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Old 2018-08-12, 16:03   Link #121
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
So... Nebula doesn't use the Dragon's power. The Dragon was originally part of Nebula. Looks like I was right.

Anyway, while it seems that the crisis is over, there is still the matter of where the Dragon's power came from in the first place.
Maybe an entity working with the Dragon is sending human-dragon clones to susceptible planets to be taken over. Dragon power prob came for that guy I bet. His eyes did look dragon-like imo.

We're only ep. 6 so someone has to be doing responsible for this.
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Old 2018-08-12, 17:06   Link #122
Haak
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We still don't even have an answer on where those vials came from (were they a part of the dragon dude?), nor where dragon dude actually came from, nor even what it means to be a "psychic". The old guy also said that dragon dude was a different person before he obtained power. I wonder if that means there was a manipulater involved somewhere as well. Still a lot questions left to answer.
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Old 2018-08-12, 17:44   Link #123
Kanon
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I think the reason Takashi died is that he wasn't using a bottle, but his own powers and life force as the reincarnation of the Dragon. After he used it all up, he crumbled away.

And the dragon bottles were apparently given to the Earthlings by the sealing faction, because they wanted a "fair fight". Or more like, an excuse to seal them.
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Old 2018-08-13, 03:18   Link #124
Guardian Enzo
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No love for Wan-kamoto doing a Gainax pose while watching the battle play out, huh?


Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2018-08-13 at 05:27.
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Old 2018-08-13, 05:17   Link #125
moridin84
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If you want to call taking a loaded gun from a child 'invasion', then fine!
Hah. I guess they prefer the gun over knife analogy.

But that's interesting. Everything is resolved in the first half of the anime. Don't have any clue to what the rest of it will be.
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Old 2018-08-13, 05:28   Link #126
Guardian Enzo
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I don't think anything is resolved at all, really. The Sealing Faction still wants to lobotomize the human race and now Sensei, Souya and Ginko are the only ones standing in their way.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2018-08-13 at 07:03.
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Old 2018-08-13, 06:39   Link #127
Dengar
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Plus clearly the Dragon isn't gone for good.

I don't really see how it's hypocritical. Judging from Takashi's behavior, humanity clearly isn't meant to have that kind of power.

They also went to great lengths to stop one of their own from abusing their power. So to say "taking a knife from a child" is hypocritical just seems.. off.

The only problem I see is the assumption that humanity's growth needs to be stunted, but the pacifist faction does not agree with this notion in the first place.
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Old 2018-08-13, 07:06   Link #128
Guardian Enzo
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Oh, I see plenty of hypocrisy in it. It's no coincidence that Takashi used the word "colony" because I think Mizumaki is clearly making allusions to a sort of manifest destiny mentality among the Sealing Faction here. It's just that whatever flaws there are in the Sealing Faction's perspective, they don't redeem or justify that of the Dragon. And therein lies the dilemma.
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Old 2018-08-13, 09:32   Link #129
4th Dimension
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The MC's quest for revenge is over, and yet we're only half way through the show. I guess they're going to fight the sealing faction next, but I'm not sure they even need to intervene since power was taken away from Earthlings.
Except Earthlings are still dangerously warlike. Remmeber, the key doctrine of Nebula is that you either take the love route of development. Anything else results in a threat to the race itself and possibly eventually other races. The Dragon didn't just attack Sirians, who seem to be pretty similar to Terrans, for nothing. He attacked them because their warlike nature offended him so much that he chose to forgoe the standard operating procedure of Sealing and Pacifist factions trying to build a case for sealing them or trying to reform/uplift/CIVILIZE the natives/SAVAGES.

He just went KILL THEM ALL before they become trouble.

So yeah, Earthlings are still on Nebula's shit list. As of right now we have two choices. Throw away our civilization and become CIVILIZED or be turned into people who will never be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Oh, I see plenty of hypocrisy in it. It's no coincidence that Takashi used the word "colony" because I think Mizumaki is clearly making allusions to a sort of manifest destiny mentality among the Sealing Faction here. It's just that whatever flaws there are in the Sealing Faction's perspective, they don't redeem or justify that of the Dragon. And therein lies the dilemma.
I think it's less colony in the sense of them wanting to settle here or exploit our resources, but more in the still toxic way in which Western colonial powers claimed they were trying to just "civilize" local "savages". The end goal is for Earth to become either just another Nebula member with the same principles OR the sealing faction will ensure we will never pose the problem for Nebula.
Either way we'll kinda stop being humans.

Additionally, probably the only reason MC was able to defeat a reincarnation of the dragon was because he was from a warlike race. We see one of the best psychics of the Sealing faction piloting their leader and getting constantly trashed. Meanwhile this relatively random Sirian is able to match him. This might be treated as proof of how dangerously warlike Sirians and Terrans might be.
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Old 2018-08-13, 10:01   Link #130
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Oh, I see plenty of hypocrisy in it. It's no coincidence that Takashi used the word "colony" because I think Mizumaki is clearly making allusions to a sort of manifest destiny mentality among the Sealing Faction here. It's just that whatever flaws there are in the Sealing Faction's perspective, they don't redeem or justify that of the Dragon. And therein lies the dilemma.
So... Megalomaniac using force to oppress the whole world is better than... Not letting the megalomaniac use force to oppress the whole world?


