Anime Saimoe Tournament 2013 (Japan)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

You just made me want Sayaka to win this year's Saimoe, just so fans won't underestimate her Saimoe performance anymore. And maybe the year after, too, just to make sure.

I'm sure that Coldlight would join me in warmly welcoming you to the ranks of us hoping that Sayaka wins it all. We could even call ourselves the Three Sayaka Musketeers!

I'm sure that Mami would be nice enough to lend us three of her muskets so we'd be properly armed for the role.

I'd be happy with either Madoka girl winning (well, maybe with the exception of Mami, as I'm not big on repeat champions in moe competitions) or with either of the major Saki girls winning (maybe except Toki, for the same reason), so I'm almost guaranteed to be happy with the result of this year's J-SaiMoe.

However, I'd be particularly happy if Sayaka won it all.

The odds are clearly against her, but I can imagine a scenario where it's possible.

Even though I ribbed Ion a bit for going totally against the Madoka Magica girls in his predictions, I have to admit that Mami, Madoka, Homura, and Kyouko all have their work cut out for them. Mami vs. Toki is probably a toss-up. Madoka and Homura have to contend with the possibility of Ayase coming up the middle against both of them, as well as three strong Saki girls if either one gets past the 2nd round. And Kyouko has to survive the Chuuni gauntlet.

I doubt that all of these presumably close calls will go against PMMM, but it is possible. Sayaka probably has the easiest road to winning a block out of all the PMMM girls. Suppose she was the only one to do it? If she ends up being the only PMMM girl left, and basically becomes the flag-bearer for the entire faction, I could see that adding to her strength.

Ah, but then we have the 2nd-chance system here. So that should ensure at least two or three Madoka girls make it into the Final 16. This makes the scenario I outlined significantly less likely. Not totally impossible, but it would take a miracle...

[KanbeKotori]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

I hardly think they were that unpopular, what with all that hype around them saying they could fight on par with the big two before the start of this Saimoe. You don't get that with a series that's not as popular as either of those 2. And even if they really were less popular like you said, GuP's performance in the prelims was still extremely disappointing. Only 6 characters broke 100, of which only two broke 150. Highest was 174 by Yukari. That's right, not a single GuP girl got 200+ votes. Not one GuP girl topped her group. Closest was Saori who got 107 votes in group 2, losing to Haganai's Yozora by 3 votes. I could go on, but I have to move on to other points.

Maybe saying that a faction's performance in Saimoe not being completely related to its popularity was not so accurate. Maybe saying instead that "it's not as clear-cut as saying that 'the most popular series wins the Saimoe'" would be more accurate.

Suppose we take a series S. If S is new to Saimoe (or has not participated in Saimoe for a sufficiently long time), then there being a correlation between Saimoe performance and popularity of a series, we will consult a performance-popularity graph, which will be a straight line, with the Saimoe performance of a series being directly proportional to its popularity. Using this graph, we estimate its Saimoe performance coefficient, or p. If S is a returning series (i.e. participated in Saimoe before in recent years), then we will take p to be its performance in its last Saimoe. We then compare the value of p for this series, which I shall denote p(S), to the values of p for other series.

• If there is some series with p that is significantly greater than p(S), then this series will dominate and win this Saimoe, and S will be deemed as inferior to it. As a result, this inferiority will carry over to future Saimoe, resulting in a series whose performance is disproportionately worse than its popularity. Such a series will be handicapped against other series with similar popularity. (Example: Girls und Panzer in 2013)
• If there is no series with p that is significantly greater than p(S), then we consider two scenarios.
  1. If there is some series with p that is similar to p(S) and not significantly higher or lower than p(S), then S will be competing with this series on equal ground. Whether S wins this Saimoe or not, it did not dominate convincingly, so p(S) for next year will be around average for its popularity. (Examples: a lot)
  2. If there is no other series with p comparable to p(S) i.e. p(S) is significantly greater than all other values of p, then it will end up dominating this Saimoe and win. This translates to a series whose performance is disproportionately better than its popularity. Such a series will have a definitive edge over other series with similar popularity. (Example: Madoka in 2011, Saki in 2012)

