Little Busters - Anime Pre-Airing News and Anticipation

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

People are forgetting a very popular J.C. Staff work that is still considered the core for its type:


Azumanga Daioh.

No longer relevant considering their current track record.

[brocko]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

People are forgetting a very popular J.C. Staff work that is still considered the core for its type:


Azumanga Daioh.

Oh you mean that show called Osaka? Yeah that was pretty funny too. But like... it was all just highschool girls doing random things... and you know... it didn't have enough of that fluffy stuff. The girls needed to play dress-up more, eat *moar cake, do some dancing and of course some group fondling whilst laughing and having fun like perfectly normal and good friends.

I think Little Busters may be able to benefit from *moar cake as well.

* Note: Moar cake may not necessarily solve all your anime woes.

[rulfo]

Meh.... So much for that...

I would've gladly settled for A1, PA Works or White Fox.

This has been a big let down. Bracing for plausible train wreck since Index producer is involved.

I'll be back when this thing airs..... My expectations suddenly dropped by a lot.

[Skyfall]

Well, this turn of events is certainly unexpected, at least for me. While I had my guesses on which studios were likely to pick up the torch if KyoAni wouldn't (which seemed increasingly more likely), JC certainly wasn't on the list. Suffice to say, I'm hardly thrilled by this prospect.

While I don't really dislike the studio (as it has a few shows under its belt that I quite enjoyed - Someday's dreamers, Shigofumi, Ghost Hunt, and a few others), it certainly makes me weary. Given their tendency to be either hit or miss, I tend to approach each their new work with a bit of worry ... and being worried is certainly a valid stance here.

I think the complaint of them taking liberties with source material is quite valid, but more than that, they really aren't very experienced with adapting VNs in the first place. This can be a somewhat difficult prospect in the first place, one which often requires making some tough storytelling choices, and making the potentially wrong ones seems rather commonplace. And due to certain reasons, Little Busters should be even harder to transfer to anime than most. And then there is the fact it seems we are getting what doesn't really amount to the best of the best that JC could summon to the table, in terms of staff.

This inherent difficulty of adapting VNs, coupled with a studio with distinct ups and downs in terms of final product, coupled with less than their arguable A team at the helm, coupled with their general lack of experience when it comes to working with VNs ... yeah, I'd be lying if I were to say that I am not worried. A lot!

Suffice to say, my expectations have just taken a serious dip, and to say I'm not disappointed would be a lie. I had pretty much resigned to KyoAni not being the studio, but JC Staff was hardly my secondary choice.

And even if they manage to pull this one off and the end result is decent, there is the fact I don't think they have any (remotely recent) anime that I would consider as memorable. Above average and entertaining, yes - but I regard the previous Key-KyoAni works with a good deal more fondness than "above average". And as such I already feel like lamenting the fact that even the best case scenario is likely to turn out lesser than it could have been in the hands of some other studio.

Of course, I would love for nothing else than to be proven wrong here - to see JC Staff raise above themselves and deliver such a splendid performance that would make me come back and eat my own words. Until that happens though, I feel like I'm more inclined to already mourn that which could have been. Meh ...

I suppose we can console ourselves with the fact it wasn't something truly horrid, like ZEXCS ...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by NCP

The way you say that makes it sound as if you believe Kyoani and Key could simply come together and make the LB! anime on their own. Except they can't. [...] Traditionally Kyoani has only worked with two different production committees and they have been headed by Kadokawa and TBS. All the Key adaptations have been backed by TBS and if Kyoani were to make LB!, it would also be with TBS. [...] In the end it looks like Key simply decided it would be better to go with a different Production Committee (Warner Bros.) and JC Staff rather than wait for Kyoani's schedule to open up and for TBS to open its wallet.

This is basically what I was thinking as well. It's not as if Kyoto Animation was ever contracted by Key, but they were contracted by Pony Canyon/TBS/Movic. And according to the earlier Key interview, Pony Canyon already has Kyoto Animation booked up for future productions, even knowing that Key would have liked them to work on Little Busters. So, if Pony Canyon wanted Kyoto Animation to work on other things, Key had to start considering other production partners, and ended up with Warner Japan.

