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Old 2018-04-07, 07:14   Link #5441
Lucidrago
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Well I'm pretty sure that angels can lie. As long as they don't cross the line like having sex for pleasure or becoming evil. I'm pretty sure Irina can lie.
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Old 2018-04-07, 07:27   Link #5442
CCPDarkraiRules
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I think angels can lie because they would have to lie about God of the Bible been alive to the human believers who do not know.
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Old 2018-04-07, 09:13   Link #5443
DragonOsman
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Yeah, that's true. So angels can lie. But is sex for pleasure or being evil the only way? I guess they'd fall if they commit one of the Seven Deadly Sins.
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Old 2018-04-07, 09:50   Link #5444
godz
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Maybe in God's plan he did not see it necessary for the angels to live those experiences and the angels who did it were a direct offense to God's plan, for that reason they fall.
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Old 2018-04-07, 16:04   Link #5445
cyberdemon
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No there is many ways to fall. Azazel even warned Michael in volume 4 that he had to be careful of his speech about leading the children of God because he could fall from it.

There is a difference though between lying about the death of God and just not announcing it publicly. It was more a just need to know basis so they likely left it to the higher ups of the church to keep it from spreading. The reason wouldn't necessarily be impure either as look how the church trio reacted to the news initially. They were looking to protect the minds of their followers.
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Old 2018-04-07, 16:10   Link #5446
Lucidrago
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Going off of people's perceptions of the truth when you know the actual truth is basically no different from lying. Just because no one asked "Is God dead?" doesn't make what Michael and the other Seraphs did any less of a sin.
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Old 2018-04-07, 16:43   Link #5447
DragonOsman
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As Cyberdemon said, the reason they had for it wasn't a bad one. A lie spoken for the good of someone isn't really considered a lie.
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Old 2018-04-07, 17:22   Link #5448
thefreakmike
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More like, is not considered a sin
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Old 2018-04-07, 17:28   Link #5449
Lucidrago
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A lie spoken or a truth withheld for the good of others doesn't change it from what it is.
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Old 2018-04-07, 17:32   Link #5450
DragonOsman
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It's already a widely accepted notion in human society and people even say it as a life-lesson. That a lie spoken for the good of someone isn't a lie. You're even going to go against something already accepted widely by human society now?
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Old 2018-04-07, 17:54   Link #5451
cyberdemon
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A lie withheld for the sake of others is an act of compassion if done with pure intentions. Its the pure intentions that keep angels from falling. Lies like those of a tsundere which is how this subject was brought up tend to be selfish and personal in nature which are against the morals of an angel. To announce the truth of God's death meant that they had given up on their followers wellbeing which would have made them likely fall. To lie protected their followers physical and mental wellbeing hence they were able to prevent falling.
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Old 2018-04-07, 22:54   Link #5452
vietthai96
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Again it is depend on people point of view, so stop the debate. Some will think lie is a lie, no matter what the intention is. Some will think more complexity, pretty simple.
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Old 2018-04-07, 22:58   Link #5453
Lucidrago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonOsman View Post
It's already a widely accepted notion in human society and people even say it as a life-lesson. That a lie spoken for the good of someone isn't a lie. You're even going to go against something already accepted widely by human society now?
The world being flat was widely accepted by human society hundreds of years ago.

What if that pure intention of telling a lie or withholding a truth costs others to suffer? Like Asia? Can we say that causing Asia to be banned from the Church and causing an innocent girl to suffer be painted as good? Even though it led her to Issei and a happy life with friends she cares about, it still doesn't mean what happened to her will just go away.

Telling a lie, living a lie, or withholding a truth can be for the good of others but in keeping up the lie, it brings untold suffering on many. You ruin lives just to keep up the lie. You build up even more lies on top of the one you already told or the unspoken truth you've yet to reveal. Only some will realize that while they saved people from the truth, they also condemned others. They realize the castle they built on lies will crumble one day and when and if it does, everyone will suffer immensely.
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Old 2018-04-08, 00:14   Link #5454
Royalknightftw
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Angels, in my opinion, are designed to be more "collective " than other creatures in DxD. As cyberdemon stated, if they lie for their personal sake, then they will most likely fall however if they lie for the sake of others then the system of God would not consider it as a sin. It's not a matter whether lying is bad or not, it's a matter how the system of God perceive the lie
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Old 2018-04-08, 06:46   Link #5455
DragonOsman
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Yeah. And at the end of the day, this is subjective. Something perceived as good by some may be perceived as bad by others. Vali also said before that the peace Ise wants is bad for certain kinds of people or for people in certain situations. And to get that peace, there are lives that have to be ruined or simply just taken.
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