Of course, there are other factors, such as the difference in popularity between S and other series (not going to spend time explaining unless you want me to; it'll take me a few hours just to complete this part of my argument), as well as the winner of a Saimoe having a lower p next year than it should have (which is the champions' disadvantage you guys were talking about earlier on). However Madoka and Saki didn't have this disadvantage because they dominated so much in their winning years that the values of p were significantly greater than it should have been, and it was more than enough to outweigh the winning disadvantage. Hence by dominating their winning Saimoe years, they actually had an advantage coming into this Saimoe.

True. GuP is undeniably popular(I didn't say it isn't), just not at the same popularity as Saki/MadoMagi. There haven't been a series so far more popular or even have the same popularity as GuP itself so people are hyped out that GuP COULD probably contest against those 2 series. I do agree on what you said on those stats stuffs but the thing is you're confused on how popular is GuP is with respect to Saki/MadoMagi. GuP is certainly not at their level of popularity. While MadoMagi and Saki have past experiences which will help them in WINNING the Saimoe, GuP will nonetheless survive there with respectable results(a first timer popular series is no doubt gonna get some good results even if they do not win). If you take a series as popular as Saki/MadoMagi and put them in as first timers, sure, they won't win but they will do decent enough to grab enough voters to compete in the next Saimoe.

In the end, you don't see unpopular series girls winning the Saimoe. Past few winners have all been popular series(which many are top few if ranked according to popularity) so the impact might not have been greater than what you've calculated as we have many factors affecting those stats. Not to say the stats aren't true but the deviation of it is rather huge I'd say.

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

The vast majority of people don't have this determination, so you can't really blame them. And regardless of whose fault it is, the result will be that Saki's domination of Saimoe will kill it. Hence I am against Saki winning this Saimoe.

If you'd like to continue blaming the people with weak wills, then by all means try to change their mindsets.

Well, there is no need to. It just depends on how many people actually like this competition. You have people from other Saimoe Tourney mounting upsets and shits like that cos they love the Saimoe Tourney they are participating in. I just feel that AST doesn't have the amount of love it deserves.

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

Everyone except Saki. If I raised the bar from 200 votes to 210 votes (i.e. top 5), would you still be saying the same thing?

At the end of the day, regarding the first tier girls i.e. girls who are candidates to win Saimoe, what matters is the absolute number of first tier girls from a certain series, and not the percentage of girls from a single series who are first tier. However, the 200 votes club is not the best way to gauge this, since the final phase of Saimoe is a series of knockout rounds, so we need to use a top 1, top 2, top 4, top 8 etc list.

If we have a 190 club that'll make the top 16 list (again, 17 girls since 16th is tied):

If the results from Prelims 1 carry over to the finals, what would happen is:

1. The final 16 will consist of 5-6 Saki girls, 5 MadoMagi girls, 2 Yuru Yuri girls, and a bunch of girls from different series (including Chuu2's Shinka).
2. The final 8 will consist of 4 Saki girls, 3 MadoMagi girls, and Shinka (Chuu2).
3. The final 4 will consist of 3 Saki girls and 1 MadoMagi girl (Homura).
4. The final will result in Saki's Ako being the winner.

How do you call that "Madoka bulldozing everyone away"? Seeing that in none of the rounds in this scenario Madoka has more girls than Saki.

I find you're downplaying MadoMagi girls strength a lot. What I'm bring across is not the percentages alone but also how consistent the performance of the girls. MadoMagi girls have very consistent supporters while Saki supporters aren't. In fact from the data, you can see that their performance is very volatile. In the end to win Saimoe, your fan base must be very consistent in producing the results, which so far only the MadoMagi girls can. Besides, like what you mentioned, Saki is facing extra disadvantage as many didn't like them winning the Saimoe.

