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Old 2011-10-31, 10:39   Link #5221
MD84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
Zen is at this point nothing but a tool for Ajimu, and the 5 on Zen's side are just accessories that come along with using him. She already mentioned that she gathered enough data about Medaka, now if she can create a being who can defeat said person, it'll fulfill the point of the flask plan and Zen won't be necessary to her plans anymore since she can recreate millions like him anyway.
The sad thing is, that alone makes Zenkichi closer to Ajimu than any other human right now. Thankfully, Zenkichi has no illusions about what Ajimu wants from him. Which is even sadder because it means he has a deeper and more honest relationship with Ajimu than he did with Medaka.
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Old 2011-10-31, 11:06   Link #5222
Soji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
Zen is at this point nothing but a tool for Ajimu, and the 5 on Zen's side are just accessories that come along with using him. She already mentioned that she gathered enough data about Medaka, now if she can create a being who can defeat said person, it'll fulfill the point of the flask plan and Zen won't be necessary to her plans anymore since she can recreate millions like him anyway.
I know that.
What I thought was more in line with what you said before.
After all, we know that Zen can bind better with people .... is enough to see the 5 that are with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
The sad thing is, that alone makes Zenkichi closer to Ajimu than any other human right now. Thankfully, Zenkichi has no illusions about what Ajimu wants from him. Which is even sadder because it means he has a deeper and more honest relationship with Ajimu than he did with Medaka.
What's really sad is it not only concerns with medaka but with all the student council, want I mean is even if ironic and sad this thing, the relationship that Zen have with Najimi is better than the one he had with Medaka (as you said), Akune, Misogi and Kikaijima.(and he thought of them as friends.)
I honestly do not know whether to laugh or feel sorry for him for this situation.
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Old 2011-10-31, 12:54   Link #5223
[HearT]
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
A bit of a judgement call on my part, that might just be a translation error... or not, so let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

nah, not necessarily a translation error, the word '彼女' or 'kanojo' was used, that can be translated to either 'she' or 'girlfriend', so it's still up in the air which one it really is until we get more background information のヮの
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Old 2011-10-31, 12:56   Link #5224
Odd
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Not once have I seen Zenkichi refer to anyone on the Student Council as his friend, I mean he barely interacts with them unless he's forced to. The only people who are his friends (he acknowleged them as) are probably only Munakata, Emukae, Tsurubami and Shiranui (Hansode).
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Old 2011-10-31, 13:12   Link #5225
Clarste
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This is true. I hadn't thought about it before, but Zenkichi really doesn't get along with the student council. He's hated Akune and Kumagawa since before they joined, and he tried to get along with Kikaijima but it just ended up really awkward.

...I wonder how long the author's been planning this?
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Old 2011-10-31, 14:10   Link #5226
urca
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Zenkichi DID refer to them as friends before he 'died' at his fight with Kumagawa

Spoiler for chapter 70:
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Old 2011-10-31, 14:28   Link #5227
Odd
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That was more of a spur of the moment thing in my opinion(the way it's written/said just doesn't seem all that serious even though he knew he was going to die or at least come close to death), like how Kumagawa apologised for grabbing Kikaijima's breast when he looked to be down for the count against Munakata.
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Old 2011-10-31, 16:12   Link #5228
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My take is that Zenkichi is quite honest about his affections for Kikaijima and Akune, he probably still hates Kumagawa though or at least doesn't trust him. Zenkichi's biggest fault though, if you can call it that, is that he doesn't cheat. He'll gladly accept help in the form of training, but when it comes to being given answers for tests that he must pass himself he adamantly refuses them.

As for Ajimu, I am curious to see whether or not once the Book Maker seals come off if she'll be a cheerful character again as she'll no longer be at Kumagawa's level. But that being said, she already seems to have full control of her absurd amount of abnormalities so maybe Kumagawa's seals aren't all that effective on her? Looking at chapter 71 again it seems like Ajimu was at least Medaka's friend, if not Zenkichi's girlfriend.

Throwing an absurd theory out there, but perhaps when Ajimu's seals come off Medaka will end up teaming up with her and supporting the flask plan? Perhaps with Zenkichi and ironically Kumagawa (if he survives) working together to take it down; as Zenkichi has already stated that once he's finished with the flask plan he'll probably destroy it himself.
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Old 2011-10-31, 18:10   Link #5229
Soji
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TheAlucid would not surprise me if it happened.
After I read your scenario it came to my mind another one.
I do not know why but I the feel that when Zen remember what relationship he had with Najimi he will ( somehow )convince her not to continue the flank plan(I am sure that the manga belie me ,but for now I have this feeling).
But after medaka see how Zen has become thanks to the flank plan decides to support this plan and sides with Haten that as finally shows his face.
And with this begins the real final arc of the manga ... and we will see other perfect born from the flank plan.

ok I'm pretty sure it will not happen ,but I must admit the part with Medaka I can see happenig.
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Old 2011-10-31, 20:24   Link #5230
Cruor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Spoiler:
He's done this a few times (as in killing off the most popular characters) in Zaregoto/Zerozaki from what I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
^To tell you the true...I think like you here, for me the only confirmed not_equal is Najimi since we have seen what she is capable (at least in part)
I doubt even about Haten that he is at not_equal(even if Kumagawa said he is).
I suppose we must hope for a better explanation in the next ch.
In chapter 103 Ajimu calls Hanten a Not Equal. Literally 'the Not Equals are just me and Shiranui Hanten'. So either Hanten is also another group soul like Ajimu with millions of bodies or he's powerful enough that she considers him someone on her level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Kumagawa ripped Ajimu's face off, at which point he supposedly still loved her. He also obtained All Fiction, came to dislike her, and sealed her away not long afterwards.
Actually according to Kumagawa himself he sealed both Hanten and Ajimu (Chapter 93).




