Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Destined_Fate]

I can see why Haruto proposed. He feels guilty over what happens and maybe understands that Saki is right. He cannot be with a mortal anymore.

[galdr]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I can see why Haruto proposed. He feels guilty over what happens and maybe understands that Saki is right. He cannot be with a mortal anymore.

That is correct but I think the first reason is because he sympathises with Saki loneliness.
Remember his word to Saki in theatre, "You're not alone anymore".
Just like he sympathises with L-Elf's desire to save Liselotte and decide to contract with him.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I can see why Haruto proposed. He feels guilty over what happens and maybe understands that Saki is right. He cannot be with a mortal anymore.

Him asking for hand in marriage, however, is suspect. If he truly wanted a relationship with Saki, he would have asked her to be his girlfriend. Marriage is his way of speeding things up and try and push Shouko out of his head, which means it would make things worse for the both of them.

[Destined_Fate]

Well he wanted to wait and he did say that Saki isn't alone anymore. He most likely feels that he doesn't deserve true love over what happened and that as a monster he should be with a monster. Whatever the case he didn't think it out all that well and is heavy on guilt.

[bastek66]

Originally Posted by galdr

My guess is Haruto end up losing both Shoko and Saki, continue living to protect L-Elf's legacy or he and Saki will end up killing each other.

Nah, it's more likely to Haruto to die since we already know that Saki is Suzaku of series (survivor).

[Destined_Fate]

The cow images of the mecha seem to imply that Shoko may have lived after all and the empire adapted to her strange... Tastes even after she may be long dead due to old age or not.

[BladeEntity]

Having watched the episode again, I think that L-Elf predicted Cain getting in at the very end when Cain speaks about L-Elf learning from him, I notice he speaks about luring his enemies in. From L-Elf's point of view, the best way to lure and kill Cain who always stays on his ship would be to allow him to board the module. Secondly one of the many strategies employed in anime a lot is fool your allies first to fool your enemy. Unfortunately with this type of plan, I see L-Elf sacrificing a majority of the un-named cast to achieve his goal.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

Having watched the episode again, I think that L-Elf predicted Cain getting in at the very end when Cain speaks about L-Elf learning from him, I notice he speaks about luring his enemies in. From L-Elf's point of view, the best way to lure and kill Cain who always stays on his ship would be to allow him to board the module. Secondly one of the many strategies employed in anime a lot is fool your allies first to fool your enemy. Unfortunately with this type of plan, I see L-Elf sacrificing a majority of the un-named cast to achieve his goal.

These unnamed students should be proud that their sacrifice actually contribute something for their nation when they are so goddamn worthless and useless. Call me heartless but as long as the main cast survived, they can use as many "cannon-fodder" as they want for the greater good. So L-Elf, just and go use them as much as you want and make sure Haruto(And other relevant people) survived.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by bastek66

This writing... probably worst romance in mecha in years. I mean, why he suddenly proposed?
He just meet her few weeks ago and befriended (and raped of course). But he was in love with his childhood friend and suddenly shifted to her. This is totally unbelievable.
Why he said "Marry me" and not "I love you" before that?
Looks like he doesn't love her and doing that out of pity of his actions + knowing her past.
They relationship is doomed. You may start crying SakixHaruto shippers.
(Just don't call me shipper, because I hate this kiddie play).

Actually, I think they've been wandering in space for a while. He's been acquainted to Shoko for a while. He's known he closely for months, drifting in space.

It just sounds to me like the writer was dumped by his high school girlfriend and then found another girl who he married and had a complicated adult relationship with.

Maybe he was bored of writing the usual anime romance, so he decided to make it more wordly and messed up.

Shoko and Haruto grow apart. War changes them. Haruto gets involved with girl with issues that he meets on the job.


The guy who writes this is 45. If he divorced? Maybe he's in a negative mood.

[Key Board]

I think it's unfair to say that the writer planned things this way because he was in a foul mood

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I think it's unfair to say that the writer planned things this way because he was in a foul mood

Maybe he's a bit cynical. He's 45, got bored.