I don't see how Shinka is getting into top 8. Perhaps if you have replaced her with Rikka it's understandable but other than that, you're either having too little faith in MadoMagi girls or you're just downplaying their strength, which is not a wise thing to do.

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

It's still nowhere near what anyone can call "the bulk".

Perhaps so but the percentages might not speak the same. I don't know how many people there are which supports this/that series so I can't draw the percentage up to confirm but it's definitely somewhere near the bulk.

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

And how do they fill it up? Randomly? Appearance of the girls they aren't going for?

The kanji for Saimoe (最萌) means "most moe". So if you took this meaning at face value, then you would literally be voting for the characters based on appearance alone, regardless of their personalities, screen time, character development, etc.

Probably according to that, from what I've seen so far in those threads plus image boards, it clearly that way(Otherwise you won't have people posting the nicest/prettiest/moe image of the girls on those image boards, hoping people vote for them). Humans are very vain in nature, if they don't know the girls and most of them DO want to use all their votes, they'll just hop on the image boards(if they are too lazy to google the girls pictures) and select whoever they feel is the nicest/prettiest/moe. This is what we called picture voting.

Precisely the point, Saimoe is meant to be voting for the most moe girl(be it based on personality or picture) so I don't see why people are condemning those that picture votes.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

Prepare for a lesson on statistics.

Spoiler for to conserve space:

You just made me want Sayaka to win this year's Saimoe, just so fans won't underestimate her Saimoe performance anymore. And maybe the year after, too, just to make sure.

...

Who am I kidding. Even if that really comes to pass, fans are still going to claim that the likes of Kud can easily crush her.

Still, even if she's the weakest of the 5 girls, it doesn't show easily. The support for each of the girls is incredibly balanced, and head-to-head can go either way. Homura who was the only one of the 5 that failed to make it to the final 8 in '11 got the most votes in this Saimoe's prelim out of the 5 girls.

I think it's safe for me to call them the 5 Queens of MadoMagi. Just like how 5 queens can cover an entire chessboard...



I hardly think they were that unpopular, what with all that hype around them saying they could fight on par with the big two before the start of this Saimoe. You don't get that with a series that's not as popular as either of those 2. And even if they really were less popular like you said, GuP's performance in the prelims was still extremely disappointing. Only 6 characters broke 100, of which only two broke 150. Highest was 174 by Yukari. That's right, not a single GuP girl got 200+ votes. Not one GuP girl topped her group. Closest was Saori who got 107 votes in group 2, losing to Haganai's Yozora by 3 votes. I could go on, but I have to move on to other points.

Maybe saying that a faction's performance in Saimoe not being completely related to its popularity was not so accurate. Maybe saying instead that "it's not as clear-cut as saying that 'the most popular series wins the Saimoe'" would be more accurate.

Suppose we take a series S. If S is new to Saimoe (or has not participated in Saimoe for a sufficiently long time), then there being a correlation between Saimoe performance and popularity of a series, we will consult a performance-popularity graph, which will be a straight line, with the Saimoe performance of a series being directly proportional to its popularity. Using this graph, we estimate its Saimoe performance coefficient, or p. If S is a returning series (i.e. participated in Saimoe before in recent years), then we will take p to be its performance in its last Saimoe. We then compare the value of p for this series, which I shall denote p(S), to the values of p for other series.

• If there is some series with p that is significantly greater than p(S), then this series will dominate and win this Saimoe, and S will be deemed as inferior to it. As a result, this inferiority will carry over to future Saimoe, resulting in a series whose performance is disproportionately worse than its popularity. Such a series will be handicapped against other series with similar popularity. (Example: Girls und Panzer in 2013)
• If there is no series with p that is significantly greater than p(S), then we consider two scenarios.
  1. If there is some series with p that is similar to p(S) and not significantly higher or lower than p(S), then S will be competing with this series on equal ground. Whether S wins this Saimoe or not, it did not dominate convincingly, so p(S) for next year will be around average for its popularity. (Examples: a lot)
  2. If there is no other series with p comparable to p(S) i.e. p(S) is significantly greater than all other values of p, then it will end up dominating this Saimoe and win. This translates to a series whose performance is disproportionately better than its popularity. Such a series will have a definitive edge over other series with similar popularity. (Example: Madoka in 2011, Saki in 2012)

