Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.
The entire Excelion Buster sequence falls flat because of this (not to mention there was less tension because they neglected to mention the risk Raging Heart was taking to help Nanoha).
For that matter, Nanoha and Raging Heart's relation seems to be completely neglected now?
I dunno, they put a lot of frames into the animation so technical work is good (choreography isn't as nice though, too much reliance on "money shots" and explosions). Maybe it's because I've simply cooled down on Nanoha nowadays; this movie just didn't move me.
Really? I just watched the movie and I can't recall any theme already. The first time I heard the Starlight Breaker leitmotif, I ended up humming it for the entire next day.
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi.
"The sooner Fate is gone from the franchise, the better." I believe it was.
I don't even think he was referring to her death.
Maybe these are two different posts we're talking about.
I did say something like that, but it was partially an argument ploy against Sansker. And no, it wasn't a death I was even thinking of.
As I stated, I think a large problem is that Fate is beginning to overshadow everyone. I don't think Tsuzuki will ever get rid of her (although Vivid and Force have pushed her to supporting cast), but I do honestly feel sometimes that for other people to get development and get sufficient spotlight time, Fate has to be retired to the background. I honestly think that, as long as she remains, he'll feel pressure to keep her front and center at the cost of someone else.
Not entirely, of course. As I noted, Vivid and Force have done a decent job keeping her as a secondary character. But I think Tsuzuki just might be more free to do that with the manga, as opposed to a major animated event. Vivid, though, lacks much of a plot, and Force isn't for everyone (despite me liking primarily because other characters finally get spotlights).
Lastly, I know you said you only step in when you feel the criticism is misplaced, but... can you tell me something? What criticisms do you have of Fate? Is there anything that you feel Fate is doing wrong, or has been done wrong with her? Something that you feel should be changed? Or something about her development that you don't care for? I'm honestly curious. Or do you think her portrayal (at least in this movie) was 100% perfect?
For the record, I don't see you as a "Fate fag." I have seen quite a few of those on other boards. Those people are outright hostile to anyone coming close to Nanoha, other than Fate. They'll complain at mere pictures that have Nanoha and Yuuno in them, even if there is no closeness implied. It's okay to like a character, but if you honestly feel that people are associating you as a "Fate fag" then you might want to take a step back. I know when I used to defend Akane in Ranma 1/2 (as a "Knight of the True Fiancee), I felt very emotional when Akane was called into question. Any attack on her felt like an attack on me, and so I had to respond.
And honestly? I would like to see Fate continue and develop, same as every other character. I just fear her presence will start to overshadow other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.
Not just you. It was part of my criticisms. "Snow Rain" is my all time #1 favorite piece of music, but I just couldn't take this version. And none of the other tracks stood out to me. At least in the first movie, "Don't Be Long" stood out, and I warmed up to it. I think the only Nana song I've liked since StrikerS ended, was "Justice to Believe" from WA5. The rest of the Movie 2nd music was fairly generic sounding.
I did say something like that, but it was partially an argument ploy against Sansker. And no, it wasn't a death I was even thinking of.
As I stated, I think a large problem is that Fate is beginning to overshadow everyone. I don't think Tsuzuki will ever get rid of her (although Vivid and Force have pushed her to supporting cast), but I do honestly feel sometimes that for other people to get development and get sufficient spotlight time, Fate has to be retired to the background. I honestly think that, as long as she remains, he'll feel pressure to keep her front and center at the cost of someone else.
Brushing her out of existence seems far more volatile to me then giving her some screen time but not enough to consider what you think is "too much". I'm happy if I get at least some Fate, but remove her entirely? I wont be a happy camper. I'm not going to come here and whine about it, I may just pack up and leave altogether, though.
Quote:
Lastly, I know you said you only step in when you feel the criticism is misplaced, but... can you tell me something? What criticisms do you have of Fate? Is there anything that you feel Fate is doing wrong, or has been done wrong with her? Something that you feel should be changed? Or something about her development that you don't care for? I'm honestly curious. Or do you think her portrayal (at least in this movie) was 100% perfect?
