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Old 2017-06-26, 19:07   Link #41
Lucidrago
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@Osman I was just saying that it wasn't confirmed that Regulus Nemea's BtB caused the user to go berserk. Because Regulus is different from the two Heavenly Dragons. BtB would be similar to JD, but I doubt if it's as strong as JD. Who knows? It might cause the possessor to go berserk. But at the same time, it might not. While BtB and JD are similar, they are different.

@Sparda And Issei's sadness and anger would act as a catalyst for JD. JD was never meant to be controlled. It was just a forceful releasing of the Heavenly Dragons' power that put the possessors at the level of gods. And that kind of power calls for a heavy price. When was it ever stated that you just needed to control your anger to control JD? Because I don't remember it stating the past possessors being angry. Now I remember the past possessors drowning themselves in power and recklessly using it. Vali wasn't controlling his anger, he was using his demonic powers to keep the floodwaters at bay for a few minutes while he used JD. When you're surrounded by negative emotions, I really don't think it makes a difference whether you're angry or not when you're drowning in those negative emotions. You might need something that's way stronger than all those negative emotions like Issei's shock and pain at losing Asia again to still be yourself in that sea of negative emotions. It's more like you would need a very powerful emotion like Issei to overcome those negative emotions. Otherwise, you'll drown in the power that is JD.
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Old 2017-06-26, 19:12   Link #42
Sparda4
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Well Domination and Supremacy are very similar, Supremacy is being above everyone while Domination is controlling everything around you ( Atleast that's what the dictionary says) so i'm thinking Issei's going to come out on top not because he's the king but because of the trait of Domination
Spoiler for Dont't open:
.

Now about Saji vs Issei and the match as a whole Issei's going to win no doubt about it but i'm thinking this fight is going to be the trigger for a lot of "problems" on both sides.
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Old 2017-06-26, 20:21   Link #43
Tbolt
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There are a dozen things that could have been removed from Ravel. Doubt in herself, Doubt in Ise, Doubt in the team, Doubt in her strategy, Doubt in being able to really go all no mater who the opponent is (friend or foe). I for one see nothing ominous in that line but then again I'm not one to go crazy looking for bad things to happen.
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Old 2017-06-26, 22:04   Link #44
Gary29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafoam View Post
Still no cover? I see that in terms of pages, it's almost as long as volume 22, and longer than 20, which means it should be pretty detailed for the fights.
The cover should be out July 1st if Ishibumi follows the pattern of the last few volumes. Or June 30th depending on timezones.
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Old 2017-06-26, 22:34   Link #45
Lucidrago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparda4 View Post
Well Domination and Supremacy are very similar, Supremacy is being above everyone while Domination is controlling everything around you ( Atleast that's what the dictionary says) so i'm thinking Issei's going to come out on top not because he's the king but because of the trait of Domination
Spoiler for Dont't open:
.

Now about Saji vs Issei and the match as a whole Issei's going to win no doubt about it but i'm thinking this fight is going to be the trigger for a lot of "problems" on both sides.
Well Issei's going to be on top in more ways than one.
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Old 2017-06-26, 23:39   Link #46
B214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
@Osman I was just saying that it wasn't confirmed that Regulus Nemea's BtB caused the user to go berserk. Because Regulus is different from the two Heavenly Dragons. BtB would be similar to JD, but I doubt if it's as strong as JD. Who knows? It might cause the possessor to go berserk. But at the same time, it might not. While BtB and JD are similar, they are different.

@Sparda And Issei's sadness and anger would act as a catalyst for JD. JD was never meant to be controlled. It was just a forceful releasing of the Heavenly Dragons' power that put the possessors at the level of gods. And that kind of power calls for a heavy price. When was it ever stated that you just needed to control your anger to control JD? Because I don't remember it stating the past possessors being angry. Now I remember the past possessors drowning themselves in power and recklessly using it. Vali wasn't controlling his anger, he was using his demonic powers to keep the floodwaters at bay for a few minutes while he used JD. When you're surrounded by negative emotions, I really don't think it makes a difference whether you're angry or not when you're drowning in those negative emotions. You might need something that's way stronger than all those negative emotions like Issei's shock and pain at losing Asia again to still be yourself in that sea of negative emotions. It's more like you would need a very powerful emotion like Issei to overcome those negative emotions. Otherwise, you'll drown in the power that is JD.
This is from Volume 11, regarding the BTB from Azazel.
Quote:
“Judging from the system, it is possible. If it’s Regulus Nemea or a creature-type sealed in Sacred Gear, it will be called [Breakdown the Beast], which is written as "Beast of Domination" in Japanese. Though the Heavenly-Dragon’s Juggernaut-Drive is more powerful. That is special. Well these are very dangerous so you shouldn’t use them even if you can. Just like Juggernaut-Drive, it will drain your life force and eventually kill you after going berserk.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparda4 View Post
Well Domination and Supremacy are very similar, Supremacy is being above everyone while Domination is controlling everything around you ( Atleast that's what the dictionary says) so i'm thinking Issei's going to come out on top not because he's the king but because of the trait of Domination
Spoiler for Dont't open:
.

