaptation thing - a proper adaptation imo can be done in one of two ways: either it follows the source to the T, or creates something unique that captures the essence of the source. The problem I have with the Umineko anime is that it's riding the fence: it uses the same music, almost the exact same wording in the dialog, and even Beatrice's portrait is a direct copy from the novel. But, it is cutting out a significant portion of background info that really gave the novel its essence and character. In order to truly succeed as an adaptation, imo, the anime needs to either a) include the background info and character development or b) start creating its own style and stop relying on copy-pasta'ing media from the source.

How can you even consider that a option! (lol)

Freelii · 2009-07-09, 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christen

Maybe they meant it as this scene was taking place earlier. But maybe it was intended? I'm not sure what to make of it. It can't just be a simple continuity error.

I'm almost worried they are hinting at a certain something too soon. I'm tempted to go back and replay these scenes in Episode 1 and check if the clock there was a bit weird as well.

Mercurius · 2009-07-09, 02:32

Long winded rant:

Spoiler for a or b:

Back on topic, it looks like a bit of censoring is popping up. Which were the channels that were airing it uncensored (or at least not as badly)?

tcaz2 · 2009-07-09, 02:53

I give the episode a 7, as a VN player.

Honestly, I enjoyed the episode itself... but I agree with what Klashikari is saying a lot. Enjoyment factor was probably about a 8.5, but I just can't give it more than a 7 because of a nagging feeling in the back of my head because of all the stuff they left out.

Contradictory, perhaps... but I really have mixed feelings on both this and the first episode so far. At least we pretty much have to slow down now because of how much they covered in the first two episodes (something like 10-11 chapters? That's nuts.)

So yeah, still really looking forward to episodes but dreading what they'll cut all the same.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-09, 03:12

Subs are out by gg.

Will watch it after I go to the gym lol.

Freelii · 2009-07-09, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercurius

Back on topic, it looks like a bit of censoring is popping up. Which were the channels that were airing it uncensored (or at least not as badly)?

Both the raw and subbed versions that I saw had no censoring, unless you are referring to the darkening of few shots..?

felix · 2009-07-09, 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freelii

Both the raw and subbed versions that I saw had no censoring, unless you are referring to the darkening of few shots..?

"Artistic touch" =P Well it would be boring if they basically showed some autopsy or something.
We only really need to know (for sure) their dead.

Now on a related note, is the Maria we see the Maria we know from the first episode. She seems different.

Ithekro · 2009-07-09, 03:30

It is about on the edge of disturbing really. While the faces are in the shadows, they are not censored. The room is just dark in general. Someone put up the brightness form one frame...it is not pretty.

No bleeping either. Though I don't know of any words they may have tried to bleep.

And Maria is creepy when she wants to be creepy.

Mercurius · 2009-07-09, 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freelii

Both the raw and subbed versions that I saw had no censoring, unless you are referring to the darkening of few shots..?

Yup, which I guess is about as bad Higurashi got, and even then that scene was still pretty gruesome.

Oh, and one other observation:

Spoiler for alibis:

And yes, creepy Maria is creepy. Didn't know Hocchan had it in her.

felix · 2009-07-09, 03:33

Ithekro, they have been dead for 6 hours, I believe coagulation or whatever its called has set in and its hard for those mutilated, as they may be, bodies to bleed any longer.

zato_1one · 2009-07-09, 04:57

Just finished watching sub, I think it's better than I thought. Although they should at least develop or give more info about Natsuhi's background. That would help the audiences to know how precious it was for Natsuhi when Kinzo gave those speeches to her. Due to the lack of character background, it couldn't be helped that the audiences didn't feel any emotional attached to each character. Ah well, I think at this point I will treat first arc (five episodes?) as an introduction to the series.

But what really bother me is that out of five animes I've watched in this season. Umineko has the worst animation.

Also, I agree that there should have a specific thread for VN readers to rant about anime adaptation.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-09, 05:47

Alright then.

The Bad:
1. The entire issue of Maria getting the letter and the umbrella was rather downplayed a little, considering of course that it's a very important issue not only for this instance but in the future as well. At the very least the adults didn't go overboard anal in treating her like the game, but it feels like they aren't treating this as serious as it really is. (because it is

)

2. Somewhat exaggerated facial expressions, expecially Maria. The good thing is that the VA's managed to at least match their voices to the exaggeration, again especially Yui Horie's Maria. This way the exeggerated faces didn't seem to noticable and out of place.