I can accept some criticism of her, but she is perfect for me. Whether it be the series or her movie counterpart. I'm completely in love with her undying loyalty. So subjectively speaking, I find no fault in Fate. Objectively? Well, anyone with half a clue would realize sticking around for Precia is only going to cause more pain. Yet she continues her self destructive path up until the end. Even giving one last ditch effort to sway Precia, even if it meant turning on Nanoha and friends. This is an imperfection in her character, but a wonderful one. So in short, there is nothing in her character I would want changed. If we're talking scenes, sure. I'd prefer the big damn heroes moment over the NanoFate reunion. Probably a few others if I put more thought into it.
Quote:
For the record, I don't see you as a "Fate fag." I have seen quite a few of those on other boards. Those people are outright hostile to anyone coming close to Nanoha, other than Fate. They'll complain at mere pictures that have Nanoha and Yuuno in them, even if there is no closeness implied. It's okay to like a character, but if you honestly feel that people are associating you as a "Fate fag" then you might want to take a step back. I know when I used to defend Akane in Ranma 1/2 (as a "Knight of the True Fiancee), I felt very emotional when Akane was called into question. Any attack on her felt like an attack on me, and so I had to respond.
And honestly? I would like to see Fate continue and develop, same as every other character. I just fear her presence will start to overshadow other people.
That sounds more like a NanoFate fan to me. As long as Fate's satisfied, I follow suit.
I don't know what people here associate me to, but I casually call myself one on AIM all the time. I'm sure it has negative connotations to it, but I'm not sure if "fan" fully describes me.
The majority of rabid shippers tend to be a plague on any franchise. So anyone that can be paired falls victim. Fortunately, I really don't have much shipping tendencies, and the ones that I do have are not of this series.
Heh, though I would admit that Fate would be my primary reason for following this series. I did come in because Nanoha is voiced by Yukari Tamura, my favorite VA though. I can't ever imagine liking a character and then proceeding to view them negatively too.
As for character hating/annoyance, I don't have much that much of it in this series. A lot of indifference and disapproval, but I don't outright despise a character. If you want to see me do that for real, you may read the Bakemonogatari or Ore no Imouto forums. [But not if you are a fan]
Though it is to be sure that a fairly devoted Fate fan would see more Fate as a better thing. But I suppose it's possible to overdose on something when variety lacks. Like eating too much chocolate with nothing else. Someone above me may disagree. But really, can you blame people?
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Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.
The entire Excelion Buster sequence falls flat because of this (not to mention there was less tension because they neglected to mention the risk Raging Heart was taking to help Nanoha).
For that matter, Nanoha and Raging Heart's relation seems to be completely neglected now?
I dunno, they put a lot of frames into the animation so technical work is good (choreography isn't as nice though, too much reliance on "money shots" and explosions). Maybe it's because I've simply cooled down on Nanoha nowadays; this movie just didn't move me.
Nah, I thought most of the music was very bland as well.
Especially after Snow Rain, that was just...
Gawdawful.
There was no Brave Phoenix in this movie, which really made the fight against the core more awesome in the series.
And, Kaijo, what about Unchain World?
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My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.
I don't know what people here associate me to, but I casually call myself one on AIM all the time. I'm sure it has negative connotations to it, but I'm not sure if "fan" fully describes me.
People these days often forget that "fan" is short for "fanatic", so in a way, it suits you like a glove.
My own main problem with Fate is not so much that she has screentime, it's that what screentime she has in handled in a way to maximize fan-appeal rather than make for a good story. I already mentioned the save Nanoha scene in this movie, but really the most glaring issue comes from StrikerS, where she is pushed into the double-mama scene because this maximizes fan appeal.
Now, I've already said before many times that this should have been something Nanoha should have been facing alone, as it would drive her development. But that doesn't mean Fate should just stay off-screen. Because there were two other characters in StrikerS that needed development: Erio and Caro. The person central to their development? Fate.
If they had shied away from using Fate for maximum fan-appeal and instead focused her scenes on developing Erio and Caro (which would also give Fate more development too), StrikerS would have been a better anime because of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01
Nah, I thought most of the music was very bland as well.