Now about Saji vs Issei and the match as a whole Issei's going to win no doubt about it but i'm thinking this fight is going to be the trigger for a lot of "problems" on both sides.
I'm kinda confused here. Ise already discarded the path of domination when he obtained the CCQ.

Quote:
“I, who is about to awaken, am the Sekiryuutei who has discarded the principle of domination.”
The one who said anything about domination is Vali.

Quote:
“I walk the road of domination with infinite destruction and by piercing through the imaginary dream. –I shall become a pure Emperor of the Dragon…..”

Last edited by B214; 2017-06-27 at 09:39.
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Old 2017-06-27, 06:28   Link #47
DragonOsman
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Ah, yeah, that's right; Ise discarded the principle of domination and Vali embraced it (but wasn't the Hakuryuukou's supposed to be supremacy? Or am I misremembering there, too?). Ise is all about righteousness and "the path shining in true crimson light" now. Thanks for the reminder. But either way, supremacy isn't right for Ise. He needs to put his foot down in front of Ravel when it comes to this.

But I'd made a blunder in two of my past posts; the expression was referencing should be "like oil and water". My bad there.

@Lucidrago: Thanks for the quote from Azazel on Breakdown the Beast. I stand corrected, then: Breakdown the Beast can make the user go berserk. I guess Sairaorg is different because Regulus Nemea isn't really "his" Sacred Gear? But either way, Heavenly Dragon FTW since the Juggernaut Drive is more powerful.

Since the Cardinal Crimson Full Drive and Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive are alternatives to the Juggernaut Drive, except without the danger from going berserk, hopefully if there are successors to the Sekiryuutei after Ise, they'll be able to use their equivalent of the Cardinal Crimson Full Drive without negative emotions since they should be gone from the Boosted Gear now (a part of Ise's consciousness will be in the Boosted Gear, but without any negative emotions - in other words it'll be like the two strongest Sekiryuutei (can't remember the woman's name, but I think the man's was Barzak or something) since they were completely normal and sane. For successors to the Hakuryuukou coming after Vali, though, as Vali tamed those negative emotions and dominated them, those successors also shouldn't go berserk.
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Old 2017-06-27, 06:59   Link #48
Sparda4
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I wonder if CCQ and EJOD could be unlocked by future users i mean Issei and Vali will be in the sacred gear not fully just a part but still they would exist in the SG, so in theory the future users could learn the forms CCQ is iffy but EJOD is possible.

And i agree with you on Issei putting his foot down with Ravel so in a way he is Dominating her Supremacy.

( Am i the only one that thinks there is a little bit of a Domination Submission dynamic between the two ? )
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Old 2017-06-27, 07:20   Link #49
DragonOsman
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Ise already discarded the principle of domination. It's in the chant for Cardinal Crimson Queen.

And future possessors of the Boosted Gear would still get their own equivalent of the Cardinal Crimson Queen. It's the "True Queen" from the Triaina forms for Ise because for him it's the Sekiryutei's original power brought out using the characteristics and traits of Pawn. Future possessors would also get the Sekiryuutei's original power released but without the negative emotions or the danger of going berserk, but the difference with the Cardinal Crimson Queen would be that theirs wouldn't have the Pawn's trait of the Queen Promotion like Ise's does. Hence, their own respective equivalents of the Cardinal Crimson Queen. The Cardinal Crimson Full Drive itself would stay, it's just that the future possessors would get their own version of it unless they're also Pawns like him (but even then, for Ise, Ajuka had to make adjustments that made the Sekiryuutei's power come out with the traits of the Pawn Piece, which wouldn't always be the same for the successors, even if it is for some (if Ajuka or someone else who knows enough about Evil Pieces (after Ajuka dies, when it comes to that kind of time) decides to do it for some of the future possessors).

So yeah, what I'm trying to say is that the Cardinal Crimson Full Drive itself isn't going anywhere. It's the new alternative to the Juggernaut Drive for the Sekiryuutei, after all. It's just that future possessors might get a different take on it that's similar to Ise's but still different.
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Old 2017-06-27, 07:49   Link #50
katokateki
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Future BG users? Ise isn't gonna anytime soon. Not at least for another few thousands of years. So, pointless.
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Old 2017-06-27, 09:06   Link #51
Lucidrago
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@Osman That was B214 that posted the quote, not me. I forgot about that part. But the same thing that causes the possessors of BG and DD to go berserk in JD wouldn't necessarily be the same as what causes those that use BtB to go berserk. Maybe you just need something way stronger to keep yourself from going berserk in those forms.

