|
View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Favourite Character(s) Poll | |||
Kaname Madoka | 131 | 41.85% | |
Akemi Homura | 211 | 67.41% | |
Miki Sayaka | 89 | 28.43% | |
Tomoe Mami | 102 | 32.59% | |
Sakura Kyoko | 132 | 42.17% | |
Kyubei | 80 | 25.56% | |
Shizuki Hitomi | 7 | 2.24% | |
Kamijou Kyousuke | 5 | 1.60% | |
Kaname Junko | 38 | 12.14% | |
Kaname Tomohisa | 6 | 1.92% | |
Kaname Tatsuya | 17 | 5.43% | |
Saotome Kazuko | 6 | 1.92% | |
Other | 7 | 2.24% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 313. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2011-05-15, 20:04 | Link #81 | |
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
i don't exactly see madoka's commendable trait solely as the plot demanded, but more because she was trained to, or more correctly, raised and brought up pretty well. her mom, even contemplates (considers? encourages?) that madoka should make some mistakes while still young because wounds will heal slower as one ages, implying it will be a lot more difficult to recover when older. madoka's strong desire to help others can be explained by some simple line from her mom. yes, nothing fancy, no whole arc to explain it, just a dialogue. of course, it might also because she is both good-natured and kind-hearted too naturally. however, the dialogue provided us some more convincing hints. yes, it could have been better if this was expounded in a way in visual form than mere speeches. i definitely approve too. maybe this is just the medium the staff chose as appropriate as long as the storytelling is concerned. or maybe because of real world economics? anyways, regarding madoka's lack of character development (viz. her strong desire to help which remained all consistent all through out), i think this could be better seen in a different lens. instead of finding her inner motivation of being helpful, of why, we could look for the time or moment she will "rebel" or make some mistakes. this is logical since she was raised to be a good girl, the only change or "development" will happen if she deviates from this - in other words when she turns "bad." and i think the resounding nice and juicy slap on madoka's cheek is a good development for her part. i think someone explained this better than i do, i just don't recall the link. but the essence is the same. madoka is nothing short of development. and even if she's the titular character, it doesn't guarantee she'll have the most of it, right? again, the change/s is/are short. condensed. compact. brief. but explained and provided some answers. probably the hints are sporadic and distributed. it's there if we look at the right places, i guess... just my 2 cents. |
|
2011-05-16, 05:51 | Link #85 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
Quote:
I don't even know why I'm ranting about this. It's not like I care about Madoka or anything. Sayaka's words come to mind: "I'm such an idiot".
__________________
|
||
2011-05-16, 06:11 | Link #86 | |
The Spear of Destiny
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: A place where the stars cross.
Age: 31
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-05-16, 06:43 | Link #87 |
Twilight lander
|
there is at least one direct sourse pointing at the reason for Madoka's behaviour, that being Junko's words in episode 6. Seriously, what other causes to need? She's a kind-hearted girl, willing to help everyone but not considering herself too helpful (nonetheless, she's in charge of taking people to the nurse's office and I suspect she volunteered for that). And her actions in the whole series are pretty believable to me. I've seen passive characters in anime, but oddly enough, Madoka never gave me such an impression - even before episode 3 where her character starts sketching up.
|
2011-05-16, 06:54 | Link #88 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
Now, I'm fully aware lots of people who watch anime don't really care that much about these things, and that's ok. Regardless, it's pretty much a fact that she's poorly characterized.
__________________
|
|
2011-05-16, 09:13 | Link #89 |
Twilight lander
|
Ah, my bad misunderstanding - so you were talking about her upbringing.
Well, Madoka's family IS kind and loving. And Madoka hasn't ever been hinted to experience any direct trouble outside home either. She's always had good examples to look up to (we'll skip the "can't wait to get drunk with you, Mom" part, OK? ), and there doesn't seem to have been anything to make her bitter and disillusioned about the ideals she had. Although the second factor may be less relevant - we don't see Madoka giving up on her personality even things DO go downhill. Although the emotional breakdown she undergoes is more than visible. |
2011-05-16, 09:40 | Link #90 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
As far as I remember her mother's personality is pretty much opposite to Madoka's. Her mother would not hesitate on crushing a co-worker to get a promotion, for example (this has been stated in the series) while Madoka would never do something like that.
