Code Geass R2 - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[Maxmillian]

Originally Posted by Sonae

R1!Suzaku = <3
R2!Suzaku = meh...

He was better in R1. In R2 he was only a cold, unattached, Euphie obsessing bastard. But what made me not hate him, is the fact that he felt for Lelouch's death.

Thanks for missing the point entirely

[Sonae]

I wasn't trying to keep to the point. Just randomly stating things like usual. Thank god I can't get bad rep yet, I'd get a lot. I can't keep to a point for my life

[Maxmillian]

Originally Posted by Sonae

I wasn't trying to keep to the point. Just randomly stating things like usual. Thank god I can't get bad rep yet, I'd get a lot. I can't keep to a point for my life

You know what that was rude of me, sorry about that

[Sonae]

Originally Posted by Maxmillian

You know what that was rude of me, sorry about that

It's okay ^^

[Spring_sakura111]

I actually liked Suzaku at R2. Not much on R1 though. Albion FTW!

[Sonae]

Originally Posted by Spring_sakura111

I actually liked Suzaku at R2. Not much on R1 though. Albion FTW!

Lol. You're the first I've heard/read say that. Most people hate R2!Suzaku

Albion FTW!! -glomps Sakura-

[Levy]

I'm all for Conquista XD

Suzaku's character rendition in R2 is, to use a bland euphemism, rather unsympathetic.. anyway, even forgetting my personal inhability in hate fictional characters for what they do, the reasons for him to be a 'cold, unattached, Euphie obsessing bastard', as you said above, are pretty easy to understand. He's just being human after all.

Having is inner drama explored a bit more in R2 would have surely helped to make the audience feel more sympathetic towards him, but judging from the high moral standards people use to addres their likings - of course Lelouch is an exception - I'm not too sold on this hypotesis either.

[Autumn Demon]

Suzaku was a moron. He believed that it was best to change Britannia from within, but did nothing the entire series to help the people of the world except when he was working with Lulu. I agree with Suzaku's beliefs, that incremental change from within is a good way to change an evil empire, but Suzaku's actions made him nothing more than a dog of the military who killed members of the resistance who were fighting for freedom. Suzaku was aiming to become Knight of One so he could get a governorship and then help his colony, but he never really had a chance of achieving that goal as an Eleven. If it weren't for Lulu, Suzaku would've lived out his entire life killing for Britannia and helping no one. I also recall Suzaku saying something like the ends don't justify the means when he was criticizing Zero and the Black Knights, but he himself was killing in order to eventually help Japan. Total hypocrite.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Autumn Demon

Suzaku was a moron.

I actually agree with Lelouch there.
Suzaku may have been an idiot, but at least he was a very likeable one.
In my opinion, that is. ;P

He believed that it was best to change Britannia from within, but did nothing the entire series to help the people of the world except when he was working with Lulu.

But that's mainly because of what he did before the series started.
Killing his father wasn't something he had really thought through. It just happened, and since Suzaku is really a very gentle person, it affected him deeply.
The guilt hurt him back then, and it only grew stronger with time. It caused him to change from a very brash and head-strong person into someone much more subdued and polite - someone who lived only for redemption.
Yes, he was a very flawed character, but I probably wouldn't have adored him nearly as much if he had been "perfect".
Had he been right, then Lelouch would have been wrong, and their friendship would have been a lot less interesting. Not to mention that Code Geass really didn't need a completely "white" character with an important role.

I agree with Suzaku's beliefs, that incremental change from within is a good way to change an evil empire, but Suzaku's actions made him nothing more than a dog of the military who killed members of the resistance who were fighting for freedom. Suzaku was aiming to become Knight of One so he could get a governorship and then help his colony, but he never really had a chance of achieving that goal as an Eleven. If it weren't for Lulu, Suzaku would've lived out his entire life killing for Britannia and helping no one.

And if it hadn't been for Suzaku, Lelouch would have been completely different and probably lost his sister right in the beginning.
Suzaku is flawed, yes, but I don't see any problem with that.

