possible new law who can affect animes/mangas/ln

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by larethian

I guess relentless is referring to the eroge that are officially released in the US having all the girls labeled as above 18.

Personally, I don't have a problem with fan-service lolis disappearing from anime and manga altogether, but yeah, the draft seems way too vague to be acceptable and overly extreme. Now, even Shokugeki Souma (a new culinary manga in Shounen Jump that has fanservice scenes from the reactions from the food) has to make changes if it ever gets passed.

That is another thing I am wondering about. The 18 over clause U.S eroge have, just how useful would it be?

I just wish the U.S gov would clarify its stance on anime and be done with it (and give time for vendors and people to remove these offending material), the whole "randomly" arrest one person on ambiguous grounds is just silly.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by larethian

I guess relentless is referring to the eroge that are officially released in the US having all the girls labeled as above 18.

I don't generally buy eroge released in the US, but was speaking of the Japanese originals. I'm pretty sure almost every eroge I've purchased has begun with or contained the disclaimer: "All characters in this work are fictional and over 18 years of age" or similar. And I can't think of many cases where any official comments either in the game or on official sites would contradict that statement (usually the age just isn't commented). If they're set in a school, they may be "first years", "second years", and so on, but they never call it a high school so there's no basis to know how old a first year is. That doesn't mean it never happens counter-wise... but I don't know of any examples off-hand.

Edit: There was rather famous example of an eroge localization where, as a plot point, one of the characters waited until they were 18 to consummate their relationship with the protagonist, but there was a fanservice scene prior to that point where they were shown topless, and they famously censored that previous scene (before the character was 18 in the story). In terms of the localization market, that's the only example I can think of off-hand.

[larethian]

Oh, I've never noticed it in my August games. Perhaps, I need to read the disclaimers more carefully.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I don't generally buy eroge released in the US, but was speaking of the Japanese originals. I'm pretty sure almost every eroge I've purchased has begun with or contained the disclaimer: "All characters in this work are fictional and over 18 years of age" or similar. And I can't think of many cases where any official comments either in the game or on official sites would contradict that statement (usually the age just isn't commented). If they're set in a school, they may be "first years", "second years", and so on, but they never call it a high school so there's no basis to know how old a first year is. That doesn't mean it never happens counter-wise... but I don't know of any examples off-hand.

Edit: There was rather famous example of an eroge localization where, as a plot point, one of the characters waited until they were 18 to consummate their relationship with the protagonist, but there was a fanservice scene prior to that point where they were shown topless, and they famously censored that previous scene (before the character was 18 in the story). In terms of the localization market, that's the only example I can think of off-hand.

There is another one, Season of Sakura (You date clone look alike girls of Magic Knight Ray Earth, Eva and couple other anime), they translated all the girl to 18+ (which they were not), then by mistake, forgot to fix the fact the MC boy is only 16...

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

and i'm really a lolicon hater because this is just a "cool/soft" way to call a pedophile who what no matter of what you say to me is wrong, childrens are childrens and their have the right to be childrens(up to 14 years), and not be used as sexual tools.

Lolis aren't real. They're not actual children. They're not even actual humans. They're fictional characters. I like lolis; I have no interest at all in actual children--not even innocent interest (in fact, I hate kids, they're all little assholes).

This is a slippery slope you've perched yourself upon. You can't legislate morality--it just doesn't work.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

man 17 to 18 is indeed hard for girls
but 16 to 18 is not that hard, specially if "all the girls" suddenly start too look the same(even the ones supposed to be more old or more young), the law already have being very strick and saying who their can do a good investigations about this

i'm not saying who i'm totally agree with the law but for me their need do something, and again for me the most important will be riddle off the 14 or less girls look from the ecchi/fanservice scene, 15, 16+ then for me is fine since their are starting on their "teenager".
if you want a more accurate answer just get some seinen mangas(with teenager/adult look) some shounen mangas like op, like Fairy tail or like toriko and you will see how girls and guys need to look to have 18 years.

I very much dislike the idea of going after characters that "look" too young. I've met a lot of girls who "look" just as young as anime/manga characters do. I've met some really cute 19-20 year olds who say they're commonly mistaken for 14 (I didn't make that mistake). Hell, back when my girlfriend was 19 I had a friend who kept reminding me that age of consent in Canada is 16 for nearly a year. Turns out she wasn't sure she was legal - and my girlfriend is not that young looking.

[Master_Yoma]

Well the industry would take a hit and grow much smaller then it is now but it would stay alive but it would suck that there will be no more lolis

[Reek of Blood]

Japanese government really hate otaku, don't they? And it seems to me they've been constantly creating laws to curbstomp otaku industry.

They'd rather making laws to protect their own little children instead of making fuss of fictional characters, damn it!

[aohige]

Shouldn't the post dates for this be like two years ago?

Ground hogs day anyone?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by aohige

Shouldn't the post dates for this be like two years ago?

Ground hogs day anyone?

It's referring to the new amendment being proposed in the Diet, and not the Tokyo Metropolitan Ordinance. (The original poster did have some confusion about what the issues were, though.)

[EroKing]

Wonder what it would mean for something like the High School DxD light novel cuz nudity in it is

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

Wonder what it would mean for something like the High School DxD light novel cuz nudity in it is

Nudity is allowed, and most females have big boobs there. And the eroge is not the main focus, so...