3. Personally it's kinda retarded that they didn't have Krauss try to explain the situation behind the gold ingot he showed Natsuhi. As Klash said, this might just go over the heads of a lot of viewers.

4. Out of all the VA's who have had enough speaking lines I think, the one lowest of them all would be Maria Inoue's Jessica. Most of her lines in this episode felt flat and rather emotionless, a stark contrast to the amount of effort Yui Horie's putting in.

5. So... Shannon's boobs pressing and bouncing on George's arm, extended version? Do we really need to see that?

6. One major nitpicks for me: Shannon commenting on what she saw that night being ommitted. For Shannon, she actually comments on what she sees, but since they neglected to actually show what she saw or have her comment on it, all the viewers have to work on is the glow, and that's not really enough to realize much...

7. Is it me or is Natsuhi's ponytail of a different color than the rest of her hair?

The Good:
1. The pacing was definitely slowed down for this episode. Personally I feel it's still a bit fast but it's getting there. It might have been a good move to have had the lightning fast pacing for episode 1 since it got us this. Especially because...

2. With the pacing, they actually got the tensions of the situations very well. Granted it's not as heavy and oppressive as the game got in such a fantastic way, but it IS there. You could still feel the mood and the heaviness of the incidents and it reflects on the characters very well.

3. Thank god they kept most of Kyrie's conversation with Battler intact, especially the emphasis on "flipping the chessboard over." This is a very important scene, and anime viewers should keep in mind the things that Kyrie talked about.

4. Props again to Yui Horie, now I'm totally on her side. She's just a few notches away from delivering an utterly fantastic performance. This might become her best work yet.

5. Am I the only one who absolutely loved the fact that they used the same exact method in the game of showing snippets of what the characters were doing, without words being exchanged, just before all hell breaks loose? This was an excellent buildup of dread when you compare the music and what Shannon supposedly saw.

6. To those who thought differently about Natsuhi's conversation with Kinzo: that's actually a faithfully adaptation, plus that's pretty much everything we got for Natsuhi anyway. There's still a lot of character development for her and I just hope they adapt it for the succeeding episodes properly.

7. They actually showed a bit more gore than I thought they would, which is actually a pleasant surprise. The VN was terrific in showcasing the horror of the incident because it also forced you to imagine just what the hell happened here. They pretty much animated it exactly as I imagined the scene to be, and while it doesn't shock me as much as when I first saw/imagined it, it was brilliantly gruesome nonetheless. Also, doesn't the look of their teeth remind any VN players of a specific gore shot in the game?

8. The most brilliant thing about this episode was the final shot, showing Shannon wearing the ring on her left ring finger as George looks on in complete agony. Completely heartrending.

----------

I'll give this a episode an 8. Yeah the same as what I gave episode 1, because they chose to omit and alter a few things I considered important, but excellently portrayed some scenes I found also important.

zato_1one · 2009-07-09, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

7. Is it me or is Natsuhi's ponytail of a different color than the rest of her hair?

Yes. But it's the same as in VN.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-09, 06:27

Don't know why I never noticed that while playing.

Eryops · 2009-07-09, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oekitarts

Hmm...

Spoiler for Observation:

Are you talking about what Maria watches? Because those scenes were from the Urahigu shorts that were included as DVD extras in Kai.

SuperKnuckles · 2009-07-09, 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

5. So... Shannon's boobs pressing and bouncing on George's arm, extended version? Do we really need to see that?

That is sarcasm, right? I mean come on.. That was like 3 second, tops.

And I know this sounds silly, but this anime is coming in the short episodic angles like in the other Naku Koro Ni shows, right?

I would think they might do the whole "do it only for 13 eps then come back" thing or intrigue the viewers again by giving us extra, original arcs. Much to the chagrin of the purists, but whatever. lol

Christen · 2009-07-09, 06:43

Since 13 bluray volumes have already been announced, we're pretty sure they're releasing 24-26 episodes.

Alaya · 2009-07-09, 06:55

Watch it at last. I will give 8 out of 10 since it's a little bit better than episode 1.

The execution could be better executed though, like Natsuhi could ask Krauss while he open the lock along the line like "Do you really believe there're 10 tons gold" something like that. Another thing is Eva is a little bit underwhelmed.