I see no hypocrisy in the pacifist faction at all.
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Old 2018-08-13, 10:29   Link #131
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
So... Megalomaniac using force to oppress the whole world is better than... Not letting the megalomaniac use force to oppress the whole world?


I see no hypocrisy in the pacifist faction at all.

I think we're crossing signals here. The hypocrisy I see is with the Sealing Faction, not the Pacifist Faction. And it was the Sealing Faction's representative who made the "take a gun from a child" comment.

As for hypocrisy in the Pacifist Faction... I would say too early to tell. Some of the things we've seen in the way Sensei and Ginko deal with Souya might be seen as hypocritical, but more information could influence whether that's true or not.
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Old 2018-08-13, 11:05   Link #132
wuhugm
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The End?

Why Ginko not the main heroine instead?

What even this megane do?
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Old 2018-08-13, 12:12   Link #133
Kanon
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Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
Additionally, probably the only reason MC was able to defeat a reincarnation of the dragon was because he was from a warlike race. We see one of the best psychics of the Sealing faction piloting their leader and getting constantly trashed. Meanwhile this relatively random Sirian is able to match him. This might be treated as proof of how dangerously warlike Sirians and Terrans might be.
Agreed on the first part of your post.

About this particular point though, it should be noted that Sensei, who is also a leader, was using doping and that Soya was piloting with Ginko's help. So not sure that was supposed to prove anything.
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Old 2018-08-13, 13:14   Link #134
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
The one with the fewest assumptions is that both transformation methods utilize the same phenomenon though.... I'm not sure what you mean by "a currently unknown second force". It's Nebula, they're not unknown. It literally only assumes the one thing. Saying it comes from the dragon you have to assume that they took the little bottles and somehow integrated them into their bodies, and somehow altered the aesthetics of the armor that comes out, and somehow manage to remove the berserk switch. And somehow made it so that they cannot pilot the armors themselves and need another person to pilot it. They took a straightforward power and made it incredibly convoluted.

Not saying it's not possible, but it most certainly requires more assumptions.


Well, at least from the perspective I'm looking at it. Maybe you're seeing things from a different perspective, but you're going to have to elaborate and explain in detail.
Misunderstood is all I think. I thought you were saying that the Razor would suggest that the two phenomena were simply similar but not born from the same power, and I was saying that rather than claiming two different phenomena with two different sources the best hypothesis was that there was only one source of power like this, which I suppose is what you were saying, though asserting that the dragon had obtained the power from Nebula rather than Nebula using the dragon's power.

And actually, while it looks on the surface like it was the latter, I'm still not certain. They didn't really say what this power is. All we know is that the Dragon was part of Nebula, the Dragon had this power which has an unknown source but is accessible to multiple individuals among Nebula, and using this power under the influence of the negative form of "evolution" can result in said power taking on a form reminiscent of the Dragon. Could still be that the power comes from the Dragon's species or something. Or that it comes from the end result of this "evolution of power" which, despite their claims of danger, some races appear to have (I cannot believe there is no "power" or violence in the Dragon or their general military force). I'd say that the leader was kind of right about Nebula being arrogant and maybe a bit hypocritical, since they seem quite willing to use the very kind of power they want to suppress.

Also, one thing kind of confuses me. Initially, I thought it was setting up that the Dragon power the people were using was the "evolution of power" that they were trying to suppress, or at least that it was the trigger. There'd have to be some sort of trigger that led them to decide it was time to shut them down. I wonder whether they were given this stuff to indeed create an excuse to shut things down before they got any worse. Either that or the Dragon actually did reincarnate or perhaps just possess Takashi (thus the sudden change) and push some manner of development that immediately alerted Nebula. And if that's the case I can't imagine the Dragon is satisfied. The way Takashi viewed the Sealers feels like the Dragon inside harbors a lot of hate and resentment toward the people that killed it, and its incarnation/host being killed doesn't seem likely to appease that anger.

Last edited by BWTraveller; 2018-08-13 at 13:26.
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Old 2018-08-14, 09:30   Link #135
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think we're crossing signals here. The hypocrisy I see is with the Sealing Faction, not the Pacifist Faction. And it was the Sealing Faction's representative who made the "take a gun from a child" comment.

As for hypocrisy in the Pacifist Faction... I would say too early to tell. Some of the things we've seen in the way Sensei and Ginko deal with Souya might be seen as hypocritical, but more information could influence whether that's true or not.
Hypocrisy usually means doing the things you accuse another of doing, in a situation where both are equal. They accuse humans of being violent. They use a nonviolent solution to stop them from being violent. While this method is indeed oppressive and should be opposed, it is a different thing altogether. I do not view it as hypocrisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Misunderstood is all I think. I thought you were saying that the Razor would suggest that the two phenomena were simply similar but not born from the same power, and I was saying that rather than claiming two different phenomena with two different sources the best hypothesis was that there was only one source of power like this, which I suppose is what you were saying, though asserting that the dragon had obtained the power from Nebula rather than Nebula using the dragon's power.