Anyway, comments on 120: It seems Zen doesn't realize this fight is not just between him and Medaka anymore~ his wish to fight Medaka is actually pretty innocent.

Last edited by Cruor; 2011-10-31 at 21:07.
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Old 2011-10-31, 20:39   Link #5231
MD84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruor View Post
Anyway, comments on 120: It seems Zen doesn't realize this fight is not just between him and Medaka anymore~ his wish to fight Medaka is actually pretty innocent.
Zenkichi doesn't seem to realize that it's going to be a "Pro-Zenkichi" faction vs. "Pro-Medaka" faction (possibly with a "Both of them need to stop this lunacy" faction thrown into the mix) conflict and not just a fight between himself and Medaka, though Ajimu and Zenkichi's allies are supposedly going to sit on the sidelines when it comes to the actual final battle.

I'm not sure if that's sad or heartwarming. On one hand, one of the reasons Zenkichi agreed to Ajimu's offer was to prevent other students from suffering because of the Flask Plan, but they are still fighting and possibly dying because of it. On the other hand, it's heartwarming to see that Zenkichi has friends willing to fight for his sake -- he's not alone.

Going on a tangent, I wonder -- what exactly will the Flask Plan do to Zenkichi? If it does turn him into an Abnormal, what class would he be? He's technically a "Plus" now thanks to Ajimu's "gift", but I can't help but wonder if there's more to the Flask Plan than simply giving a Normal person a bunch of Abnormalities. I just hope the mangaka doesn't go into creepy operating room shenanigans like he did with Naze and Koga Itami.

As for the whole "Is Zenkichi friends with the rest of the Council" issue, I think it's an extension of the problems with his relationship to Medaka. Zenkichi probably did think of them as his friends -- even Kumagawa -- but deep down he didn't really understand them very well. Likewise, they didn't understand Zenkichi either, which Munakata called them out on. Medaka knows them better, but that's thanks to the "Defeat leads to friendship and understanding" side effect of her Abnormality.

Last edited by MD84; 2011-11-01 at 00:33.
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Old 2011-11-01, 09:51   Link #5232
urca
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it seems that Kumagawa would 'die' in this fight,but what if we get an interference from a guy that is stronger than both Kumagawa and Munakata?
what if Tsurubami interferes and stops the fight?Kumagawa could be cured because Zen's mom is a surgeon,anyone remembers what Tsurubami said to Zen?
'you base too much off of good intentions'
this scenario would work because we know now that Tsurubami understands the way Zenkichi thinks,anyone else thinks this is the most-likely-scenario?
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Old 2011-11-01, 10:18   Link #5233
MD84
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Originally Posted by urca View Post
it seems that Kumagawa would 'die' in this fight,but what if we get an interference from a guy that is stronger than both Kumagawa and Munakata?
what if Tsurubami interferes and stops the fight?Kumagawa could be cured because Zen's mom is a surgeon,anyone remembers what Tsurubami said to Zen?
'you base too much off of good intentions'
this scenario would work because we know now that Tsurubami understands the way Zenkichi thinks,anyone else thinks this is the most-likely-scenario?
Whatever happens, I'm pretty sure it'll turn out to be just as Ajimu planned. Come to think of it, has she ever been proven wrong about anything so far in the series? The closest thing I can think of to a mistake was letting her guard down around Kumagawa and getting herself sealed off from reality. And she even managed to turn that to her advantage.
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Old 2011-11-01, 10:20   Link #5234
Knighto
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On today's TOC Medaka Box is... 4TH!!! A new ranking has just been achieved.
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Old 2011-11-01, 11:19   Link #5235
Lummie
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The site I usually check has a couple of new spoilers:

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-01, 11:21   Link #5236
Knighto
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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
The site I usually check has a couple of new spoilers:

Spoiler:
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-01, 11:21   Link #5237
Inarius
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Originally Posted by Adan View Post
On today's TOC Medaka Box is... 4TH!!! A new ranking has just been achieved.
gawd damn >....that's music to my ears (well eyes, but whateva)
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Old 2011-11-01, 11:29   Link #5238
Lummie
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Originally Posted by Adan View Post
Spoiler for spoiler:
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-01, 11:38   Link #5239
Soji
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Thanks for the spoiler Lummie
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-01, 11:47   Link #5240
MD84
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Thanks for the spoiler Lummie
Spoiler for spoiler:
Spoiler for spoiler:
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