The rest is good. Hope it keeps getting better.

For those who wish to listen to original rahu-goldenslaughter, the BGM that is played during the last scene, here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAupQUUglkU

Rena Ryuuguu · 2009-07-09, 08:54

i wonder how fast we will come to EP 2 from the Game.
if it continues with such speed.

View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 2 Rating
Perfect 10	27	12.80%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	63	29.86%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	56	26.54%
7 out of 10 : Good	33	15.64%
6 out of 10 : Average	19	9.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	6	2.84%
4 out of 10 : Poor	3	1.42%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	1	0.47%
1 out of 10 : Painful	3	1.42%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

2009-07-09, 02:32	Link #104
Mercurius Member Join Date: Jan 2006	Long winded rant: Spoiler for a or b: I guess by the second option, I was talking more about the style of the anime. Hearing the original BGM and sound effects is a great plus. But when it's coupled with voice acting that's either robotic or over-the-top, and very generic animation, it just comes off as a pandering "sorry for screwing up your favorite VN, here's some music from dai to appease you". Basically, it feels a bit half-assed, with DEEN relying too much on Umineko's name to sell the anime to the viewers. Think of option a) as KyoAni. Say what you will about the studio, it's VN adaptions are spot-on, both visually and thematically. Granted, it took them over a year to complete Clannad, but would you complain over a year's worth of Umineko? Option b) would be like SHAFT. Hidamari Sketch and ef are good examples here on how to impose you're own style, while keeping the essence of the original. I don't really care which method is chosen, as all those shows mentioned above left a deep impression on me as I watched them. And I hope the same happens with Umineko. I just don't think it can achieve that simply by tossing in a few BGM tracks here and there. Hopefully Kon-san has some sort of view/interpretation of Umineko that she wants to express. And hopefully that interpretation captures the heart of the series. Back on topic, it looks like a bit of censoring is popping up. Which were the channels that were airing it uncensored (or at least not as badly)? __________________

2009-07-09, 03:12	Link #106
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Subs are out by gg. Will watch it after I go to the gym lol. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-07-09, 03:30	Link #109
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	It is about on the edge of disturbing really. While the faces are in the shadows, they are not censored. The room is just dark in general. Someone put up the brightness form one frame...it is not pretty. No bleeping either. Though I don't know of any words they may have tried to bleep. And Maria is creepy when she wants to be creepy. __________________

2009-07-09, 03:33	Link #111
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	Ithekro, they have been dead for 6 hours, I believe coagulation or whatever its called has set in and its hard for those mutilated, as they may be, bodies to bleed any longer. __________________

2009-07-09, 02:53	Link #105
tcaz2 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009	I give the episode a 7, as a VN player. Honestly, I enjoyed the episode itself... but I agree with what Klashikari is saying a lot. Enjoyment factor was probably about a 8.5, but I just can't give it more than a 7 because of a nagging feeling in the back of my head because of all the stuff they left out. Contradictory, perhaps... but I really have mixed feelings on both this and the first episode so far. At least we pretty much have to slow down now because of how much they covered in the first two episodes (something like 10-11 chapters? That's nuts.) So yeah, still really looking forward to episodes but dreading what they'll cut all the same.

2009-07-09, 04:57	Link #112
zato_1one Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Just finished watching sub, I think it's better than I thought. Although they should at least develop or give more info about Natsuhi's background. That would help the audiences to know how precious it was for Natsuhi when Kinzo gave those speeches to her. Due to the lack of character background, it couldn't be helped that the audiences didn't feel any emotional attached to each character. Ah well, I think at this point I will treat first arc (five episodes?) as an introduction to the series. But what really bother me is that out of five animes I've watched in this season. Umineko has the worst animation. Also, I agree that there should have a specific thread for VN readers to rant about anime adaptation. __________________