Of course, there are other factors, such as the difference in popularity between S and other series (not going to spend time explaining unless you want me to; it'll take me a few hours just to complete this part of my argument), as well as the winner of a Saimoe having a lower p next year than it should have (which is the champions' disadvantage you guys were talking about earlier on). However Madoka and Saki didn't have this disadvantage because they dominated so much in their winning years that the values of p were significantly greater than it should have been, and it was more than enough to outweigh the winning disadvantage. Hence by dominating their winning Saimoe years, they actually had an advantage coming into this Saimoe.



The vast majority of people don't have this determination, so you can't really blame them. And regardless of whose fault it is, the result will be that Saki's domination of Saimoe will kill it. Hence I am against Saki winning this Saimoe.

If you'd like to continue blaming the people with weak wills, then by all means try to change their mindsets.



Everyone except Saki. If I raised the bar from 200 votes to 210 votes (i.e. top 5), would you still be saying the same thing?

At the end of the day, regarding the first tier girls i.e. girls who are candidates to win Saimoe, what matters is the absolute number of first tier girls from a certain series, and not the percentage of girls from a single series who are first tier. However, the 200 votes club is not the best way to gauge this, since the final phase of Saimoe is a series of knockout rounds, so we need to use a top 1, top 2, top 4, top 8 etc list.

If we have a 190 club that'll make the top 16 list (again, 17 girls since 16th is tied):

If the results from Prelims 1 carry over to the finals, what would happen is:

1. The final 16 will consist of 5-6 Saki girls, 5 MadoMagi girls, 2 Yuru Yuri girls, and a bunch of girls from different series (including Chuu2's Shinka).
2. The final 8 will consist of 4 Saki girls, 3 MadoMagi girls, and Shinka (Chuu2).
3. The final 4 will consist of 3 Saki girls and 1 MadoMagi girl (Homura).
4. The final will result in Saki's Ako being the winner.

How do you call that "Madoka bulldozing everyone away"? Seeing that in none of the rounds in this scenario Madoka has more girls than Saki.



It's still nowhere near what anyone can call "the bulk".



And how do they fill it up? Randomly? Appearance of the girls they aren't going for?

The kanji for Saimoe (最萌) means "most moe". So if you took this meaning at face value, then you would literally be voting for the characters based on appearance alone, regardless of their personalities, screen time, character development, etc.

Hmmm

1. What is our sample size in this matter? Is it enough to make chance of beta error small enough?
2. What value of alpha were you using?
3. As for testing your claims, can you provide us the specific Null Hypothesis for the tests?
4. Is it possible to design Lack of Fit test for your models for your claims? That would greatly boost confidence for your claims.

[Team Rocket Elite]

The Saimoe 2013 main tournament begins today. Iwai, Kuroyukihime and Sumire are probably reasonably safe picks for winning their matches although I guess no one is every really safe in Saimoe. The Saki cross-year winning streak is already in danger with Himeko going up against Emi. Both Himeko and Emi finished third in their preliminary and Emi had a slightly higher vote count. If this was last year's Saki fanbase, I'd say Himeko would just find a way to win. As this is the first match day, we've yet to see Saki in action in matches that matter. Based on their strong preliminary showings, I think the Saki fanbase will be hard to beat again this year. I'm calling for Himeko to win.

Votes:
Hanaki Yuka
Fate Testarossa
Aoki Reika
Eguchi Sera

Predictions:
Mushanokouji Iwai
Kuroyukihime
Tsuruta Himeko
Hirose Sumire

[Coldlight]

The bloodbath begins in a couple of hours, JST. Let's see who takes first blood, and if the Saki faction manages to preserve their streak from last year.