It's clear she doesn't get her ideals from her family. Her family is loving one, but Madoka's ideals are way beyond that. Well, that would be part of the problem too, right? Why does she not give up on her personality even if she goes through really bad situations? Again, we don't know. All those traits of hers were never given any proper explanation. And having a normal, semi functional family is not even close to explain her character traits.
__________________
|
2011-05-16, 09:53 | Link #91 | |
Twilight lander
|
Quote:
Of course, by discussing this, we already deal with the motivation behind her actions in the anime that stem from her personality while you raised the question of the motivation behind the personality itself. But character ontology is hard to trace definitely. Having a normal family does not always result in someone like Madoka, but it surely was a factor. Madoka's looking up to her mother and wanting to be useful may be another. But we simply lack info on her background to judge how exactly she grew up to be like this. |
|
2011-05-16, 10:31 | Link #92 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
For example, Yuma has been abused by her parents. So, when she demonstrates an inferiority complex and also clings to the first person who treats her with kindness (in this case Kyoko) you can neatly understand why she behaves like that without even thinking about it. Plus, because you know why she acts the way she does, and where her character traits come from, you can relate to her in a way you would never be able to do with Madoka, a character you need to analyze in other to understand her actions, which defeats the purpose to begin with.
__________________
|
|
2011-05-16, 12:06 | Link #93 | |||||
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
junko-san having no regrets about the then-present madoka means the girl grew in a loving and understanding environment conducive for kind people like those with strong desire to help others. Quote:
besides, madoka's already in an age that she could take care of herself. she doesn't need to be babysit and spoon-fed or send off and fetched to school. she's a young adult, and an onee-chan to boot. and considering i really did watch a mistranslated sub and even if it's not because of mom, it's of little significance because papa is also always there. madoka has two parents. singly or mutually both parents did a good job or at least have a hand in developing madoka into a good girl. papa has a very limited screen time. so no matter how little his appearance is, maybe that's enough to make him or at least portray him to be a good husband and father. Quote:
the "high five" of bidding good bye or take care symbolizes intimacy between the two. and junko-san seems to be approachable and doesn't mind having late night talks/interviews with her daughter at all. is this unmother-like or out of character in mom's part? and in ep 11 again, there is this revelation (to sensei) that mom said the she understands madoka pretty well ever since, only now she is having difficulty, she can't see through her recently. how could she had said this if she had been so neglectful as a mother? now, you might point out about drinking. but it's just alcohol. any grown-up probably drinks alcoholic beverages. it's not as if she is drinking all the time every time after work that ultimately affects her work schedule and relationship with her family and officemates. and mom knows not to force/let madoka to drink because her daughter's underage. i see no problem with it. it's not as if she committed extramarital relationships or promiscuous sex. regarding her words in ep 2 and Quote:
the word "crushing" is a bit too harsh and implies something underhand, unlawful, or illegal. but the series itself and the ensuing dialogue tell us nothing like it, instead quite the opposite. she said that she just need to improve her sales and that might improve her footing in the company hierarchy. it's not as if she's desperate to do any means. so, i see no issue of unmotherly in junko-san's part. we must also consider that junko-san here is already an adult and living in real "adult materialistic world." yes with all the bad and undesirable where competition and money is the norm and blood. while madoka is in a transitionary stage of adolescence. the bridge between the innocent, idealistic, and pure childhood and harsh but mature adulthood. they are in different worlds. Quote:
i don't see this clearly. i'm sure in a way madoka's influenced by her family. it's not like they are polar opposites and too contrasting like black and white. i see no reason why you believe otherwise. |
|||||
2011-05-16, 12:27 | Link #94 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
If we're talking about motivations, then yes, it does. Think about Homura, or Yuma from the Oriko manga. The motivations behind their actions are so clear you don't even have to think to understand their behavior. With Madoka though, all you have is, as you said, hints. For a main character that isn't enough, more so if you consider the extent of Madoka's actions.
__________________
|
2011-05-16, 12:43 | Link #95 | ||
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
regarding other character's drive, yes, there are significant differences. the reasons, why, we could only speculate. Quote:
|
||
2011-05-16, 13:12 | Link #96 |
Senior Member
|
1. Homura. If I'd had to see all my friends die over and over again and not be able to do anything to stop it, I would have gone barking mad.
2. Kyouko. Classic example of Break the Cutie (although this could apply to all the characters) via her backstory. Episode 9 is also my favourite episode of the show, so pretty easy choice here. Apologies for a lack of further clarification, I'm not exactly the best at explaining why I like something.