At the end of the day, while I understand some people's hesitance based on the studio's track record, it's not as if the ability to deliver a faithful adaptation is limited to writers and directors who just so happen to work with Kyoto Animation. If that were the case, that itself is a problem for the anime industry, who has to be able to grow beyond a single studio's production capacity. Care and attention to detail is a function of the people chosen, the directions they're given, and the amount of time and money they're allocated to do the work to an exacting standard. So, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether you believe that Warner Japan and the various production partners understand what the fans want in this case and are investing appropriately to make sure it happens.

(Edit: Besides, I'm pretty sure that both Warner Japan and J.C. Staff would love to take this opportunity to prove the critics wrong and be known as a group that can make high quality works -- even to follow-up Kyoto Animation. So, in a way, I guess they're underdogs. )

[brocko]

It's alright, there'll always be the KyoAni version in 20XX to look forward to

[Ascaloth]

At this point, I'm just going to assume that Key is actually meaning for J.C. Staff to fuck this up, just to light a fire under the asses of TBS/Pony Canyon and encourage them to greenlit a KyoAni remake a few years down the road.

[Klashikari]

Late for the reply, but while some points were covered by other people, few should be addressed:

Originally Posted by Arabesque

It doesn't matter since it was the author's wishes to have the anime turn out like that.

Author's desires > Fans expectations.

Considering how the author's name is attached to the anime, I think it more than him asking for change.

I really don't get where you pull the "author desire" here. Frankly, the fact the author is mentioned in the staff roll doesn't mean anything. For instance, I -really- doubt things for Negima's first season really was how Akamatsu imagined, despite it hardly is. Likewise, Higurashi season 1 was mangled by a big margin, and yet, Ryukishi was mentioned. In fact, credits go naturally to the original author for obvious reasons, it hardly mean anything past the mention of the creator of the series.
Really, there are much rare instance where the author had a -direct- implication, such like Gatoh Shoji for FMP or Ryukishi for Higurashi kai. And such things are mentioned by actual interview, or mention in the credit roll, such like storyboard etc (Gatoh is the prime suspect of that, for instance).

And yes, I am aware about how the Tsukihime anime being something of a taboo subject when it comes to adaption work, but you brought up how they had nothing to speak of so I brought some of their best selling shows.

What I mentioned by success is regarding the critical praise regarding adaptation. Sales are important on the business side for the studio, but past that, we are talking about an adaptation of a franchise which is even more complicated than Clannad, to which KyoAni already had to make many alterations to still have a proper storytelling and pacing.

But they didn't, did they? That either means that Key had realized that the longer they wait the more unlikely a LB! anime would be made/be successful, or that KyoAni had been straight with them and told them they had no plans to animate their older work.

That's up to speculation, and even now, pretending Key didn't make a mistake by choosing JC Staff is as good or as bad as anyone else guess, backed with merely what people consider their past works (and while we never stated that they never did anything good, JC Staff records are definitely going on the sub-par - very bad spectrum. As triple R said, they are a factory studio). Really, if it wasn't that bad, the consensus wouldn't be that polarized towards the negative, and the past already is proof of why people are quite concerned about this turn of event.

And really, the years do hurt. In 1~2 years if (and that's a big if) Key does come around to get KyoAni to animate LB!, will there still be the same levels of interest and enthusiasm as it is now? Somehow I doubt it, going by how fickle the majorty of the anime customer base is.

People weren't expecting the series at all anyway, but guess what? The announcement still sparked the interest of a sizable fanbase, even though they forsake the idea of having the series adapted in the future. Really, it is basically the same as people expecting the ending of Shana, which was dragged for more than half a decade.
1-2 years is hardly a long waiting time, especially for an established franchise like LB.

As VCS said, the announcement of the studio delivered such a blow that the interest dwindle down significantly.

[Triple_R]

The Key/KyoAni partnership has been very mutually beneficial, both critically and commercially, and also as far as it comes to building brand name loyalty/recognition for both companies. It's also been widely well-received to a great degree by anime fans and VN fans alike.

So there's frankly something wrong when a creative partnership that's been consistently golden, both critically and commercially, is not able to continue due to the complexities of a business model, in spite of what the fans clearly want.


