Dragon Ball Super (Manga)

[Kanon]

Spoiler for 38:

Kefla is in. The one about to face her at the end of the chapter is... Gohan.

No summary so no clue what happened in the rest of the chapter.

[foxbox360]

gohan rekt next chapter?

[Tong]

Interesting matchup, power level wise SSJ Kefla outclasses Gohan by a large margin, but we dont know exactly by how much, his unlocked potential could've grown stronger after training with Piccolo.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Tong

Interesting matchup, power level wise SSJ Kefla outclasses Gohan by a large margin, but we dont know exactly by how much, his unlocked potential could've grown stronger after training with Piccolo.

Then people complaining about Caulifla,Kale and Kefla would be hypocritical.

If Gohan beats her in strength or speed, screw the manga. If he tricks her thats fine.

[Kanon]

This is rushed as fuck.

Spoiler for 38:

Kale single-handedly eliminated all the remaining Universes except U6, U7 and U11. She even one shot Aniraza. The namekians didn't get to do anything. They probably got like five panels of screen time in the entire tournament.

Vegeta and Toppo were almost eliminated by her too. They were blown off the stage but Toppo was rescued by Dyspo and Vegeta used Vegetto's ki blade to stay in.

Fighters remaining: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, 17, Frieza, Roshi, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, the colonel, and Kefla.

Kefla eliminated six pride troopers at the same time. Rest of the eliminations were done by Kale, except Cabba's who sacrificed himself to give her the potara. As it turns out, Caulifla had them because she stole them since they looked valuable.

Unlike what I thought, they actually told us Kale is a legendary saiyan that appears once very 1000 years. A "devil" saiyan whose uncontrollable ever increasing power ends up killing them eventually. They don't say "Super Saiyan" because Cabba is the one saying this and they didn't know the term in his universe, but it's obvious she's a LSSJ.

[alex_drian]

lol, that was terrible, I wonder if Toyotaro is excited for the incoming movie, because, you know, second thought, if you bring to Broly to this kind of fight, you better can expect this outcome (well, the now-no-canon Broly). But yeah, is not fun like that, screw the powerlevels, I like more with a little time for everyone, even if is only to job to U7, just see to fucking Aniraza.

[Sixth]

You know what? The manga writer should have just make Jiren or Goku or Vegeta power up from the beginning and their aura alone accidentally pushed 90% of the fighters from the arena so we can have the main fight straight away.

Seriously, why write battle royale if the manga writer has no intention to do so?

[Slayerx]

On the one hand, i still think the U6 saiyans are being handled a lot better here than they were in the anime. Seeing Kale tear through opponents is fun, and using the earings as a work around to end her rampage is actually pretty clever; its also funny that it wasn't champa's plot, but just a mere chance created from Caulifla being a thief (Granted would have liked it if it was Cabba's idea to use the earing's rather than Champa's). Also Kale not gaining control of her power would even create potential future story potential for her if they wanted to keep going with her. One of my annoyances with how they handled the girls in the anime is they burned through too much development potential, leaving less to work with in the future if they wanted to come back to these characters. I feel like U6 saiyans themselves are being handled really well

Now, on the OTHER hand, the tournament itself is still abysmal. Yes seeing Kale wreck opponents was fun, but not EVERYONE. As others had said, if you are just gonna eliminate everyone so quickly then you pretty much undermine the entire point of doing a battle royal. And Heck Kale taking out that Fusion is only a big deal if the audience KNOWS that fusion is supposed to be really powerful. Seeing Kale almost eliminate both Vegeta and Toppo before they could go all out was actually kinda of funny and a momentary shock, but that's because we know they are two of the bigger players in this fight. You got to establish the powerful players before you eliminate them. Not to mention with universes getting wiped out in quick succession just undermines the tragedy that is supposed to be happening here. It actually would have been so much better if that fusion got a chance to shine and act as a threat to the other fighters, before being easily eliminated by a berserk Kale. So ya, and otherwise awesome development in this tournament is getting soured by the incredibly rushed pacing.

If Gohan beats her in strength or speed, screw the manga. If he tricks her thats fine.

Yes, While i love the idea of Gohan getting to shine against a power house, Between Kale's berserk power and the power boost that fusion gives, Gohan should be hopelessly outclassed. This fight will have to be really clever for it to work... And i do think there is a potential work around that Gohan could use to win; so i got hope this will work out

[Kanon]

I said it a while ago, but I don't see the point in introducing so many characters and going through the trouble of coming up with designs for them only to have them do nothing. The manga just makes me appreciate the anime much more in retrospect. I hated that everybody basically took turns at U7 and U6 fighters in the anime, but at least it allowed us to see each contestant fight.

And what's up with manga Jiren? He's suddenly turning into anime Jiren despite being portrayed as a real hero before.