[playmaker2k]

He's just not catering to the usual status quo that everyone expects from a mecha series.

If you look at his past work, none of the genki characters are ever genki for too long. Reality hits them hard and then they grow up and deal with it which is probably what's going on right now. (Or they die tragically)

What this does is lower down Shoko from her "goddess" aka mary sue status into a more flawed character. She was too perfect. Everything she does was flawless...even cooking slop is delicious.

I didn't like her in the beginning, but I think she's gonna be one of my favorite characters in the end.
Shoko is gonna be a cold, hard-nosed, and calculating figure in the near future.

She's gonna be relying solely on L-Elf for support and guidance which might complicate things later on in the story.

[Rennir]

Originally Posted by bastek66

This is awful writing for romance mecha.

To be fair, mecha animes aren't generally known for their well written romances

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

Having watched the episode again, I think that L-Elf predicted Cain getting in at the very end when Cain speaks about L-Elf learning from him, I notice he speaks about luring his enemies in. From L-Elf's point of view, the best way to lure and kill Cain who always stays on his ship would be to allow him to board the module. Secondly one of the many strategies employed in anime a lot is fool your allies first to fool your enemy. Unfortunately with this type of plan, I see L-Elf sacrificing a majority of the un-named cast to achieve his goal.

That would only push Shoko into a more **** it personality which may be what L-Elf may want her to become anyway as Shoko would blame herself for every death that happens.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Well he wanted to wait and he did say that Saki isn't alone anymore. He most likely feels that he doesn't deserve true love over what happened and that as a monster he should be with a monster. Whatever the case he didn't think it out all that well and is heavy on guilt.

I think he was going to wait all of one battle to propose (which I guess could be counted as courting to some... ) but I pretty much agree that he's doing this really all out of guilt and responsibility.

[DuelGundam2099]

To be fair, mecha animes aren't generally known for their well written romances

And a huge chunk of the genre has little to no romance at all, let alone of the developed variety.

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I am surprised at so many people not just disagreeing with Haruto's actions, but outright doesn't understand it.

Just as there is many people believe there should not be sex before marriage, there are those who believe the reverse version, that if there was sex then there should be marriage.

You can agree or disagree, but the thinking is not radical or new. The term "take responsibility" isn't invented for hentai, after all.

I'll just say that over the years I've noticed that dedicated shipping often makes for some rather interesting perspectives on events in more than a few shows. There always seems to be a huge disconnect between perspectives and opinions of posters with a specific shipping pair in mind and those that have no particular preference or don't even care about couples hooking up in the first.

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

And a huge chunk of the genre has little to no romance at all, let alone of the developed variety.

Yet a lot of mecha anime seems to attract really big shipping and romance crowds that expect excellence out of the encounters between characters of the opposite sex. Go figure. I think it's the Kawamori effect from his recent shows like Macross Frontier and Aquarion EVOL, which were both pretty popular.

Those are the exception rather than the rule I've found where an astonishing and IMO questionable level of focus is put on love triangles to the point where sometimes you forget you're even in a space opera sci-fi mecha show. The norm for mecha/military anime is more to flirt with the idea of romance and sexual tension and see what happens based on the events that are largely outside the casts control since usually they are in mortal danger and have to act based on that fact more than their feelings for others. It can sometimes lead to interesting and unexpected places but seriously developed normal and healthy romances are less likely to spring up than ones of the shotgun variety where characters make due with what they have in unfavorable situations where survival is not a guarantee.

Valvrave just complicates things further with the whole Magius thing. One thing I've considered is that if Shoko were to come to the conclusion that the only way to fix things between her and Haruto is to become like him she'll do it. If not as a last ditch sacrifice to save the colony I could totally see her doing it for that reason alone.

[Moeterum]

God I hate NTR...

[Winterson]

Originally Posted by Moeterum

God I hate NTR...

I second the motion

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Moeterum

God I hate NTR...

Please go and check the definition for NTR...CAREFULLY