NBA and College Basketball Thread

[itisjustme]

Damnit missed the game. Did Tim or Manu say anything about retiring?

[Xagzan]

Nope. In fact Tim seems fired up to try to defend their title, imo

[D-KLAC]

well give congrats to spurs for 5th title indeed now duncan & pops got a hand full of rings.

but for heat here are 5 things need to for next season

1.get HELP for all players really the "lebron show" can't carry team by himself.
2.other players in heat not named lebron really wake-up get more playing.
3.they need more BENCH helping since heat version is barely active.
4.get a LEGIT center player & move bosh to PF spot give lebron SF spot.
5.all others heat players need do play or go home.

indeed if this happen again yea cue Miami Heat "you have failed this city".

[frivolity]

The Heat big 3 may not even stick together next season. There's talk about Melo joining up with them to form a big 4, but the salaries are really hard to balance.

The big 3 still have player options of >20m each for the next 2 years, and getting Melo in would mean they'd have to all opt out and sign new contracts together for around 12-15m each. Wade is unlikely to be willing to take a pay cut because his knees are blown. If he opts out and re-signs with the Heat for less, there won't be another contract after that. Besides, he may not even be worth 12-15m anymore. His current contract is probably his last big contract, and it is unlikely that he will leave all that money on the table a second time. I think there's a high chance that he will choose to opt in, take the 41.5m, and play out the last 2 years of his contract with sporadic minutes.

Wade opting in means no Melo, and if Wade is going to make 41m over the next 2 years for contributing less than in the past, then LeBron wouldn't want to settle for less either since he'll be the one making the lion's share of the contributions. All 3 opting in means that the Heat will be very close to the salary cap, making it difficult to sign good role players.

Long story short, it will be hard for the Heat to solve their roster issues in the coming off-season. In turn, that gives LeBron more of an incentive to leave the team to join another contender. Once LeBron leaves, Bosh has no reason to stay in Miami either and will also leave.

There have been rumours that LeBron might be considering a return to Cleveland to play with Kyrie Irving and the likely draft pick Embiid. Of course, Houston may also be in the running for LeBron to form a new big 3 with the Harden-Howard tandem.

[itisjustme]

If Bron leaves Miami it'd make him look reaaaaally bad, like a ring chaser shopping for championship teams instead of being a competitor/champion who carries his team to victory.

Except if he goes back to Cleveland but the Cavs are a terribly managed team I wouldn't touch it myself. Irving despite all his hype looks like another guy who's only out there to make himself look good and has no interest in playmaking and defense.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by frivolity

The Heat big 3 may not even stick together next season. There's talk about Melo joining up with them to form a big 4, but the salaries are really hard to balance.

The big 3 still have player options of >20m each for the next 2 years, and getting Melo in would mean they'd have to all opt out and sign new contracts together for around 12-15m each. Wade is unlikely to be willing to take a pay cut because his knees are blown. If he opts out and re-signs with the Heat for less, there won't be another contract after that. Besides, he may not even be worth 12-15m anymore. His current contract is probably his last big contract, and it is unlikely that he will leave all that money on the table a second time. I think there's a high chance that he will choose to opt in, take the 41.5m, and play out the last 2 years of his contract with sporadic minutes.

Wade opting in means no Melo, and if Wade is going to make 41m over the next 2 years for contributing less than in the past, then LeBron wouldn't want to settle for less either since he'll be the one making the lion's share of the contributions. All 3 opting in means that the Heat will be very close to the salary cap, making it difficult to sign good role players.

Long story short, it will be hard for the Heat to solve their roster issues in the coming off-season. In turn, that gives LeBron more of an incentive to leave the team to join another contender. Once LeBron leaves, Bosh has no reason to stay in Miami either and will also leave.

There have been rumours that LeBron might be considering a return to Cleveland to play with Kyrie Irving and the likely draft pick Embiid. Of course, Houston may also be in the running for LeBron to form a new big 3 with the Harden-Howard tandem.

Tons of speculation but the only way I see LeBron leaving is if both Wade and Bosh opt back in. If they both opt, that means the three are likely working together to reduce their combined salaries and bring in more talent. Personally, I hope they don't go after Melo.