[Blueknight78]

ok, after read the currently chapter, really being honest i really can't get peoples claim the manga being "better than anime", this arc is being totally rushed and disappointed with characters being throwed away in the speed of light, no real good battles, all the jokes are not fun, i would rater prefer see the comic fights in the anime rater than that rush thing being made in the manga, i'm really totally disappointed, i've already had a "hard time with the future trunks arc" and now the power tournamente is being even worst, even the way the "potaro was allowed" sounded so cheap compared with anime where at last they told which everyone could "try use the potaros" not just universe 6, this guy doing the manga is really not that "good" as some peoples claimed he really seens to be "terrible" at doing battles and changes" while some changes looked better or cool many others are looking terrible and boring.

Really very disappointed with the manga, i still prefer a lot the anime version rater tham that rush thing called manga.

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I said it a while ago, but I don't see the point in introducing so many characters and going through the trouble of coming up with designs for them only to have them do nothing. The manga just makes me appreciate the anime much more in retrospect. I hated that everybody basically took turns at U7 and U6 fighters in the anime, but at least it allowed us to see each contestant fight.

And what's up with manga Jiren? He's suddenly turning into anime Jiren despite being portrayed as a real hero before.

Like I said numerous times already, they introduced all that bunch of cannon fodder because of the format of the tournament and the anime, that *NEEDED* all those episodes to stretch the saga as much as possible. The manga doesnt need that, at all.

They are probably never going to appear or matter at all in the series anymore, even in the anime. So them getting destroyed like that in the manga is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Unless Goku needs all the Universe's energy for the multi-Universe Genki Dama to defeat the ultimate bad guy

Originally Posted by Slayerx

And Heck Kale taking out that Fusion is only a big deal if the audience KNOWS that fusion is supposed to be really powerful. Seeing Kale almost eliminate both Vegeta and Toppo before they could go all out was actually kinda of funny and a momentary shock, but that's because we know they are two of the bigger players in this fight. You got to establish the powerful players before you eliminate them.

Yes, the robot fusion wasnt a big deal then if someone who is at least SSGSS Goku/Vegeta, Golden Freeza level could easily defeat it. This just estabilishes and enforces that majority of the other universes cant compare to the likes of U6, U7 and U11 in terms of raw combat power.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Tong

Like I said numerous times already, they introduced all that bunch of cannon fodder because of the format of the tournament and the anime, that *NEEDED* all those episodes to stretch the saga as much as possible. The manga doesnt need that, at all.

We know Toyotaro is given plenty of freedom, why didn't he just change the format of the tournament to make it more exciting and manageable then? If the fodders were just created for the anime like you claim, it should have been no problem.

Even with the current format, there were better ways to handle things than to have Kale wipe out 4 Universes in quick succession with absolutely no impact. This chapter made the Universes getting erased look trivial.

[Wandering Soul]

I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, Kale's rampage does help cut out a lot of the bloat of the tournament. On the other, it also makes the battle royale format even more moot than it already was.

[n0m@n]

Perhaps Toyotaro is planning to end this arc by the time the new movie hits the cinema.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Kanon

We know Toyotaro is given plenty of freedom, why didn't he just change the format of the tournament to make it more exciting and manageable then? If the fodders were just created for the anime like you claim, it should have been no problem.

Even with the current format, there were better ways to handle things than to have Kale wipe out 4 Universes in quick succession with absolutely no impact. This chapter made the Universes getting erased look trivial.

because he can't move away from the guideline Toriyama wrote for the anime. So what he can do is just shorten it.
and this is actually better, as the power level gap was too close in the anime with so many fodder in other universal able to give trouble to God-Tier ppl Goku and Vegeta.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Tong

Like I said numerous times already, they introduced all that bunch of cannon fodder because of the format of the tournament and the anime, that *NEEDED* all those episodes to stretch the saga as much as possible. The manga doesnt need that, at all.

They are probably never going to appear or matter at all in the series anymore, even in the anime. So them getting destroyed like that in the manga is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Unless Goku needs all the Universe's energy for the multi-Universe Genki Dama to defeat the ultimate bad guy

Just because the manga doesn't NEED to drag out fights does NOT mean its a good idea to rush it. WE have 8 universes worth of potential for fantastic and creative fights and its all being squandered. Even fan favorite characters from dragonball are getting knocked out like regular old cannon fodder... And then there's the universal erasure. The entire point of introducing such a concept was to try and give this tournament high stakes, but having universes getting wiped out with little fanfare only serves to trivialize the threat. They might SAY the universes were erased, but it FEELS more like their people were just kicked out of the stadium. The break neck pace ends up undermining the entire narrative

Sure the anime may have dragged things out too much, but rushing through the story can be equally bad; both are different forms of bad pacing. A slower pacing allows for more chances for narrative and character development. It allows a chance to make the most of resources that the story presents. It allows for breathing space that can in turn help enhance the feelings that plot developments are meant to have on the reader. Rush through the story and it only makes it feel like nothing matters and we are just wasting time until we get to the final fight... and if that's what you are doing, then maybe you should have just skipped to the final fight in the first place and not even bother with everything else in the first place.

Yes, the robot fusion wasnt a big deal then if someone who is at least SSGSS Goku/Vegeta, Golden Freeza level could easily defeat it. This just estabilishes and enforces that majority of the other universes cant compare to the likes of U6, U7 and U11 in terms of raw combat power.