Now, I'm much less inclined to blame KyoAni specifically for this than I was a few pages back (it now seems to me to be more of a weakness in the modern anime business model in general), but it should be understandable to anybody why a lot of people are displeased that the proven excellent track record of the team that brought us Clannad, Kanon (2006), and Air will not be able to continue with the Little Busters! anime.

It would be much different if the works of that team weren't commercially successful, because then it would be an easier pill to swallow, as it would seem "fair", basically. But they were commercially successful. Each of the Key/KyoAni combos were commercial hits. No, not at the level of a K-On!, but still big time hits.

So at some level, this honestly doesn't seem fair to the fans of the Key/KyoAni partnership, imo. It really doesn't, as we did our part to financially support the DVDs/Blu-Rays for the Key/KyoAni works, and so they were commercially successful well-beyond what the vast majority of VN-adaptations ever see.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

At the end of the day, while I understand some people's hesitance based on the studio's track record, it's not as if the ability to deliver a faithful adaptation is limited to writers and directors who just so happen to work with Kyoto Animation.

I have a hard time with the concept of writers being associated to one studio.
The writer in charge of Bakuman's adaptation is also in charge of K-on's adaptation for KyoAni.

Or the head writer of KyoAni's Kanon was also in the writing staff of DEEN's Umineko adaption.
Writers change studios all the time,Kyoani's writers don't just work for KyoAni


Really though,more than JC staff,I'm intrigued by the writer (who again has never worked for JC staff before) having only done daytime tv shows like DBZ,one piece,Kaze no Shoujo Emily,Anne before green apples,shugo chara etc and nothing really close to a VN adaptation.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

People weren't expecting the series at all anyway, but guess what? The announcement still sparked the interest of a sizable fanbase, even though they forsake the idea of having the series adapted in the future. Really, it is basically the same as people expecting the ending of Shana, which was dragged for more than half a decade.
1-2 years is hardly a long waiting time, especially for an established franchise like LB.

That actually supports Arabesque's point on the wait question, though.

Shana III did much worse commercially than its two preceding seasons, and many Shana fans believe that the long layoff between Season 2 and 3 was a big part of the reason why. I myself think it was a factor at least.


I don't fault Key for losing patience in waiting for KyoAni to be freed up. At the same time, it now looks like KyoAni is also a victim of circumstance to a degree.

So it's the anime business model itself that is at least somewhat broken. This thread has really opened my eyes to the weaknesses of it, and how it can actually negatively impact fans rather than serve their interests and desires.

[Tyabann]

I'm more intrigued by how they're going to make it look as good as KyoAni's Kanon and Clannad adaptations.

Oh, wait.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by rulfo

No longer relevant considering their current track record.

Bullshit. Even if they messed up on all shows since then (which obviously is not true), does that mean they will always do a bad job?

While I understand that J.C. Staff has gotten quite a bad reputation for their overall work, it doesn't change the fact that they still made a few shows that were received quite well and have pretty much become classics.

I tend to believe that if Key gives J.C. Staff their blessing, then they must have absolute faith that they'll do a good job. If they abuse that faith, Key might think twice about hiring them. However, maybe they'll do a good job, in which case Key knows that they don't need KyoAni or PA Works to get the utmost quality for their work and can rely on other studios if needed.

Anyway, instead of worrying about whether or not J.C Staff is up to the task, let's just wait and see what comes of it.

[Klashikari]

By the same logic, it would mean that Key gave their blessing to Toei for Kanon, expecting it to be what they were expecting. I think Baba's opinion about Kanon 2002 is self sufficient if you ask me.

So no, concluding that the choice done by Key is enough to have faith in the studio is nowhere enough. It is quite legitimate for people to grow quite worried about this turn of event, when the past definitely points on a not so stellar production (and again, JC staff managed to do deliver some series in a good way, but that doesn't automatically erase their bad records, which are stock piling).

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by totoum

I have a hard time with the concept of writers being associated to one studio.
The writer in charge of Bakuman's adaptation is also in charge of K-on's adaptation for KyoAni.