__________________
|
2011-05-16, 13:18 | Link #97 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
Quote:
Of course, I can't agree with that. Can you imagine how ridiculous would be for, say Spider-Man, if instead of his guilt over his uncle's dead, his main motivation for fighting the bad guys was a loving family?? And yeah, I know Madoka is a girl, and a few years younger too. But just a loving family is not enough of a proper motivation for what she's willing to do. If this was Nanoha, or CCS, it would be ok, but not in Madoka, not when other characters in the series are somewhat properly characterized (Homura, Yuma, etc).
__________________
|
||
2011-05-16, 16:08 | Link #98 | |||
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
and we may also add her close friends and other social institutions that might affected her (school, religion, etc) but the latter would be more of an assumption, so i'll stick for now just on what we could find in the series. well, that basically gave madoka a characterization supported by direct testaments and clues abound. i'm just not exactly sure for the use of 'enough,' since it's really not too hard to understand and spot them as if they are missing and lacking. but like i said, it was unartistic and dull. maybe that's why homu-chan got an entire episode dedicated for herself, because it's more complicated whereas madoka's simple (even if she's the titular character). besides, madoka has a good support background a family, friends, and school right at the very beginning. while homu remained a mystery for sometime. in other words, madoka was presented almost transparently while homu was held back for surprises. Quote:
these happened after qb's historical lecture and 'completing' some series of minor revelations, tragedies upon tragedies that befell her close friends, even homu, and now her city and of course her entire family. her family is basically threatened. her intimately closest loved ones. kyouko shared that time might come the she has to make a decision and take the plunge. but until then don't throw away your love ones and be a magical girl just for the sake of being a magical girl. the emotional stress on the final episode is so massive that it will put to shame all other instances 'of helping others' and in all previous timelines. all other instances can be simply said as 'in spirit of helping others'. being pm helps a lot of people. madoka is not aware of the risks involved, so she's making decisions without full knowledge. but the last one is different. others might want to count her attempt to save saya back to normal. fine, that's all right. but still, she's still partly in the dark. she's not aware back then that pms (and in extension herself) would turn inevitably to witches, not just zombies. she has no knowledge about the wn battle, and that the entire human civilization depended much heavily with incubators influence. so if we will ever consider this only one instance in the final ep as 'unrealistically strong desire' to help others, i think it's justified given the situation and magnitude of emotional intensity she has to bare at that moment. the whole world is at stake. what would a good and well brought up girl going to do? and about helping others, don't confuse this of just being a magical girl. madoka's helpful even if she's just herself. and she is also human. she actually felt fear contracting. and her doubts rise as more and more of the magical girl system is revealed. |
|||
2011-05-16, 16:50 | Link #99 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Quote:
In the drama cd, when Madoka introduce Amy (the cat) to Homura, she tells Homura: "if something happens to me (aka, if I die) will you take care of Amy for me?". At that point Madoka had been a magical girl for just a week, a WEEK, and she was already talking like that, already willing to make any sacrifice to help others. So, as you see, her desire to save others is so strong and so deeply rooted into her already (even before knowing about magical girls), that there's no way just having a wonderful family and a good environment would be enough to make her that way. Look, if you feel it's enough for you, that's ok, but this sort of characterization would get you kicked out of any script writing course. That much I'm pretty sure of. She's helpful as a human yet she whined all the time that she wasn't helpful at all, from even before knowing about magical girls, as told by the drama cd. That's an inferiority complex right there that was also never given a proper explanation/reason. Totally different case than with Homura, who also had an inferiority complex but was explained by her illness and lack of friends. Madoka had good health, great friends and a wonderful family, so why was she as dissatisfied with herself as Homura was (she even compares the both of them in that respect)?? Her characterization is just weak, no matter how you look at it.
__________________
|
|
2011-05-16, 18:30 | Link #100 | |
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Kazu-Kun, remember how a long time ago on the Spoilers and Speculations thread I debated in favor of the idea that Madoka wants to be extraordinarily helpful? Well, there you go. That's a lot of Madoka's motivation when all is said and done, in my opinion. Madoka simply wants to be a magical girl super hero. She wants to be "cool" and exceptionally helpful. I think it reflects a personality that is the ideal mixture (for a magical girl) of profound caring for all other human beings, of desire for greatness, and even a touch of vanity. Madoka has all of that, and I think she hinted at it a few times in the anime. And in the end, I think that this interpretation of Madoka is the one that probably helps to explain her actions the best.
__________________
|
|
|
|