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Old 2016-02-09, 21:48   Link #41
Chichiryuushintei
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Diehauser didn't negate his attacks, he negated the effect of [Boost].

Uh, no. If you can dodge a punch, you dodge it, unless you're a dumbass.

Ise curbstomped Riz with DxD. With CCQ alone, he was as good as dead.

So any fight that gives Ise some trouble is bulllshit?
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Old 2016-02-09, 22:10   Link #42
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@sunsengnim: err uhm... Diehauser is Maou Class in skill, experience and power while Issei Maou class only on skill and power not experience, he hasn't gained enough experience/training in facing Diehauser because for goodness sake he is only a year old being Dragon/Devil so I don't expect him face toe on toe against the Champion who stay top for many and many years without using the cheat item only using his skill, power "from his clan and others" and experience/training" by himself alone. =_=


uhm you know the reason that Diehauser can evade Issei's punches is due to his experience alone even if you have OP power/Gift/Weapon without experience and training it is very useless we don't know how many years that Diehauser honed/trained his skill to perfection which the own right is very op geez, for freaking sake "even if the said ability is broken/bullxxxx without necessary experience/training to back it out it's pretty freaking useless op skill or what you call utterly broken skill". >_<
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Old 2016-02-09, 23:48   Link #43
sunsengnim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chichiryuushintei View Post
Diehauser didn't negate his attacks, he negated the effect of [Boost].

Uh, no. If you can dodge a punch, you dodge it, unless you're a dumbass.

Ise curbstomped Riz with DxD. With CCQ alone, he was as good as dead.

So any fight that gives Ise some trouble is bulllshit?
That's what i meant with nullified i thought that was obvious stop nitpicking.

And no if he's as strong as your making him out to be Diehauser would not dodge a punch from Issei UNLESS it would hurt when connected.

It's wasted effort to dodge something that would not harm you in the first place.

I'm not fighting the point that Diehauser can dodge Issei's attacks i'm fighting the point of WHY would he do so if as you implied they wouldn't hurt him?

With bullshit i meant Rizevim's SGC and Diehausers worthlessness don't say things i never implied nor said.

It's either Issei gets curb stomped or it's the enemy there's no balance it makes for horrible fights and Issei ALWAYS conveniently forgets everything else in his arsenal in these situations.
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Old 2016-02-10, 00:49   Link #44
1Dark/Blade
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Ummm... Hi! Im new here but i have one question...
So... If ise could damage Rizevim in v.18 whit the ability of penetrate...
That doesn't mean that issei has enough power to damage a maou class? And thats the reason why diehauser
Invalidated his ability and dodged his punchs beacause they can at least hurt him?...
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Old 2016-02-10, 01:12   Link #45
Dragon Sin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Dark/Blade View Post
Ummm... Hi! Im new here but i have one question...
So... If ise could damage Rizevim in v.18 whit the ability of penetrate...
That doesn't mean that issei has enough power to damage a maou class? And thats the reason why diehauser
Invalidated his ability and dodged his punchs beacause they can at least hurt him?...
Welcome, and yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volume 20
If I was able to land a direct hit on him with [Penetrate], the damage would be transmitted to him directly! —But, I couldn’t land a hit on him! Every single one of my attacks had been evaded!
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Old 2016-02-10, 01:37   Link #46
1Dark/Blade
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Well so...
If Rizevim is stronger than diehauser...
That doesn't mean that the damage would be worst?...
Im just saying that ise's league is somwhere near to a maou class...
So i dont think he would be stomped so easily... (without worthless of course)

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Old 2016-02-10, 02:54   Link #47
Ariel_Saeba
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Simply put, Diehauser has more experience (like kusa said) and he is on the defensive, with the purpose of testing how far Ise can go without any means of giving him any severe injuries. On the other hand, Ise is very much used to the concept of brawling, where the respective opponents are just hitting each other without a particular means of dodging (his fight against Sairaorg and Grendel very much showed this), so this makes the fight against Diehauser exhausting his energy rather than hurting him.

Quote:
If Rizevim is stronger than diehauser...
That doesn't mean that the damage would be worst?...
In what field? For pure power, Ise in CCQ can technically finish Rizevim and Diehauser with Penetrate, but the thing is how he will hit them in the first place since they would just dodge or negate his abilities. As kusa said, he does not have much experience and is very much used to brawl rather than fight pragmatically when he thinks he can overpower his enemies (with some exceptions, like the first fight against Riser, Cao Cao's second clash, and during the assault at the wizards' base of operations in Vol. 14. The truth is, Ise is more dangerous when he fights using his head rather than just punches his way out since he can come with unexpected tactics and techniques to bring down his opponents). Granted, his judgment was clouded by the fact that his parents were kidnapped, so he chose to go along with his rage instead of arranging tactics to counter them.
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Old 2016-02-10, 05:27   Link #48
Chichiryuushintei
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Originally Posted by sunsengnim View Post
That's what i meant with nullified i thought that was obvious stop nitpicking.