@Sparda Issei and Vali aren't going anywhere for a long time since they are devils. So why are we talking about future possessors here. And if they died, it would only be a fragment of their consciousness that stays behind. CCQ and EJOD are unique to Issei and Vali alone. Those are unique forms they achieved due to their traits. Issei used the traits of his evil pieces and combined that with Ddraig's power. Vali used his immense talent(demonic powers) to achieve EJOD. Those can't be replicated by any possessor. They would make light of what Issei and Vali achieved with their hard work finding alternatives to JD.
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Old 2017-06-27, 09:32   Link #52
DragonOsman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
@Osman That was B214 that posted the quote, not me. I forgot about that part. But the same thing that causes the possessors of BG and DD to go berserk in JD wouldn't necessarily be the same as what causes those that use BtB to go berserk. Maybe you just need something way stronger to keep yourself from going berserk in those forms.
Ah, yeah, my bad for not realizing that that wasn't you. I thought you edited your post when I wasn't looking. I guess it was just B214 messing up the quotation placement in his post. But yeah, anyway, you're probably right about the things that make Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing possessors who use the Juggernaut Drive go berserk being different from what makes those who use Breakdown the Beast go berserk. It may not necessarily be negative emotions in the case of Breakdown the Beast. But yeah, it's true that Breakdown the Beast is just easier to not go berserk in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidrago View Post
@Sparda Issei and Vali aren't going anywhere for a long time since they are devils. So why are we talking about future possessors here. And if they died, it would only be a fragment of their consciousness that stays behind. CCQ and EJOD are unique to Issei and Vali alone. Those are unique forms they achieved due to their traits. Issei used the traits of his evil pieces and combined that with Ddraig's power. Vali used his immense talent(demonic powers) to achieve EJOD. Those can't be replicated by any possessor. They would make light of what Issei and Vali achieved with their hard work finding alternatives to JD.
It's true that the Cardinal Crimson Queen and Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive are unique to Ise and Vali, respectively, due to how they got them, but it's still not right to say that future possessors wouldn't have their own equivalents of those forms, no? I mean, the fact still remains that the normal Juggernaut Drive was discarded in favor of these alternatives, which also means that if future possessors don't somehow also have their own equivalents or takes on these alternatives to the Juggernaut Drive, then those future possessors would have no way to release the true, original power of the Two Heavenly Dragons, and that's something we just can't have. It wouldn't make any sense, either.

Vali's Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive is just the Juggernaut Drive without the danger of going berserk, since the negative emotions are still there - all Vali did was subdue the curse and turn it into a power he can more easily control. Future possessors of the Divine Dividing would also have access to that because there's no need for something special like the traits of Evil Pieces. Ise, on the other hand, did use the traits of the Evil Pieces, so the future possessors of the Boosted Gear would have a Cardinal Crimson Full Drive that doesn't have the traits of the Evil Pieces like Ise's version does. It probably still be Cardinal Crimson Full Drive, though - unless not actually crimson but red in their case since Ise's turned crimson because of his feelings for Rias (he remembered her crimson hair and how much he admires them, and also her, and when he woke up, a crimson light coming from her breasts were covering his armor; that's what changed the armor and turned its color crimson).

It's true that Ise and Vali will be alive for a very long time, but they'll still die when their respective lifespans end, however long that'll take, and then the Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing will be passed on to their next hosts.
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Old 2017-06-27, 09:43   Link #53
B214
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10,000 years till the next possessors. Well the next possessors could get something new too. Like Ise and Vali's power having an influence on the BG and DD even after dying.
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Old 2017-06-27, 10:25   Link #54
Bennia Lover
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Issei's life span is currently uncertain because of his new body.
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Old 2017-06-27, 11:19   Link #55
DragonOsman
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Well, yeah; he could be as immortal as Ophis for all we know. But that'd be bad because in that case his loved ones would die before him which would be painful for him. I hope he'll die at some point, still.

@B214: The next possessors could very well get their own equivalents of what Ise and Vai made. They're the first ones to bring it to the Heavenly Dragon Sacred Gears, and it'd make sense if their successors inherited it from them like how Ise and Vali inherited the Juggernaut Drive (though in this case the future possessors would inherit something better than the Juggernaut Drive).
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Old 2017-06-27, 11:21   Link #56
Bennia Lover
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Well that would be semi-immortality [can't die of old age] but he still would be killed by a car accident.
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Old 2017-06-27, 11:23   Link #57
DragonOsman
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I don't think Ophis can even be killed. Infinite life-force. Though I guess this would only apply to Ophis in her prime.
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Old 2017-06-27, 11:24   Link #58
Bennia Lover
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You mean she could self resurrect or something?
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Old 2017-06-27, 11:24   Link #59
Seafoam
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Pretty sure Azazel mentioned something in volume 11 about her not being truly infinite.
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Old 2017-06-27, 11:27   Link #60
DragonOsman
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Her power probably has an infinite amount to it, as well as her having an infinite life-force. Plus, she and Great Red are said to be as strong as or stronger than Trihexa. And it's only "current" Ophis, whose power was cut in half, who is not infinite but actually finite.

Recall from the Ise vs. Rizevim fight in Volume 20 that when Rizevim asked why he couldn't cancel the power of Ise's attacks in DxD G mode, Ddraig replied that the power of the Sekiryuutei's ability is infinite, and that you can't cancel infinity. I took it to mean that, at that time, the power of the Sekiryuutei's abilities were infinite. Like, for example, Ise at that time could Boost his power infinitely.
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