I also recall Suzaku saying something like the ends don't justify the means when he was criticizing Zero and the Black Knights, but he himself was killing in order to eventually help Japan. Total hypocrite.

Suzaku always tried to avoid killing in the beginning.
And in the second season... well, I completely agree with Levy there. Suzaku is only human.
He is not perfect, but as someone who adores him, Lelouch, Clovis and many other characters with very questionable morals and methods, that really doesn't bother me.

[Levy]

With the premise that I believe that war is always evil, I find quite natural that a soldier would kill other soldiers or terrorists still thinking terrorism is something wrong, since terrorism aims civilians.
But the Suzaku that was saying this was someone completely different from ZR Suzaku.

ZR Suzaku is someone that has accepted the philosophy of 'the ends justify the means' but considering all he's gone through (mostly because of Lulu's action, altought the most dramatic one were not intentional - Euphie, FREJA) it's understandable that he has loss all of his faith in his older principles, and changed so much. The annoying part is that you see very few of his change developed on screen ^^;

I kinda blame Suzaku for having allowed Lelouch to chose Mt. Fuji and Japan as the battlefield for his final clash, considering the damage his country would have recieved from it, but coming to that point, he was probably ready to accept anything Lelouch would have planned for them in order to accomplish his goal. He's the sword, after all, not the brain.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

.
Yes, he was a very flawed character, but I probably wouldn't have adored him nearly as much if he had been "perfect".
Had he been right, then Lelouch would have been wrong, and their friendship would have been a lot less interesting. Not to mention that Code Geass really didn't need a completely "white" character with an important role.

and here we go again, my dear, someone loves the winners, someone loves the losers. We dig the second one, it seems XDD

[Autumn Demon]

I often forget that Suzaku went through the trauma of killing his father in his early childhood. But that may've been the single greatest thing he did in his life. His father would've ordered all Japanese to die before submitting to Britannian rule, so his death may have saved the people of Japan.

[demon_god04]

Even Lelouch mentioned as such, that because of Kururugi, Japan had adopted a resistance until the end stance which would have torn the country apart as the Chinese federation and the Europeans would have gotten involved as well if it dragged on long enough. What Suzaku did in killing his father when looking at the bigger picture was not wrong.

Originally Posted by Levy

With the premise that I believe that war is always evil, I find quite natural that a soldier would kill other soldiers or terrorists still thinking terrorism is something wrong, since terrorism aims civilians.
But the Suzaku that was saying this was someone completely different from ZR Suzaku.

Except that some of our greatest advancement came, directly or indirectly, from either technology developed to wage war or from war itself.

[Levy]

I'm a bit confused about all the Genbu story, it's featured in one of the latest novels, if I remember correctly, but even there the situation was a bit complicate...

And Suzaku might have failed constantly, but he was always thinking that what he was trying to do would have really changed things for the better, even if all the kicks he recieved from life had made him more and more bitter and disilluded. The majority of human beings have weaknesses and bias, and have second thoughts, but it goes with being human, I won't call them hypocrite for this less.

Maybe the only character in Code that has no hidden/subconcious reasons/personal bias for his actions is Schneizel. And he's quite far from moral integrity...

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Except that some of our greatest advancement came, directly or indirectly, from either technology developed to wage war or from war itself.

What this has to do with Suzaku, I haven't understand. If you are addressing my hate for war, oh well, it's a matter of opinions and way off-topic, but I'm kinda persuaded that we'll live in a much more decent world if the same money nations invest in the war were directly aimed at reasearc. But Lloyd kinda agrees with you, instead

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Levy

What this has to do with Suzaku, I haven't understand. If you are addressing my hate for war, oh well, it's a matter of opinions and way off-topic, but I'm kinda persuaded that we'll live in a much more decent world if the same money nations invest in the war were directly aimed at reasearc. But Lloyd kinda agrees with you, instead

Nothing, I was addressing the offtopic comment on war. But our history has proved that while wars are destructive it has advanced our society and technology. Many house hold appliances have technology originated either from technology developed for war or the space program. Hell, the women equality movement gained ground during WW1.