And no if he's as strong as your making him out to be Diehauser would not dodge a punch from Issei UNLESS it would hurt when connected.

It's wasted effort to dodge something that would not harm you in the first place.

I'm not fighting the point that Diehauser can dodge Issei's attacks i'm fighting the point of WHY would he do so if as you implied they wouldn't hurt him?

With bullshit i meant Rizevim's SGC and Diehausers worthlessness don't say things i never implied nor said.

It's either Issei gets curb stomped or it's the enemy there's no balance it makes for horrible fights and Issei ALWAYS conveniently forgets everything else in his arsenal in these situations.
What am I making him out to be? All I said was that Diehauser would beat Ise even without Worthless. Not that he'd stomp him with his pinky.

I didn't imply anything. Read the line above. That's all I said.

The only thing Ise didn't use in v20 was the Longinus Smasher. And that's not something he can just use whenever.

@Kusa: Ise is not Maou-Class in anything.

@1Dark/Blade: The reason Ise was able to hurt Riz was because he was "rusty". Afterwards he tanked Michael's all-out, rage-fueled attack without harm. Ise wouldn't be able to do shit after then.
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Old 2016-02-10, 05:33   Link #49
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@Chichiryuushintei: uhm..... I mention Issei is Maou/Ultimate Class "Longinus Smasher and DxD Mode" on power that's it however in experience, fighting and etc he is still far from it. =_=


also If Rizevim is rusty you can't take the factor that Issei was clouded by anger according Ariel_Saeba so he can't fight to full potential added to the fact he haven't master Triana, CCQ and his newly unlock DxD mode, beside Issei is just year Devil/Dragon hybrid. -_-
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Old 2016-02-10, 05:38   Link #50
Chichiryuushintei
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You were talking about DxD mode then, okay, sorry.
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Old 2016-02-10, 05:41   Link #51
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@Chichiryuushintei: uhm don't be sorry I just forgot to mention it on my post earlier so I am really sorry about it. T_T
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Old 2016-02-10, 09:44   Link #52
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if a person could evade an incoming attack, it's better to evade it than take it head on or blocking it.

in martial arts i would prefer the enemy attack and then i will do the counterattack. no matter how weak that strike i will create an opening if i block it, or i will still damaged if i took that weak strike.

in DxD, let's remember when Cao-Cao eyes get hitted by Samael blood inside the bullet. he could evade it, but he blocked it.
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Old 2016-02-10, 10:00   Link #53
Ariel_Saeba
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@LowCholesterol very much agree with what you've said and that is what was actually done by Rizevim and Diehauser in their battle against Vali and Ise respectively.

Also, Ishi seems to have a habit of incorporating short stories and spin-off elements in the main story. Since the battle with Trihexa will be a major event, will he possibly include development that happens in the side stories? (I was hoping that Azazel will appear wearing Typhon's armor but that is less likely, since it will be very broken and probably the deal is already expired as of the next volume).
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Old 2016-02-10, 20:19   Link #54
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@Chichi: In the fight against Rizevim, Ise wasn't in tip-top condition and also probably couldn't use Penetrate either, even if he'd wanted to. And Rizevim was also invalidating part of DxD mode's power - as Ddraig said, Sacred Gear Canceler did work; it's just that it couldn't negate DxD's power completely because it's Ophis' power and Ophis' power is infinite. And while Ise would still have lost to Diehauser (is that the right spelling?) in Cardinal Cardinal Queen even without Worthless being involved, at least we both agree that he would've had an easier time, right? And since even Rizevim lost to Ise in DxD mode, I'm pretty sure Diehauser would also lose against him in that form.

Also, to me, it makes sense to think that Diehauser dodged all of Ise's Penetrate-infused attacks because he could sense that getting hit by them would be bad. And in the same train of thought, it also makes sense to think that maybe Worthless won't be able to make Penetrate "worthless". Sacred Gear Canceler also couldn't negate it. [If Diehauser gets hit by a Penetrate-infused attack, it really would be bad for him. But he could still try to use Worthless on it afterwords if he has time, which in most cases he wouldn't.]