Originally Posted by azenable

because he can't move away from the guideline Toriyama wrote for the anime. So what he can do is just shorten it.
and this is actually better, as the power level gap was too close in the anime with so many fodder in other universal able to give trouble to God-Tier ppl Goku and Vegeta.

And exactly why SHOULDN'T the other universes have God-Tier fighters like Goku and Vegeta. Heck we even know that when it comes to universal ranks, Universe 7 is actually on the low end of the spectrum; it makes sense that other universes would have better fighters and not just fodder. But really, having the other universes have nothing but fodder only serves to make the world of dragonball feel SMALL. We have 12 universes, and yet only a small hand full of fighters actually matter and they all from just 3 different universes? The wasted potential there is immense. It just serves to make it feel utterly pointless to introduce a multiverse in the first place. There's a wealth of future story potential with introducing such a concept, but if so little of it actually matters then its just a waste

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by azenable

because he can't move away from the guideline Toriyama wrote for the anime. So what he can do is just shorten it.
and this is actually better, as the power level gap was too close in the anime with so many fodder in other universal able to give trouble to God-Tier ppl Goku and Vegeta.

Considering he changed the 3v3 format from anime to GoD battle royale in his work, I am sure he could find a way to realize Toriyama's guideline and at the same time, make it different.

For starter, he could just reduce the participant numbers for ToP or have other universes such as U4, U3, U9, U2 got erased off-screen because they have an extremely low mortal point that not even worth to be salvaged or have them exempted from ToP because they have a higher mortal point than U6,U7 and U11.

Also, reddit posters aren't joking when they said this chapter is a walking advertisement for the next Broly movie.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Even with the current format, there were better ways to handle things than to have Kale wipe out 4 Universes in quick succession with absolutely no impact. This chapter made the Universes getting erased look trivial.

Agreed. The anime made a proper send-off for those universes.

YouTube

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[Tong]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

And exactly why SHOULDN'T the other universes have God-Tier fighters like Goku and Vegeta.

Only one universe would be acceptable to have a god tier fighter, since Vados had already stated that one of them had a mortal who was stronger than a GoD, and that's U11.

And honestly, would it be even reasonable to have fighters who are near GoD level in other universes, besides U7 and U11?
Goku and Vegeta are only near that because Whis and Beerus personally trained them for a long time. Toppo is acceptable because he's a GoD candidate, so he probably went under the similar training. Kale is the legendary Saiyan, so shes defies standard powerlevels.

Also these powerlevels have already been estabilished waaaaay before ToP. In the U6 vs U7 tournament Hit was only SSG Goku level and he was their strongest fighter at the time.

Heck we even know that when it comes to universal ranks, Universe 7 is actually on the low end of the spectrum; it makes sense that other universes would have better fighters and not just fodder.

Pretty sure Mortal Level ranks the overall development/quality of the mortal living in that universe, not necessarially strength/power levels.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Tong

Only one universe would be acceptable to have a god tier fighter, since Vados had already stated that one of them had a mortal who was stronger than a GoD, and that's U11.

And honestly, would it be even reasonable to have fighters who are near GoD level in other universes, besides U7 and U11?
Goku and Vegeta are only near that because Whis and Beerus personally trained them for a long time. Toppo is acceptable because he's a GoD candidate, so he probably went under the similar training. Kale is the legendary Saiyan, so shes defies standard powerlevels.

Also these powerlevels have already been estabilished waaaaay before ToP. In the U6 vs U7 tournament Hit was only SSG Goku level and he was their strongest fighter at the time.


Pretty sure Mortal Level ranks the overall development/quality of the mortal living in that universe, not necessarially strength/power levels.

i totally disagree with you.

First point me where was stated which "only one person can ge on god levels???" never was stated it, the fact which we had some peoples around that level: goku, vegita, kale, toppo, hito and jiren is a proof which this statment is wrong.

the TOP was not about "raw power" but also "team work and tacticals" what happened in anime, master roshi was able to take 3 downs, despise being one of the most weaks, by just using tactics, that was one of the points, having everything rushed and break by just "raw power' like what is happening here, show how much bad and forget it was.

I can understand which you love much more the manga and bla bla bla but it don't means which this arc is being poor handed in compararion with anime and it defeating all the matter of the TOP itself by having peoples dropping like flies without do anything and all that rush.

Even if the majority of the fighters here where made just for this arc and never appear again, don't means which they must "poor worked and ignored" is pretty much the opposite because since they are living only for this arc which they must be awesome or good as possible to be at last remembered and not just "forget in the next chapter" because they where poor used".

Poor usage of characters is a "bad writing issue" too, just because they where made just for one arc don't means which all of them must be trashed and forget because "no ones cares" if they where really so crap them "don't create them in first place".

Since manga and anime are "totally different" and not just "the same canon universe"( like you can't use one to judge the other), then he could perfect talked with toryama about making changes in the TOP and removing most of the others universes and doing only what he wanted or can handle whcih is "few characters" battles or "singles 1x1 battles".

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Tong

Pretty sure Mortal Level ranks the overall development/quality of the mortal living in that universe, not necessarially strength/power levels.

Correct. Not sure why this misunderstanding keeps coming up.