As for the Cleveland rumours, I highly doubt he does it. Beyond Cleveland's young roster that wouldn't necessarily be able to rise to the challenge in the play-offs, why would LeBron want to play for Dan Gilbert again?

Originally Posted by itisjustme

If Bron leaves Miami it'd make him look reaaaaally bad, like a ring chaser shopping for championship teams instead of being a competitor/champion who carries his team to victory.

Except if he goes back to Cleveland but the Cavs are a terribly managed team I wouldn't touch it myself. Irving despite all his hype looks like another guy who's only out there to make himself look good and has no interest in playmaking and defense.

There's nothing wrong with chasing rings. Many superstars before him have done it. And have you not been paying attention to the last 4 years? He's more than competed and been the biggest reason why the Heat have been to four Finals and won two. But there's no point in him sticking around on a team when they're not giving you help.

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

Tons of speculation but the only way I see LeBron leaving is if both Wade and Bosh opt back in. If they both opt, that means the three are likely working together to reduce their combined salaries and bring in more talent. Personally, I hope they don't go after Melo.

I think you meant opt out and re-sign?

The current structure of the big 3's contracts is that all three have player options for two more years at >20m each per annum. If they choose to opt in, the 20m is automatically locked in and there's no way to reduce the salaries. If they want to bring in more talent, the only ways to do that will be (1) all opt out of the player options and re-sign for much less money; or (2) get veteran players like Ray Allen to sign for less in exchange for a chance at a championship.

If Wade opts in for his 20m contract, that completely throws a spanner into the works. Having a big 3 being paid 20m each will take a franchise close to the salary cap, leaving the rest of the roster to be filled with veteran or minimum contracts. As such, all three have to perform at an all-star level to compensate for the deficiencies of the rest of the team. If even one of them underperforms, there's nobody else to take up the slack. For the Heat to improve their roster sufficiently to take on not just the Spurs but the extremely strong Western conference, at least Wade if not all three will have to opt out and re-sign for less.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by frivolity

I think you meant opt out and re-sign?

The current structure of the big 3's contracts is that all three have player options for two more years at >20m each per annum. If they choose to opt in, the 20m is automatically locked in and there's no way to reduce the salaries. If they want to bring in more talent, the only ways to do that will be (1) all opt out of the player options and re-sign for much less money; or (2) get veteran players like Ray Allen to sign for less in exchange for a chance at a championship.

If Wade opts in for his 20m contract, that completely throws a spanner into the works. Having a big 3 being paid 20m each will take a franchise close to the salary cap, leaving the rest of the roster to be filled with veteran or minimum contracts. As such, all three have to perform at an all-star level to compensate for the deficiencies of the rest of the team. If even one of them underperforms, there's nobody else to take up the slack. For the Heat to improve their roster sufficiently to take on not just the Spurs but the extremely strong Western conference, at least Wade if not all three will have to opt out and re-sign for less.

Yes, meant to write "opt out".

I fully understand how it works but great explanation nonetheless. LeBron can make up money he leaves on the table in endorsements. Bosh has said he'll take a discount, although we'll see how much less he's willing to take. It's all on Wade in my opinion. Been rooting for the guy since '04 but I'll be pissed if he takes the money even though I'll understand him wanting to get his.

[itisjustme]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

There's nothing wrong with chasing rings. Many superstars before him have done it. And have you not been paying attention to the last 4 years? He's more than competed and been the biggest reason why the Heat have been to four Finals and won two. But there's no point in him sticking around on a team when they're not giving you help.

What. Jordan didn't do it, Bird didn't do it, Magic didn't do it, Duncan didn't do it, Kobe didn't do it.

Look how hated is bron and Miami because of the whole Decision thing already, if he does it with Melo a second time it'll be five times worse. Wouldn't be surprised of him if he did tbh but chances are good he'll stay anyway.

[frivolity]

Jordan, Bird, Magic, Olajuwon, etc, are from a different era. As Kenny Smith mentioned on NBA First Take when discussing Melo's upcoming free agency, they were from an era where players didn't go around searching for teams to join. They had the mindset of, "I am good enough that others should want to come and play with me."