And I'm with Kusa about Ise's experience-level. And Ariel is also right on the money with the brawl argument. Also, in power, Ise's said to be a High-Class Devil, even though by official ranking he's a Middle-Class Devil. Depending on where he stands in the High-Class Devil power tiers, he could theoretically handle at least the lower-level Maou-Class people. Diehauser is also a bad opponent for him to fight - really bad match-up.
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Old 2016-02-11, 07:06   Link #55
Chichiryuushintei
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Uh, no. In v20 Ise was in full-power. Asia was healing him constantly.

SGC didn't cancel part of DxD's power. It was too much for it to cancel.

Of course he'd have an easier time. Just like how anyone would have had an easier time against Ise if he didn't Boost.

He wouldn't take any extreme damage. He was able to take Ise's Dragon Shots.
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Old 2016-02-11, 10:41   Link #56
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Personally the thing I'm wondering the most is ... how the DxD team are going to deal with the threat of Trihexa being removed from it's seal.

After all ... I doubt that sealing it again is possible ... since it would only delay this issue, since someone would probably try to awaken it again and destroying it is probably not going to happen as well, since it would require the power of full Ophis and Great Red to achieve that - with entire world of DxD being the cost of that fight.

With Ise being in a slightly 'weakened\ state due to using the Diabolos Dragon Form the DxD team won't be able to relay on Ise's full strength (which is my speculation - since I doubt that he is going to quickly recover from the side effects of using that form - also froma plot point of view - it will give the other characters in the story - like Vali - to portray the results of their own ' training / power development )

I also wonder what kind of goal the remaining Evil Dragons have in this - since I doubt that they have the same goal that Rizevim did of traveling to the world where the goodness of Oppai came from and something like them wanting to destroy the world - would be too cliche IMHO.
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Old 2016-02-11, 11:17   Link #57
Chichiryuushintei
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Noone of the younger generation could help against Trihexa. No, not even Ise in DxD mode. And yes, the only thing that can be done is sealing the thing.

Apophis made it pretty clear they'll go on with the "other-world invasion" plan.
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Old 2016-02-11, 20:49   Link #58
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Chichi, don't you know that Asia's powers can't help you recover from exhaustion completely? Even if Ise's wounds were healed, there's still mental exhaustion and all. He wasn't fully healed, only physically. And his stamina also couldn't be restored, or else he'd have used Penetrate on Rizevim while in DxD mode. So no, I highly doubt Ise was in full-power. He'd have to take a really good rest for that first, on top of letting Asia heal him.

And I'm remembering how Ddraig told Rizevim that his ability did work on DxD mode. He also added that it couldn't be negated completely because Ophis' power is infinite. I took that to mean that it was at least partially negated. Which also means we didn't see the full power of DxD mode in that fight.

I do agree with you about Trihexa, though. It has to be resealed.

@Chirs: I was having the same thoughts as you are right now while reading Rosario+Vampire II when we were thinking about how Alucard would be taken care of. Tsukune and Moka as full-fledged Shinso Vampires took out Alucard, but I don't that can work here. Like you said, the only people who can defeat Trihexa are (complete) Ophis and Great-Red. But if either of those two fought it, the world could be destroyed, so it's a really bad idea.

I don't think any other people would be daring or crazy enough to release Trihexa again after it's resealed here, though, hopefully, so I think resealing it is the best option right now. And luckily, Rose has a spell to do just that.
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Old 2016-02-11, 23:14   Link #59
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I don't think any other people would be daring or crazy enough to release Trihexa again after it's resealed here, though, hopefully, so I think resealing it is the best option right now. And luckily, Rose has a spell to do just that.
Well ... you just brought up the reason why I doubt the whole resealing scenario is actually going to work - at least in the form that you presented.

The reason is ... because it all sounds too easy and convenient and at least to me, would be a little anticlimactic way to end this arc.

Of course I'm aware that the actual realization of this scenario is definitely more difficult then it sounds to be ... but honestly I don't expect that Rosswisse's spell to actually completely work on resealing Trihexa since it sounds too good that something that she has developed when she was younger and wasn't even aware of Trihexa's actual existence would work completely well without any side effects appearing.

In fact I'm more willing to bet that it's going to have some effect on reducing Trihexa's power, but after using it some other side effects are going to appear as well ... causing the DxD team to have to revise their initial plan ... on the scene...
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Old 2016-02-12, 03:50   Link #60
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I think we can all agree, regardless of our standings, that the next volume won't have any real tension (apart from Azazel probably dying) since we all know it's gonna end well for everyone involved in the 'light side' (how ironic considering demons are considered "black")
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