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Old 2010-07-24, 17:04   Link #61
Tom Bombadil
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Originally Posted by zette View Post
I think Kylaran and TinyRedLeaf articulated my thoughts perfectly in their posts here and here. Basically, it was worth every cent I paid to see it, but it did not leave the type of long-lasting impression that differentiates a good film from an excellent film.
Agreed.

One thing that annoys me a lot while watching this movie is the drug undertone. When they show the characters lie down and insert tubs in their arms, I can't help but think I am watching a bunch of drug addicts. There are certainly better ways to design the "dream machine", but the movie maker decided to choose this distasteful way.
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Old 2010-07-24, 17:43   Link #62
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For what was essentially a big budget SFX action flick it managed to be surprisingly cerebral.
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Old 2010-07-24, 18:14   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Agreed.

One thing that annoys me a lot while watching this movie is the drug undertone. When they show the characters lie down and insert tubs in their arms, I can't help but think I am watching a bunch of drug addicts. There are certainly better ways to design the "dream machine", but the movie maker decided to choose this distasteful way.
Considering that they are essentially "raping" another person's mind, I don't think taking medicine to go to sleep is too bad...Additionally, the dream machine are supposed to be like a drug themselves - the power and ability is addictive and can mess with the users personality greatly (hello Malů).
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Old 2010-07-25, 02:46   Link #64
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Speaking of drugs... were they sharing needles? It's hardly a relevant point to the movie, and my opinions of the film won't change in the slightest if they were/weren't, but it was bugging me throughout the entire film.
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Old 2010-07-25, 06:30   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
One thing that annoys me a lot while watching this movie is the drug undertone. When they show the characters lie down and insert tubs in their arms, I can't help but think I am watching a bunch of drug addicts. There are certainly better ways to design the "dream machine", but the movie maker decided to choose this distasteful way.
They're using the machines to conduct break into peoples minds to steal information and mentally reprogram them, and you're offended by it reminding you of drug paraphernalia?
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Old 2010-07-25, 10:00   Link #66
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They're using the machines to conduct break into peoples minds to steal information and mentally reprogram them, and you're offended by it reminding you of drug paraphernalia?
Yeah, the minds stealing stuff is just too unrealistic to take it seriously. So they are easily brushed aside by a bit of rational thinking. But the drug part is quite visual and graphic.
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Old 2010-07-25, 10:24   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Yeah, the minds stealing stuff is just too unrealistic to take it seriously. So they are easily brushed aside by a bit of rational thinking. But the drug part is quite visual and graphic.
So you're able to "brush aside" the entire point of the machines, but the machines use of sedatives (to put people to sleep more quickly) is "graphic"? Well, to each their own...
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Old 2010-07-25, 11:17   Link #68
Tom Bombadil
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So you're able to "brush aside" the entire point of the machines,
The same way you brush aside most of the killing in Darker than black. It is just mindless entertainment. As I mentioned, the whole plot is scifi fantasy. It is not real. I was too busy to enumerate the reasons such a thing is unfeasible to care about the what they are stealing or planting.

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but the machines use of sedatives (to put people to sleep more quickly) is "graphic"? Well, to each their own...
There are pills to relief insomnia. I don't know how "quickly" they will work. The method of sedation in the movie are mainly used in surgery rooms. If they use this frequent enough, I am sure some of them will meet Michael Jackson soon enough. Beside, I thought the sedative is the liquid in the tiny bottle the Indian guy( the driver of the van) carries.
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Old 2010-07-25, 11:41   Link #69
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Best movie ever. I completely loved it.
I feel at the end when the top was spinning/tilting or w/e you want it to be was just because they dont know if they want to spend another 10 years to make a part II .
But yea, arther is a complete BEAST in no gravity.
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Old 2010-07-25, 11:55   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
There are pills to relief insomnia. I don't know how "quickly" they will work. The method of sedation in the movie are mainly used in surgery rooms. If they use this frequent enough, I am sure some of them will meet Michael Jackson soon enough. Beside, I thought the sedative is the liquid in the tiny bottle the Indian guy( the driver of the van) carries.
That's kind of the point, though. These machines are extremely dangerous and extremely addictive (that's why those poor men in Dileep Rao's shop could no longer stand reality, instead preferring to live in the dream).

Additionally, as I said earlier, the drugs used, while given the name sedative, are essentially rufies, and Cillian Murphy's character was "date raped". So, focusing on the drugs, simply because they are more "realistic", rather than the extremely complex ethical dilemma facing the Inception team seems a little backwards to me, but obviously that is just me.
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Old 2010-07-25, 11:58   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
One thing that annoys me a lot while watching this movie is the drug undertone. When they show the characters lie down and insert tubs in their arms, I can't help but think I am watching a bunch of drug addicts. There are certainly better ways to design the "dream machine", but the movie maker decided to choose this distasteful way.
If you've not read the analysis that C.A. linked a couple of pages back, I recommend giving it a glance.