Duncan was lucky to be picked up by a very well-run organisation in the Spurs, who have been able to surround him with a good roster that can complement his skillset and a great coach who's been able to ensure his longevity. However, Duncan did entertain thoughts of leaving San Antonio for the Orlando Magic before the 2001 season, and only decided to stay after Robinson cut short his own holiday to pay him a personal visit in a bid to persuade him to stay.

As for Kobe, I think his latest contract shows that he cares more about the money than winning. $24.5 million a year for two years means that the Lakers will only be able to sign at most one star instead of the possible two, had he taken less money like Duncan did. Furthermore, when Howard was considering his options after the 2013 season, Kobe did not lift a finger to convince him to stay in LA.

I wouldn't blame LeBron for leaving a sinking ship for the sake of winning another title. Malone and Payton joined the Shaq-Kobe-era Lakers to try and win a championship. KG left the Timberwolves after being their franchise player for many years and finally won a ring with the Celtics. Allen also joined the Heat to add to his tally. Melo is probably going to do the same thing since the Knicks are tied with the Nets for worst salary situation for next season while having no trade leverage in the form of draft picks or serviceable expiring contracts.

Now, if LeBron does leave, there's a few places that have both the cap space and suitable roster to take him in. Houston, Dallas, and Chicago are all fairly attractive for free agents this summer. Portland may be able to work something out as well if they make the right trades. Call me biased but imo, Houston makes the most sense since we have a young superstar SG, a top 3 centre close to his prime, an up-and-coming SF, and a decent defensive PG. On the other hand, Dallas have an aging superstar in Dirk, while playing in Chicago will depend heavily on Rose being healthy.

[kirikirito334]

Don't know about the Miame Heat 'shut down'(?)

First of all, Wade did a good, if not better than the last season, job in the playoffs. Collectively, the Heat played better in this year's playoffs. They got shorter series in the Conference Finals and Semi-finals which proves their health. Wade and Chalmers just slacked off tremendously on the series against the Spurs. Cole, effective against Pacers, was no show versus the Spurs even last season, no big deal.

In fact, its just the power of the Spurs. They had their eye fixed on the trophy. They wanted redemption and that goal carried them to a dominating Finals series.

Improvements on the Heat? Get a good facilitator(pg) and a legitimate rim-protector(center). They have Allen, Birdman, Cole, Beasley and Haslem(?) of the bench to support them. They are a great team with a few not-so minor problems, I want to believe that they can weather this Spurs' storm.

[Mr. DJ]

While I don't really care for the guy, I don't see a real reason for LeBron to jump ship already. What was it? 4 straight years to the finals and 2 rings? That's not a bad deal at all. Though I do think he got ahead of himself thinking he'll get 8 rings by the time his career is over.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by itisjustme

What. Jordan didn't do it, Bird didn't do it, Magic didn't do it, Duncan didn't do it, Kobe didn't do it.

Look how hated is bron and Miami because of the whole Decision thing already, if he does it with Melo a second time it'll be five times worse. Wouldn't be surprised of him if he did tbh but chances are good he'll stay anyway.

As frivolity said, the first four players you mentioned never had to chase rings. As for Kobe, I understand people have terribly short memories these days, but I remember him bitching about wanting to be traded if the Lakers didn't get their ish together back around '07.

I don't think the hate matters to him or the team any more.

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by kirikirito334

Don't know about the Miame Heat 'shut down'(?)

First of all, Wade did a good, if not better than the last season, job in the playoffs. Collectively, the Heat played better in this year's playoffs. They got shorter series in the Conference Finals and Semi-finals which proves their health. Wade and Chalmers just slacked off tremendously on the series against the Spurs. Cole, effective against Pacers, was no show versus the Spurs even last season, no big deal.

In fact, its just the power of the Spurs. They had their eye fixed on the trophy. They wanted redemption and that goal carried them to a dominating Finals series.

Improvements on the Heat? Get a good facilitator(pg) and a legitimate rim-protector(center). They have Allen, Birdman, Cole, Beasley and Haslem(?) of the bench to support them. They are a great team with a few not-so minor problems, I want to believe that they can weather this Spurs' storm.