Originally Posted by ellessarr

and this only will affect true strong ecchi mangas/animes and good amount of fanservice, pool and beachs still being possible, and swinsuits this only will be more about "bath" scenes(nude), like i said the onlys manga/animes who will really be hurt are the onlys who are heavy created around the ecchi like to love ru or sora no otoshimono.

I don't know about To Love Ru (it got the government approval), but Sora no Otoshimono is mostly action packed and the amounts of fanservice are used for comedic purposes.

Swimsuits? That's ridiculous, there should and will be no problem in depicting characters at the pool or the beach, because we also do this in real life. Bath scenes are also fine as long as they don't go overboard.

And distinguishing between characters of 17 - 18 years is indeed difficult. Even with 16 years it would be. But would they really bother? I don't think so, because you can always draw a female character of 15-16-17 years with a good pair of melons.

And in the end the result is still the same. If this becomes law it will be impossible to enforce and will be effective only marginally. And of course, eroge doujinshis featuring minors is the main target. Works that are not mainly focused around eroge won't even be investigated.

The biggest impact this might have is the already known Chilling Effect. The major publishers (Shueisha, Shogakukan, Kodansha...) on the other hand have already issued an statement saying they won't give a shit and carry on.

Again, it's futile try to legislate over fictional material when you can draw a 14 year old that looks like an adult and vice versa. Plus publishers an authors are extremly proficient in finding loopholes in bills like this. Let's just say that if graphically sexual depictions of underage minors are not allowed, comedic and abstract depictions will replace them.

And I detest scenes of underages under 13 years that are not for comedic purposes but are intended to stimulate the reader.

And one more thing. If they wanted to pass this they should have done it 10 years ago. Now it's too late.

[EroKing]

Nudity in High School DxD will be an issue with Koneko and also since...

3) Any pose of a child wholly or partially naked, which arouses or stimulates the viewer’s sexual desire.

What about current airings like Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge which can stimulate a person's sexual desire without any kind of nudity?
Go home Japan, you drunk.

[Homura7]

Nope, it won't be an issue because you can't judge an entire work for just a few scenes, it has to be primarly focused on that. Plus the third point is why this shit is completely unenforceable.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

Go home Japan, you drunk.

Blame Japan for continuing in labeling small for age girls as teens and adults..

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by K. Shiruto

Swimsuits? That's ridiculous, there should and will be no problem in depicting characters at the pool or the beach, because we also do this in real life. Bath scenes are also fine as long as they don't go overboard.

m/d/y
04/01/2023
new laws:
1. Looking at girls in swimsuits at the beach is considered a crime punished by death sentence. This includes self-observation.
2. Merely thinking about a sexual contact with a person that looks like under 18 years (by international 18-years-norm), leads to death sentence even if the observed person is actually over 18 years old. The same applies to any person that had the aforementioned thoughts about a person being under 18 years, even if the observed person looks older than the international 18-years-norm.

Then the Dystopia would be complete!


@GenjiChan:
The Japanease are by average smaller than Europeans/Americans/etc.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I'm pretty sure almost every eroge I've purchased has begun with or contained the disclaimer: "All characters in this work are fictional and over 18 years of age" or similar. And I can't think of many cases where any official comments either in the game or on official sites would contradict that statement (usually the age just isn't commented).

I've only played some of two or three eroge games in my life, but in one of them, Crescendo, that was officially populated by 18+ characters, the youngest girl is a first-year student who announces that she is fifteen. The setting was clearly a high school, of course.

[Homura7]

The only work I can think might fall under the supposed law is Kodomo no Jikan.

And I would love the police try to accuse someone of having child porn possessions. If I was one of those I would be like "come at me bro!" or "it's futile!"

The more I read this in deep, the more unenforceable is.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I've only played some of two or three eroge games in my life, but in one of them, Crescendo, that was officially populated by 18+ characters, the youngest girl is a first-year student who announces that she is fifteen. The setting was clearly a high school, of course.

That... sounds like a pretty major mistake by whoever was writing and/or reviewing the script. Unless, I suppose, this 15-year-old heroine is not one of main characters, but I don't think that's the insinuation you're making.

Originally Posted by K. Shiruto

Nope, it won't be an issue because you can't judge an entire work for just a few scenes, it has to be primarly focused on that. Plus the third point is why this shit is completely unenforceable.

There isn't any comment anywhere in the amendment that says anything about the work having to be "primarily focused" on anything. There is no distinction at all between real and fictional depictions, and they're certainly not going to allow "real" depictions as long as the context is not "primarily focused on that".

If the points you are saying were anywhere reflected in the proposed amendment, I think the conversation would be entirely different. Once a law is put in place, there's no guarantee that the way they choose to enforce it at the moment is the way they're going to enforce it going forward, and when they change how to enforce it, it no longer has to go through any political process whatsoever because the law is so broad that they can ban whatever they choose without prior notice.

If the whole thing is "pfff... the police are too incompetent to be corrupt and put people in jail for arbitrary reasons"... I'm not sure I'd hang my hat on that.

[Homura7]

I'm merely writing the reasons why by no means this can be enforced.

Dan Kanemitsu summed it up perfectly in a well written document. The only results this shit will have if passed will be marginal. Aside of this, it will join an extensive list of failures.