Like the author of that analysis, I find it significant that the movie never quite explained how the dream apparatus works. The shadowy organisation chasing Cobb was never fully elaborated either. More tellingly, we, the viewers, do not actually know how Cobb got to where he was at the beginning of the movie. By that, I am referring to the full sequence of events that brought him there.

We know the dots, more or less, and our imagination filled in the rest, just as how our subconscious minds supposedly fill in the details of a constructed dream. Meaning to say, the entire movie could in fact be a massive, multi-layered dream. A film is, after all, a kind of drug in itself, offering a momentary escape from reality, much as dreams too offer respite from everyday drudgery.

In a way, the closing scene, zooming in on the spinning top, is possibly a loose reference to the origami unicorn left just outside Rick Deckard's apartment before he made his escape with the replicant Rachel: It doesn't matter whether life (the dream) is real, so long as you live it to the fullest.
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Old 2010-07-25, 12:18   Link #72
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I saw it yesterday, amazing film D:
I loved it!

then the next morning

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-07-25, 13:31   Link #73
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#3 would be the best plot twist ever. But no.

umm , lets see . I forgot to mention.
Notice at the last scene the kids were the same age as they were in his MEMORIES .
Remember him saying leave out your memories , but he never left them out.
Ahh, mind blown right now. He hadn't seen them in a while , so they would have aged ; But in the last scene they didnt.
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Old 2010-07-25, 13:34   Link #74
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Spoiler for minor film spoilers...:
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Old 2010-07-25, 14:23   Link #75
zette
 
 
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Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
Under all the layers of action there is plenty of thought provoking material (often very subtle) throughout the film. What makes me love Inception so much is it's perfect blend of action and philisophical thought. It's a combination made in heaven for someone like me and I rarely find movies that pull it off well.
I guess it's a difference in taste, then. When a film tries to be philosophical, I much rather it be straightforward and direct about it, rather than, like you said, in Inception where it was more subtle.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
In a way, the closing scene, zooming in on the spinning top, is possibly a loose reference to the origami unicorn left just outside Rick Deckard's apartment before he made his escape with the replicant Rachel: It doesn't matter whether life (the dream) is real, so long as you live it to the fullest.
Yeah, I think this is what a lot of people are missing. While the debate about the ending and whether or not it was reality or just a dream is cool and all (both sides are providing very sound explanations as to why their belief is true), the more important thing here to note is that upon seeing his children, Cobb really didn't give a shit about the top and whether it would fall over or spin continuously. In the end, he has learned to not let a mere top decide his reality for him. Being with his children -- be it in dream or reality -- is all he wants.
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Old 2010-07-25, 15:15   Link #76
Tom Bombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
In a way, the closing scene, zooming in on the spinning top, is possibly a loose reference to the origami unicorn left just outside Rick Deckard's apartment before he made his escape with the replicant Rachel: It doesn't matter whether life (the dream) is real, so long as you live it to the fullest.
It is a typical MindScrew gimmick, and you can see it miles away. The script writer must be laughing his ass off since it is over analyzed by the fans.

Admittedly, the story is creative and packed with actions, but to analyze it philosophically just sounds silly. It is not the Shawshank redemption.
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Old 2010-07-25, 15:32   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Admittedly, the story is creative and packed with actions, but to analyze it philosophically just sounds silly. It is not the Shawshank redemption.
Why does it seem silly to anaylze it philisophically. Did you not catch the numerous philisophical disscussions/ideas presented throughout the movie. Sure a movie like Shawshank Redemption gives you plenty to think about at face value, but I don't get how you discredit inception for presenting any less. In fact...

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Originally Posted by zette View Post
I guess it's a difference in taste, then. When a film tries to be philosophical, I much rather it be straightforward and direct about it, rather than, like you said, in Inception where it was more subtle.
Maybe that is the problem, that the film is not very direct (like Shawshank Redemption) with a lot of it's underlying themes. Whatever the problem may be I see no problem in saying that Inception incorporates many philisophical themes.

This movie was not just soley focused on action and creativity, it had much more to offer than that.

Okay so Inception is admittedly imaginative with its dream worlds and architecture, but the basic concept of dreams, and dreams within dreams, are of course borrowed from our "real world." More importantly, the idea of the relationship between a father and his son, including acceptance or rejection, or the father's blessing or curse upon son was presented throughout the film. We also have the concepts of criminality and false allegations, and the guilt a lover feels for the loss of his beloved.