Picks:
Yuuko-san (Tasogare Otome x Amnesia)
Kuroyukihime (Accel World) - it was a painfully hard choice, but I'm not voting in this match anyway...
Emi (Hataraku Maou-sama!)
N/A (-) - for the other match

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm sure that Coldlight would join me in warmly welcoming you to the ranks of us hoping that Sayaka wins it all. We could even call ourselves the Three Sayaka Musketeers!

I'm sure that Mami would be nice enough to lend us three of her muskets so we'd be properly armed for the role.

I'd extend a hand for a firm handshake if it were possible! This would be... just like old times with spirits having flown back in 2011.

And as you know, the swashbuckling Three Musketeers are also famously armed with swords - and we sure have no shortage of those.

However, I'd be particularly happy if Sayaka won it all.

The odds are clearly against her, but I can imagine a scenario where it's possible.

After the group phase, I agree that the odds are stacked against her; but she does have a relatively easier path through her group than the other Puella Magi, as noted by you. If Sayaka somehow manages to avoid attracting too much unwanted attention (including a bit of a lucky draw going into the knockout final stretch), we might even get something a la Saimoe 2007, where the top contenders ended up destroying each other - allowing Higurashi's Rika Furude to take the crown (with a bit of help from foreigners, and this is where we come in).

Not totally impossible, but it would take a miracle...

Well, I see what you did there...

[RJ TAYLER]

Girs, get ready!

Girls, get steady!

Go girls go!

For one a c r o w n

For the others a frown

It all adds up to your renown!

So without any further ado Sakura Kinomoto kindly fire the starter's gun for your successor needs to be found.

[KanbeKotori]

The exciting round begins!

My votes for today

A01: Mushanokouji Iwai

A04: Kuroyukihime

A07: Tsuruta Himeko

A10: Hirose Sumire

I really hope Iwai and Himeko makes it in.

[Ichuki]

Picks- Iwai, Kuroyukihime, Reika
Prediction- Iwai, KYH, Emilia, Urabe
I wish AST put the girls in to blocks according to their strength. Like group A is the strongest, H is the weakest.

For the double elimination thing does 2nd placers from round 1 and 2 get an another attempt if they lose to group winners?

[Subayai]

The tournament begins! I hope we will have exciting matches and plenty of surprises.

Mayaka has it tough already. Not much of a chance of winning.
On the upside, it seems like the battle between Fate and Kuroyukihime is very exciting. Should I make my vote useful and help Feito-chan instead?
I think I'll wait to see how the match goes.

Iwai and Urabe have a big advantage. Not much to say here.

Emi is also winning but I wouldn't discard the typical "Saki final rush" that gives the victory to Himeko.

For the double elimination thing does 2nd placers from round 1 and 2 get an another attempt if they lose to group winners?

Yes, that's correct.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Subayai

Should I make my vote useful and help Feito-chan instead?

I'll give you a cookie. I don't expect her to go very far this year, but I'd love if she at least passes the first round.

[KanbeKotori]

Originally Posted by Demi.

I'll give you a cookie. I don't expect her to go very far this year, but I'd love if she at least passes the first round.

Erm...that's not my quote btw, it's Subayai's quote.

[Demi.]

Well, not sure how that happened since I definitely clicked the tab to quote Subayai...But *fixed*

[Ichuki]

Originally Posted by Subayai

Yes, that's correct.

If that's so, thank goodness Yayoi/Cure Peace and Kud has decent chance of getting it.

[ion475]

I don't think I can vote with my new ISP...

For my pick / prediction:
A01: Shizuku (Predict: Iwai)
A04: Kuroyukihime (Predict: KYH)
A07: Emi (Predict: Emi)
A10: Mikoto (Predict: Sumire)

A07 is the battle of the day. Emi is from a fairly popular series, although she's not their best girl. Himeko is a 3rd tier Saki girl, but we all know Saki can beat anyone...