Especially after Snow Rain, that was just...
Gawdawful.
There was no Brave Phoenix in this movie, which really made the fight against the core more awesome in the series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.
The entire Excelion Buster sequence falls flat because of this (not to mention there was less tension because they neglected to mention the risk Raging Heart was taking to help Nanoha).
Mreh, I don't care about vocal pieces that much, mostly because I grew up with games and movies but lacked any regular music genre that I really liked, so I grew to love soundtracks themselves. My music folder has maybe a dozen regular songs, but several hundred musical pieces from various movies, series and games.
I found the music to be great for most of the movie. It blends well with the scenes, forming a good union and enhancing the atmosphere of the scenes.
For those of you who liked the movie and can't see why Kaijo or myself have a problem with it, I'm going to give you a comparison of the movie vs canon.
To be fair, I can name only THREE things the movie does better than canon and three things that are minor but I do like.
Minor 1: How the book activated. Like Demi. said, the book activating in response to Hayate's life does make a lot of sense.
Minor 2: Reinforce showing up sooner. Was a very nice thing, but since she showed up in the Sound Stages before she was awakened...
Minor 3: Reinforce having her own device was nice, as I said before.
Major 1: The pretty visuals, about the only thing we ALL agree on that's superior to canon.
Major 2: Lindy staring down the Wolkenritter, though that was quickly negated by the fact she didn't get to DO anything.
Major 3: Fight against the Darkness of the Book of Darkness, the thing fought back, MAJORLY improved from canon.
_________________________________
Now, for the comparison between A's and the movie, and WHY the movie fails, we're going to look at the first fight scene of A's and the movie as well as the Reinforce fight sequence, with a couple more inbetween. I'll do a character by character breakdown here.
Spoiler for Nanoha:
Canon - Fights Vita after getting surprised attacked, has Raising Heart cracked, busted through an office building, gets rescued, starts to charge up Starlight Breaker Plus. "AH! There's a hand in my chest! My magic's being drained! Raising Heart, are you okay?"
"Yes, master."
"okay! Starlight Breaker!"
Barrier gets broken and the Wolkenritter are forced to retreat.
Movie - Fights with Vita after getting surprised attacked, gets busted into the ground and a water fountain, gets drained, does nothing else for this fight.
Spoiler for Fate:
Canon - Big damn heroes moment with Arf and Yuuno to save Nanoha. Busts out "We're her friends" when Vita asks who she is. With Arf's help, she binds Vita before being forced to fight Signum. Puts up a good fight against Signum, lands a blow on her. Gets blasted through two buildings and Bardiche is cut in half. Fixes Bardiche and gets back into the fight, worried about Nanoha, still fights Signum off while they try to get out of there. Worst damage she suffers is a banged up arm.
Movie - "AAAAAAAHHHH!!!" Bardiche gets cut in half, doesn't get fixed here with Recovery, Fate gets smashed into the ground, then drained.
Spoiler for Arf:
Canon - Takes a surprise attack from Zafira, but manages to fight him evenly despite not knowing what fighting style he was using. Every time we see them fight in canon, they go back and forth with each other.
Movie - Gets kicked by Zafira once, then drained. Later on, just shown to do one punch with Zafira before the fight ends.
Spoiler for Yuuno:
Canon: Big damn heroes moment with Fate and Arf, puts Nanoha in a healing barrier, fights off Vita while working to undo the barrier the Wolkenritter put up.
Movie: Put into the library, gets less than 3 minutes of screen time until the end (which makes me wonder WHY he was even IN this movie, it's like that one colonel guy from the Street Fighter movie with Raul Julia who did nothing but STILL made it into the video game)
Spoiler for Chrono:
Chrono didn't do anything for the first fight, so I'll skip ahead to when he DID do something in canon.
Canon: Chrono corners Shamal and has her dead to rights until the twins kick him away and he fights against Zafira and Vita before Nanoha, Fate and Arf show up.
Movie: Chrono is rushing towards the scene, but Shamal, instead of using a divine lightning bolt, uses a flash bang so they escape.
Okay, now, the rest of the movie is basically like canon, all character bonding and defining moments are pretty much ripped straight from canon with very little change, at all.