Or the head writer of KyoAni's Kanon was also in the writing staff of DEEN's Umineko adaption.
Writers change studios all the time,Kyoani's writers don't just work for KyoAni

Indeed, and that is part of the point. Writers are usually contractors who are paid by the production committee, and don't actually work for the studio producing the animation. Sometimes, studios have writers who work for them directly and they have them do the work, but often times they're brought in from the outside specifically to work on the project. In this case, as you alluded to, this particular writer is certainly an interesting choice, and definitely not a J.C. Staff-er.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I'm more intrigued by how they're going to make it look as good as KyoAni's Kanon and Clannad adaptations.

Oh, wait.

This is mostly about time and budget. It's not as if the ability to make good-looking shows is limited to KyoAni either, but most productions simply don't have the time or the money to hire all the best animators and make sure the job is done at that level. And production committees that hired Kyoto Animation no doubt paid significantly extra for that quality level. So, again, the issue is just: are they investing enough to ensure the job is done well?

Originally Posted by Klashikari

By the same logic, it would mean that Key gave their blessing to Toei for Kanon, expecting it to be what they were expecting. I think Baba's opinion about Kanon 2002 is self sufficient if you ask me.

Key did give their blessing to Toei, but they didn't have as much experience with anime adaptations as they have now. The decision that was made now was clearly made in full awareness of what's happened in the past, so this is why I think there is more reason for hope than some ascribe to the situation.

(I mean, do you think the director and all the staff involved aren't keenly aware that they were clearly the second-choice? It's not like they live in a bubble.)

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

I tend to believe that if Key gives J.C. Staff their blessing, then they must have absolute faith that they'll do a good job. If they abuse that faith, Key might think twice about hiring them. However, maybe they'll do a good job, in which case Key knows that they don't need KyoAni or PA Works to get the utmost quality for their work and can rely on other studios if needed.

Anyway, instead of worrying about whether or not J.C Staff is up to the task, let's just wait and see what comes of it.

I pretty much agree. While Key isn't infallible or anything, I refuse to believe that they would just throw one of their most well-loved projects to a studio without having faith in them. While I'm not a huge fan of even their really good stuff, they can make good projects.

Yes, the team isn't the greatest, but if there's good communication between them, it'll probably be fine.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That actually supports Arabesque's point on the wait question, though.

Shana III did much worse commercially than its two preceding seasons, and many Shana fans believe that the long layoff between Season 2 and 3 was a big part of the reason why. I myself think it was a factor at least.

I personally don't, since Shana III was way much more affected by Shana II. The major negative response regarding Shana III debut is self evident: Shana II was nearly useless in term of character or plot development, to the point people didn't expect a proper conclusion, which sort of happened, but not without mishaps.

Also, IIRCS, the sales for Shana III were quite variable past the first third of the season, which coincides with the shift of the events in the series.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I personally don't, since Shana III was way much more affected by Shana II. The major negative response regarding Shana III debut is self evident: Shana II was nearly useless in term of character or plot development, to the point people didn't expect a proper conclusion, which sort of happened, but not without mishaps.

Also, IIRCS, the sales for Shana III were quite variable past the first third of the season, which coincides with the shift of the events in the series.

No, the sales are pretty constant even to the latest volume. For what it's worth, I concur with the "they waited too long" theory in that case, but by the same token I think it doesn't apply to quite the same extent with Key due to the hardcore fanbase who probably would be more willing to wait as long as it takes. Still, the longer they wait, the more other shows will accumulate in the meantime, and having a backlog doesn't really serve them either. If this Little Busters anime goes over well, I imagine a Rewrite anime may come not too long thereafter.

[dark998]

Oh, I was expecting PA Works. But honestly I prefer them to have their hands free to do more Angel Beats.


As for JC Staff...well, the reactions for Kyoani not being involved with another Key production are pure gold, so I will sit back and enjoy the spectacle.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This is mostly about time and budget. It's not as if the ability to make good-looking shows is limited to KyoAni either

This is true, but... even when given a decent budget, JC Staff is not particularly known for making high-quality visuals.

I keep remembering the entirety of Toradora and how bad it looked... it's not really encouraging.