[Aya Reiko]

Mai-Predictions:

Iwai, Himeko, Fate, Sumire

[RJ TAYLER]

Once again I'm on the sidelines as I can't vote (even with my new machine/ISP); ah well back to the bleachers cheering the girls on with gusto.

[iamadooddood]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm sure that Coldlight would join me in warmly welcoming you to the ranks of us hoping that Sayaka wins it all. We could even call ourselves the Three Sayaka Musketeers!

I'm sure that Mami would be nice enough to lend us three of her muskets so we'd be properly armed for the role.

Lol? Well I'm ABS so I'd rather MadoMagi win than Saki win. If MadoMagi had to win I was hoping for Madoka to win until you mentioned Sayaka's plight. And I don't even like girls with such short hair... oh well.

If Sayaka grew her hair out I'll switch camps for sure.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

True. GuP is undeniably popular(I didn't say it isn't), just not at the same popularity as Saki/MadoMagi. There haven't been a series so far more popular or even have the same popularity as GuP itself so people are hyped out that GuP COULD probably contest against those 2 series. I do agree on what you said on those stats stuffs but the thing is you're confused on how popular is GuP is with respect to Saki/MadoMagi. GuP is certainly not at their level of popularity. While MadoMagi and Saki have past experiences which will help them in WINNING the Saimoe, GuP will nonetheless survive there with respectable results(a first timer popular series is no doubt gonna get some good results even if they do not win). If you take a series as popular as Saki/MadoMagi and put them in as first timers, sure, they won't win but they will do decent enough to grab enough voters to compete in the next Saimoe.

Forget the big 2. The way things are going, GuP isn't even going to beat Yuru Yuri. Which is nowhere near Saki and MadoMagi. Unless some hidden GuP faction starts coming out in the main round... what are the odds of that.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

In the end, you don't see unpopular series girls winning the Saimoe. Past few winners have all been popular series(which many are top few if ranked according to popularity) so the impact might not have been greater than what you've calculated as we have many factors affecting those stats. Not to say the stats aren't true but the deviation of it is rather huge I'd say.

Unfortunately, most of the factors I see are working against GuP. In fact the only thing GuP has going for it is popularity, but not even that helped MadoMagi in ISML, so I don't see it helping GuP here.

Besides, it's far rarer for a less popular series to upset more popular ones doing average than for more popular ones to flop against less popular series doing average. It'd take maybe 50-100 ASTs for one not-so-popular series to win one.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

Well, there is no need to. It just depends on how many people actually like this competition. You have people from other Saimoe Tourney mounting upsets and shits like that cos they love the Saimoe Tourney they are participating in. I just feel that AST doesn't have the amount of love it deserves.

They're different. Unlike ISML, even the organisers here are far more lax than before. If the organisers aren't even doing a proper job, how do you expect the fans to take interest? If AST doesn't get the love it deserves, yes, it will die out.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

I find you're downplaying MadoMagi girls strength a lot. What I'm bring across is not the percentages alone but also how consistent the performance of the girls. MadoMagi girls have very consistent supporters while Saki supporters aren't. In fact from the data, you can see that their performance is very volatile. In the end to win Saimoe, your fan base must be very consistent in producing the results, which so far only the MadoMagi girls can. Besides, like what you mentioned, Saki is facing extra disadvantage as many didn't like them winning the Saimoe.

I don't see how Shinka is getting into top 8. Perhaps if you have replaced her with Rikka it's understandable but other than that, you're either having too little faith in MadoMagi girls or you're just downplaying their strength, which is not a wise thing to do.