Let's skip ahead to Reinforce vs Nanoha and Fate.
Well, before that even.
Spoiler for Wolkenritter's death scene:
Canon: The Lieze twins, disguised as Nanoha and Fate, drain the Wolkenritter in front of Hayate and she has to watch as two girls she thought were her friends kill her family. Reinforce even says "you mages who took my master's family away from her, you will pay."
Movie: Snakes on a plane! *Ahem* Sorry, but the snakes eat the Wolkenritter in front of Hayate, Reinforce shouldn't focus on Nanoha and Fate, she has no reason to want their destruction, at all.
now, Reinforce in the movie vs canon.
Spoiler for Reinforce's awakening:
Canon: Diabolic Emission into Starlight Breaker, forcing Nanoha and Fate to quickly retreat because they can't handle that power, Yuuno and Arf as well.
Movie: Diabolic Emission, that's it.
Afterwords, the fight pretty much goes the same for both the movie and canon, just chains and binds instead of tentacles. (BOO!)
Now, let's skip to the end of the Reinforce fight in canon vs the movie.
Spoiler for End of the Reinforce fight:
Canon:
Nanoha fights Reinforce evenly despite being out-gunned, over-powered and out-matched. Raising Heart BEGS Nanoha to go Excellion mode, Nanoha's against it because she doesn't want Raising Heart to get damaged, Raising Heart tells her it's okay! So they go Excellion Mode. That scene of Nanoha breaking through Reinforce's barrier in canon showed her eyes, there was NO FEAR in them, AT ALL! Snow Rain starts up now. Hayate then manages to take control of Reinforce, stopping her while Arf and Yuuno hold back the automatic tentacles from doing anything more.
Nanoha then blasts Reinforce while Hayate takes over and Fate busts out of the Lotus Dream Eater. The Knights get revived with awesome music playing in the background and we have them repledging their oath of loyalty while their theme music plays and it makes you realize just how much Hayate means to them if you didn't realize it already.
Movie:
Fate busts out of the Lotus Dream Eater, cuts through the drill, saves Nanoha. Snow Rain plays, then they blast Reinforce and Hayate names Reinforce. Revival of the Wolkenritter, no awesome theme music, no oath of loyalty.
So, tell me, is this movie good? After looking at those comparisons, WHICH would you rather watch? The movie or canon?
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I wouldn't say hate, as far as I'm concerned. I ultimately gave it a 6, which is average per the poll. I would say I am more "disappointed" because the movies didn't even live up to the series. If you can't at least duplicate what you've done before, then we have a problem.
A third movie doesn't make me rage or hate, though. I don't know how it goes, so how could it? I do have fears, which I am sure people are aware of so I won't restate them. But just the idea of a 3rd movie doesn't really move me either way. Well, I suppose if the third movie is completely new adventure (like I feel the movies should have been) then it might ultimately be a good thing; Tsuzuki will be forced to actually consider the story, instead of just cherry pick things to show, forgetting what made the story complete in the first place.
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
On a random note, everytime they say "NachtWal" I can't help but see it written as "Narwhal." And thus I have this image if a Narwhal on Reinforce's wrist saying, "I'm the Jedi of the sea!"
Oh, I also completed my movie 2nd subtitles. Mostly just fixed the names to how we know them, and corrected a bit of the grammar and awkward sentences. If anyone is interested in subtitles (or wants to know how to easily fix their own), let me know.
On a random note, everytime they say "NachtWal" I can't help but see it written as "Narwhal." And thus I have this image if a Narwhal on Reinforce's wrist saying, "I'm the Jedi of the sea!"
It's most likely supposed to be NachtWall, which would be actual German.
It doesn't have the exact same meaning as wall in English, but it's similar.
You know this makes sense because it's a defense program.
You could translate NachtWall to NightBulwark or NightRampart, I guess.
Oh, I also completed my movie 2nd subtitles. Mostly just fixed the names to how we know them, and corrected a bit of the grammar and awkward sentences. If anyone is interested in subtitles (or wants to know how to easily fix their own), let me know.
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