2009-07-09, 05:47	Link #113
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Alright then. The Bad: 1. The entire issue of Maria getting the letter and the umbrella was rather downplayed a little, considering of course that it's a very important issue not only for this instance but in the future as well. At the very least the adults didn't go overboard anal in treating her like the game, but it feels like they aren't treating this as serious as it really is. (because it is) 2. Somewhat exaggerated facial expressions, expecially Maria. The good thing is that the VA's managed to at least match their voices to the exaggeration, again especially Yui Horie's Maria. This way the exeggerated faces didn't seem to noticable and out of place. 3. Personally it's kinda retarded that they didn't have Krauss try to explain the situation behind the gold ingot he showed Natsuhi. As Klash said, this might just go over the heads of a lot of viewers. 4. Out of all the VA's who have had enough speaking lines I think, the one lowest of them all would be Maria Inoue's Jessica. Most of her lines in this episode felt flat and rather emotionless, a stark contrast to the amount of effort Yui Horie's putting in. 5. So... Shannon's boobs pressing and bouncing on George's arm, extended version? Do we really need to see that? 6. One major nitpicks for me: Shannon commenting on what she saw that night being ommitted. For Shannon, she actually comments on what she sees, but since they neglected to actually show what she saw or have her comment on it, all the viewers have to work on is the glow, and that's not really enough to realize much... 7. Is it me or is Natsuhi's ponytail of a different color than the rest of her hair? The Good: 1. The pacing was definitely slowed down for this episode. Personally I feel it's still a bit fast but it's getting there. It might have been a good move to have had the lightning fast pacing for episode 1 since it got us this. Especially because... 2. With the pacing, they actually got the tensions of the situations very well. Granted it's not as heavy and oppressive as the game got in such a fantastic way, but it IS there. You could still feel the mood and the heaviness of the incidents and it reflects on the characters very well. 3. Thank god they kept most of Kyrie's conversation with Battler intact, especially the emphasis on "flipping the chessboard over." This is a very important scene, and anime viewers should keep in mind the things that Kyrie talked about. 4. Props again to Yui Horie, now I'm totally on her side. She's just a few notches away from delivering an utterly fantastic performance. This might become her best work yet. 5. Am I the only one who absolutely loved the fact that they used the same exact method in the game of showing snippets of what the characters were doing, without words being exchanged, just before all hell breaks loose? This was an excellent buildup of dread when you compare the music and what Shannon supposedly saw. 6. To those who thought differently about Natsuhi's conversation with Kinzo: that's actually a faithfully adaptation, plus that's pretty much everything we got for Natsuhi anyway. There's still a lot of character development for her and I just hope they adapt it for the succeeding episodes properly. 7. They actually showed a bit more gore than I thought they would, which is actually a pleasant surprise. The VN was terrific in showcasing the horror of the incident because it also forced you to imagine just what the hell happened here. They pretty much animated it exactly as I imagined the scene to be, and while it doesn't shock me as much as when I first saw/imagined it, it was brilliantly gruesome nonetheless. Also, doesn't the look of their teeth remind any VN players of a specific gore shot in the game? 8. The most brilliant thing about this episode was the final shot, showing Shannon wearing the ring on her left ring finger as George looks on in complete agony. Completely heartrending. ---------- I'll give this a episode an 8. Yeah the same as what I gave episode 1, because they chose to omit and alter a few things I considered important, but excellently portrayed some scenes I found also important. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing - Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-09 at 16:06. Reason: advice removed.

2009-07-09, 06:27	Link #115
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Don't know why I never noticed that while playing. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-07-09, 06:43	Link #118
Christen Endless Nine Artist Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: In a certain tropical island Age: 38	Since 13 bluray volumes have already been announced, we're pretty sure they're releasing 24-26 episodes.

2009-07-09, 06:55	Link #119
Alaya Counter Force Join Date: Nov 2007	Watch it at last. I will give 8 out of 10 since it's a little bit better than episode 1. The execution could be better executed though, like Natsuhi could ask Krauss while he open the lock along the line like "Do you really believe there're 10 tons gold" something like that. Another thing is Eva is a little bit underwhelmed. The rest is good. Hope it keeps getting better. For those who wish to listen to original rahu-goldenslaughter, the BGM that is played during the last scene, here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAupQUUglkU __________________ Fate/Zero: This was the tale of a man who, more than anyone else, believed in his ideals, and was driven to despair by them. Madoka: This was the tale of magical girls whose wishes are pure and by them are driven to despair. Last edited by Alaya; 2009-07-09 at 07:55.

2009-07-09, 08:54	Link #120
Rena Ryuuguu Hinamizawas Cleaver Girl Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hinamizawa	i wonder how fast we will come to EP 2 from the Game. if it continues with such speed. __________________ hauuu kaii omochikaeri<3 Keiichi-kun?doushite uso... tsuku no kana? doushite uso..tsuku no kana?USODA!USODA!!USODA!!!