[Levy]

With war, it comes, IMO, too much of a waste of human lifes and destruction of the environment, that does not outbalance all the possible positive achievement. But that's way off topic.

Alright, back to Suzaku.

What Suzaku did in killing his father when looking at the bigger picture was not wrong.

Yeah, Genbu was most certainly quite an ass, althought for my partial (because I know there's stuff I haven't go through already) knowledge, there's also some plans about killing Nunnaly/using Lelouch that have motivated Suzaku in killing his father, and then it's hard to tell wich kind of perception of the bigger picture Suzaku might have had at that time. And I guess, not such a clear one... and this surely adds to his primary sense of guilt.

[demon_god04]

It is not about the motivations for the actions or the kind of person that Genbu was. Looking at the results it turned out better for Japan then the alternative.

Originally Posted by Levy

With war, it comes, IMO, too much of a waste of human lifes and destruction of the environment, that does not outbalance all the possible positive achievement. But that's way off topic.

War is also somewhat of an answer to over population. We destroy the environment ever since we have developed agriculture and lived in larger settlements. It is not war that does that.

[Levy]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

It is not about the motivations for the actions or the kind of person that Genbu was. Looking at the results it turned out better for Japan then the alternative.

Most probably, yes, but Suzaku seems far to have elaborated the assassination of his father in such a rational manner, and he still percieves this as something 'wrong' from his side

We destroy the environment ever since we have developed agriculture and lived in larger settlements. It is not war that does that.

We are parasites of nature, that's for sure, but war brings to a degradation of the environment that is faster and much more dramatic than the one we experience in peace time.

anyway, we are very much off topic. and according to the increase of the moderation level we had in this days, I think it's better end this here, because I doubth we'll ever come to any agreement. Surprinsing, isn't it?
nah, I've told you already that we are the opposites

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Levy

Most probably, yes, but Suzaku seems far to have elaborated the assassination of his father in such a rational manner, and he still percieves this as something 'wrong' from his side





We are parasites of nature, that's for sure, but war brings to a degradation of the environment that is faster and much more dramatic than the one we experience in peace time.

anyway, we are very much off topic. and according to the increase of the moderation level we had in this days, I think it's better end this here, because I doubth we'll ever come to any agreement. Surprinsing, isn't it?
nah, I've told you already that we are the opposites

Yeah it is offtopic but so is talking about Suzaku in that it is more appropriate in the Suzaku thread rather then here. But I just have to reply to that because, war does cause alot of devastation but usually on the population and in population centers. Certainly there are damage to the country side but it is on a different scale to the degradation of the environment brought about by other means. In that it is not as wide scale in terms of the environment. We have wiped out whole species not during wartime but during "peace" time. We have irresponsibly and drastically changed the environment for money in peace time. Look at the development in South America, sections of the forest that the local natives depend on were cleared for farms to make some fast cash. But because of the clearing of such large tracks of land as well as for roads left the forest unable to recover in those areas and the natives where pushed into smaller areas and forced to grow cash crops in smaller gardens and when the farms were abandoned the forest could not regrow. That is just one case example, there are infinitely more, I am not saying war is good but "evil" is the wrong label. Very few things in life are so easy that you can tag them with such convenient labels such as good and evil. If you go by that then we may as well label humanity as "evil".

But I guess this is about as much as I want to say in this off topic rant.

[Levy]

wow, I've found something we definitely agree on: what humans do to the enviroment for their own gainment is something we should be ashamed of.
Still, I can't find not even a single note of positivity in war, and I assure you it's one of the very few things I label as 'evil'.

- and ok, following posters, move this to the Suzaku thread, it's better.

[demon_god04]

Still, I can't find not even a single note of positivity in war, and I assure you it's one of the very few things I label as 'evil'.

I already pointed out, Women's equality movement gained ground during WW1, and Canada was recognized as a country rather then just part of the British empire at the end of WW1. WW2 revitalized the US and brought it out of the depression and made it into a superpower, Nuclear power was also developed during WW2 as well as the jet engines I believe. Those are just a few things off the top of my head.