With all due respect to the 15 Eastern teams, the Heat making it through to the NBA Finals without breaking a sweat is not indicative of the Heat's strength, but the collective breakdown in competitiveness of the Eastern conference. Of course, it's possible that LeBron would rather take a guaranteed fifth trip to the finals instead of fighting through a tough Western conference. However, he acknowledged that the Heat will have to find a way to beat not just the Spurs, but all the other Western teams because OKC, LAC, and all the other teams are improving at a rapid pace.

The problem with Wade's performance is that playing well is simply not enough; he needs to play at an all-star level for the Heat to win in the finals. The reason is that the Heat has a massively top-heavy salary structure with three players getting near max contracts. This means that they simply don't have the cap room to get quality players to fill up the remaining two spots and bench unless they get veterans to take up less money in exchange for a chance at a championship. As a result, all three players must play at an all-star level to compensate for the overall weaker squad.

On the other hand, the Spurs big 3 are only paid $30m a year in total, which frees up a lot of cap space for them to get quality players and a strong bench. If one of the Spurs big 3 underperforms, the rest of the team can cover for them. If it happens to one of the Heat big 3, there's nobody left to pick up the slack.

Wade's knees were clearly bothering him during the finals. He claims that he has no health issues, but nobody actually believes him on that. He will have to get his knees operated on this summer, but even then he probably can only play around 20 minutes per game next season, which is simply not sufficient for a player on a $20m annual contract.

Bosh also underperformed against the Spurs, but I wouldn't be too concerned about him. His poor performance ultimately boiled down to a lack of effort - he actually got beaten to multiple rebounds by Ginobili of all people! The silver lining is that a lack of effort is easily fixed for players who have shown the required effort in the past. Health-related issues, however, cannot be completely taken care of.

With regard to the roster, the Heat simply cannot improve the team without more cap space. The big 3's current contract will take up $61.2m next season with a projected salary cap of $63.2m. They can only rely on exceptions and veteran minimums to fill up the remaining spots on the roster. At least one of the big 3 will have to opt out and sign for much less money.

Overall, it probably isn't in LeBron's best interest to stay in Miami, be it money-wise or championship-wise. His two wingmen in Miami are not playing sufficiently well to make up for the weaker squad arising from their triple max contracts. He may be able to join a better team without having to take less money.

[itisjustme]

Haha ok you're a rockets fan and you want him on your roster understandably. That said Harden is a big liability on defense and he'd get on Lebron's nerves. Harden doesn't seem to share the ball much either, and that teams lacks a leader like Wade was in Miami, dunno if Lebron is ready to fill that role now, and you guys don't have much teamwork/chemistry so it's uncertain you'd be an instant chip winner in the West.

I don't see him leaving Miami honestly it's still a still guaranteed trip to the finals unless Melo lands in chicago and rose is miraculously healthy again. So basically guaranteed trip to the finals. :P They just don't have the overwhelmingly best roster in the NBA but they're not a sinking ship. Nothing you can't handle with a smart selection of role players and some luxury tax.

[Wigwams]

lebron will never go to west. being in east is easier and which is probably the biggest reason why they reached the finals 4x. if miami was in the west, would never happen.

[BPD Renegade]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

lebron will never go to west. being in east is easier and which is probably the biggest reason why they reached the finals 4x. if miami was in the west, would never happen.

--
Finally checked out the draft prospects. My old college team is losing some serious skill. On one hand, it's great for these guys, getting into the NBA, on the other, why couldn't they have stayed one more year? One of them definitely should have stayed an extra year to get more experience. His game fell apart somewhat the second half of the season. ~sighs~

[VTHokiePride]

Lebron made it official and will opt out of his deal with Miami and become an unrestricted free agent July 1st.

[frivolity]

Rockets are reportedly trading Asik to the Pelicans in exchange for a first round pick. Now all that's left is to trade Lin and there'll be enough cap room for a 3rd max contract.

Houston will probably make pitches to LeBron and Melo, but various websites claim that Love is a more likely (and more realistic) target.

[BPD Renegade]

Spurs drafted Anderson. TBH, I was not expecting him to be drafted so late, but glad the Spurs got him.

Originally Posted by frivolity

Houston will probably make pitches to LeBron and Melo, but various websites claim that Love is a more likely (and more realistic) target.

Would LeBron mesh well with Dwight Howard? Assuming he does go to Houston, I feel like we might get another Kobe-Dwight relationship going...