I was just basing off prelim results. Also, Saki is dangerous precisely because it's volatile. Any of the Saki girls is a potential Saimoe winner. This was part of the reason for their domination: even the weakest Saki girl can become strong enough and perform well at times, especially during the necessary times. (Another is sheer quantity, which only compounds the earlier problem.) Any Saki girl can take down a Puella Magi only to fall to a 2nd tier girl right after. If you sum up the volatile support of the girls, it still adds to around an equal number. So you get the fanbase in the shape of a blob which moves around and fills up space irregularly, but the total space it takes up is still constant. Certainly against MadoMagi I'm sure that the Saki fanbase can concentrate their power when it's time to do so. They know MadoMagi is their biggest threat, and it will show in the main round. And there wouldn't be so much hate against Saki if it wasn't such a big threat in the first place, agree?

Well timbits pointed out that Shinka was Chuu2's hidden ace, and so far he has not been proven wrong. Rika is more of a revealed ace or something. And Shinka did get 200+ votes in the prelims but Rikka didn't.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

Perhaps so but the percentages might not speak the same. I don't know how many people there are which supports this/that series so I can't draw the percentage up to confirm but it's definitely somewhere near the bulk.

Count the total number of votes and divide by 10, maybe?

For group 2 yes, Yozora topped with 110 votes so 96 could be the bulk... but just that group. And its cutoff point was nowhere near 96 either.

Originally Posted by KanbeKotori

Probably according to that, from what I've seen so far in those threads plus image boards, it clearly that way(Otherwise you won't have people posting the nicest/prettiest/moe image of the girls on those image boards, hoping people vote for them). Humans are very vain in nature, if they don't know the girls and most of them DO want to use all their votes, they'll just hop on the image boards(if they are too lazy to google the girls pictures) and select whoever they feel is the nicest/prettiest/moe. This is what we called picture voting.

Precisely the point, Saimoe is meant to be voting for the most moe girl(be it based on personality or picture) so I don't see why people are condemning those that picture votes.

I'm not against that practice so I can't comment much, but if I'm not wrong I think it's because those against it believe that the moeness of a character also involves their personality, character development etc, the latter of which requires more screen time. They're not wrong either IMO. It all depends on what one's own definition of moe is. Their definition is simply different from yours.

If I'm wrong though, anyone against picture voting feel free to correct me.

Originally Posted by wontaek

Hmmm

1. What is our sample size in this matter? Is it enough to make chance of beta error small enough?
2. What value of alpha were you using?
3. As for testing your claims, can you provide us the specific Null Hypothesis for the tests?
4. Is it possible to design Lack of Fit test for your models for your claims? That would greatly boost confidence for your claims.

Didn't expect so many questions. And I haven't even calculated other factors as well...

Can I get back to you by... September 20-something? Because that's when NUS has its recess week so I can focus on calculating stuff.

I knew taking 6 modules this semester was a bad idea. Zzz. I ended up skipping lectures just to finish typing my last post, but I can't skip any more lectures... must catch up already.

[timbits]

Oh boy the chaos begins, but first let me address something:

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

The kanji for Saimoe (最萌) means "most moe". So if you took this meaning at face value, then you would literally be voting for the characters based on appearance alone, regardless of their personalities, screen time, character development, etc.

I disagree, moe is definitely not restricted to appearance only. The definition differs from person to person but most people will describe it as a feeling they get from the character, and personalities, character development, ect. will influence that a lot.

With that said let's get down to business.

Spoiler for Round 1-A1 Picks:

Emilia Justina @ Hataraku Maou-sama!
Sera Eguchi @ Saki

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

And how do they fill it up? Randomly? Appearance of the girls they aren't going for?

To be fair, that is a pretty common practice in Saimoe tournaments...

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

Lol? Well I'm ABS so I'd rather MadoMagi win than Saki win. If MadoMagi had to win I was hoping for Madoka to win until you mentioned Sayaka's plight. And I don't even like girls with such short hair... oh well.

If Sayaka grew her hair out I'll switch camps for sure.

Here you go.

Spoiler for Long-Hair Sayaka:

I like Madoka a lot as well, but I think she's actually the biggest underdog right now of the 5 PMMM girls. She's the one that I think is least likely to win a group, and also the one most likely to not even get in through a 2nd chance. But we'll see.