And actually, while it looks on the surface like it was the latter, I'm still not certain. They didn't really say what this power is. All we know is that the Dragon was part of Nebula, the Dragon had this power which has an unknown source but is accessible to multiple individuals among Nebula, and using this power under the influence of the negative form of "evolution" can result in said power taking on a form reminiscent of the Dragon. Could still be that the power comes from the Dragon's species or something. Or that it comes from the end result of this "evolution of power" which, despite their claims of danger, some races appear to have (I cannot believe there is no "power" or violence in the Dragon or their general military force). I'd say that the leader was kind of right about Nebula being arrogant and maybe a bit hypocritical, since they seem quite willing to use the very kind of power they want to suppress.

Also, one thing kind of confuses me. Initially, I thought it was setting up that the Dragon power the people were using was the "evolution of power" that they were trying to suppress, or at least that it was the trigger. There'd have to be some sort of trigger that led them to decide it was time to shut them down. I wonder whether they were given this stuff to indeed create an excuse to shut things down before they got any worse. Either that or the Dragon actually did reincarnate or perhaps just possess Takashi (thus the sudden change) and push some manner of development that immediately alerted Nebula. And if that's the case I can't imagine the Dragon is satisfied. The way Takashi viewed the Sealers feels like the Dragon inside harbors a lot of hate and resentment toward the people that killed it, and its incarnation/host being killed doesn't seem likely to appease that anger.
No... I was implying that the "power sources" were separate. That use similar things. It's like how two different nations can develop the same technology independently of one another. It's not that strange.

I think "evolution of power" just means humans become stronger and violent, whereas "evolution of love" just means humans become stronger... in other ways?
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Old 2018-08-14, 11:08   Link #136
zztop
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Originally Posted by wuhugm View Post
The End?
With's director, Suzuki Youhei, confirmed by Twitter that there will be "wild" developments for Eps 7-9. "…there will be tears. Please watch.”

https://twitter.com/YooheySuzuki/sta...61374350647296

I assume this means this is only Part 1 of the story, the introduction.

That and following what Enzo says about Mizukami, it's how he plays with expectations and cliches.
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Old 2018-08-14, 11:21   Link #137
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
No... I was implying that the "power sources" were separate. That use similar things. It's like how two different nations can develop the same technology independently of one another. It's not that strange.

I think "evolution of power" just means humans become stronger and violent, whereas "evolution of love" just means humans become stronger... in other ways?
I think we're saying the same thing: one single power, just both groups have it. Just like electricity is electricity, whether it's developed in a single country and the technology starts to spread or it's developed repeatedly in multiple countries. The extreme similarities in manifestation certainly suggests a very strong similarity in source.

That said, Ockham's razor would still suggest that they came from one source, as a single source that was then stolen or deliberately spread to another location requires fewer assumptions than if you have to assume multiple entities coincidentally discovered the same power and use it in basically the same way. This isn't to say it can't happen, but generally dissemination of an idea is more common and likely than said idea being redeveloped repeatedly. Even if you have multiple discoveries, most nations are using technology that someone else developed.
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Old 2018-08-14, 12:24   Link #138
Haak
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Hypocrisy usually means doing the things you accuse another of doing, in a situation where both are equal. They accuse humans of being violent. They use a nonviolent solution to stop them from being violent. While this method is indeed oppressive and should be opposed, it is a different thing altogether. I do not view it as hypocrisy.
They accuse humans of being violent and yet one of their own was so violent that they destroyed an entire planet. It's no good saying he was an anomaly: You can't generalise humanity to such a degree as to declare them violent but not apply that same standard to yourself. As far as track records go, humanity hasn't destroyed an entire planet yet, whilst Nebula has. That's a textbook definition of hypocrisy.
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Old 2018-08-14, 12:52   Link #139
4th Dimension
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Humanity hasn't destroyed a planet YET, simply because we still haven't discovered means to do so. Then again even with out paltry means we are on the road IRL to fucking up Earth royally.

It's an issue of scale, someone might be pissed off by excesses of one group's worst members and go on a crusade and might be lauded for it. In this case the dragon was incensed at what worst of Sirians were doing and what they might do on larger scale and went on a rampage.
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Old 2018-08-14, 13:43   Link #140
Haak
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Humanity hasn't destroyed a planet YET, simply because we still haven't discovered means to do so. Then again even with out paltry means we are on the road IRL to fucking up Earth royally.
False Equivalence.

Being a potential murderer is not as bad as an actual murderer. And it certainly isn't worse.

Quote:
It's an issue of scale, someone might be pissed off by excesses of one group's worst members and go on a crusade and might be lauded for it. In this case the dragon was incensed at what worst of Sirians were doing and what they might do on larger scale and went on a rampage.
I don't know what that's supposed to mean. Nobody is meant to be lauding what the Dragon did. At the end of the days lives were lost, potentially billions of lives were lost. Intention has no place when it comes to judgement here. By far the most most important issue of scale is the amount of lives lost. That supercedes all other ideologies.
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