The film deals with serious, life or death issues; suicide and the false allegation of murder. The movie also calls the basic idea of reality into question. The film centers around that one essential idea, that the world around us is not real.

In regards to that theme, my favorite converse in the film.

Spoiler for spoiler:


There is a lot of depth to this movie that people are missing (maybe from only seeing the film once, thus not catching everything or just genuinely didn't notice).

Last edited by GuidoHunter_Toki; 2010-07-25 at 17:32.
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Old 2010-07-26, 00:20   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
It is a typical MindScrew gimmick, and you can see it miles away. The script writer must be laughing his ass off since it is over analyzed by the fans.

Admittedly, the story is creative and packed with actions, but to analyze it philosophically just sounds silly. It is not the Shawshank redemption.
Like you, I also saw the "gimmick" before it happened, but I wasn't as upset about it as you apparently are.

I also roll my eyes when I hear giggly young interns at my office raving about how "intellectual" the film is. They remind me of another friend who spoke glowingly about how V for Vendetta made her think about "scary issues" like censorship.

It speaks volumes, really, about their lack of exposure to literature and films that truly push the barriers about what's acceptable, the stories that really make people sit up, take notice and think harder. If not for a blockbuster movie, they might never even have considered such possibilities at all.

But... that's just me. The one thing I've come to understand about myself is that I can be too arrogant about my personal tastes. For every point of view I find stupid or shallow, I can easily find another that exposes how little I know, putting me to shame, reminding me that it's sometimes "better to be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt".

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Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
Maybe that is the problem, that the film is not very direct (like Shawshank Redemption) with a lot of it's underlying themes. Whatever the problem may be I see no problem in saying that Inception incorporates many philisophical themes.

This movie was not just soley focused on action and creativity, it had much more to offer than that.

Okay so Inception is admittedly imaginative with its dream worlds and architecture, but the basic concept of dreams, and dreams within dreams, are of course borrowed from our "real world." More importantly, the idea of the relationship between a father and his son, including acceptance or rejection, or the father's blessing or curse upon son was presented throughout the film. We also have the concepts of criminality and false allegations, and the guilt a lover feels for the loss of his beloved.

The film deals with serious, life or death issues; suicide and the false allegation of murder. The movie also calls the basic idea of reality into question. The film centers around that one essential idea, that the world around us is not real.
The problem, to me, wasn't that those above themes were not surfaced, but that they were not fully developed, in the way the conflict between good and evil was explored at multiple levels in The Dark Knight, for example.

As a result, those themes felt very much more like "gimmicky" devices, put there to impress naive audiences, rather than to advance "philosophical" ideas. Perhaps it's more a result of shoddy editing than actual film direction. It's hard to say unless we have a full view of the entire screenplay, and some knowledge about any scenes that were cut away during post-production.

So, no, I don't agree with the supposed "subtlety" of Inception. I find the movie about as subtle as a sledgehammer — the balance was tilted more towards action and pursuit, rather than ruminations over right and wrong.

It's most certainly not, in my opinion, a movie that is trying to make any comments about social issues. Rather, it plays on popular ideas about dreaming and reality, and spins a very exciting story around those themes. As an action movie, it works splendidly. As a movie that is supposed to make me think? Nah, I don't think so. Trumpeting such supposed aspects of Inception sounds too much to me like overblown hype.
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Old 2010-07-26, 00:33   Link #79
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It is not the Shawshank redemption.
Good because I hated that movie.
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Old 2010-07-26, 02:01   Link #80
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
As a movie that is supposed to make me think? Nah, I don't think so. Trumpeting such supposed aspects of Inception sounds too much to me like overblown hype.
For a movie that didn't make you think, you are sure thinking about how little you thought of it...

Joking aside, you are correct. There was plenty that could have been done with this film, but, instead, it appears that Nolan felt like creating an exciting film littered with "hints" that can lead to both conclusions (dream/no dream) without creating any real dissent amongst the evidence (or the audience). This was quite a beautiful instance of "making your pie and eating it too" So, from a purely structural level, Inception is deceptively deep in its construction (easily Nolan's best effort as a director), but emotionally/philosophically/psychologically, the film is only as deep as the brief explanations the script...I mean Ellen Paige gives for the various behaviours.

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Good because I hated that movie.
I'm one of the few people that saw this film in theatres, yet I still do not understand the films appeal (nor do I understand how it was nominated for Best Picture in 1994...then again, that was a bad year for Best Picture nominees). It's definitely good, but in no way is it as impressive or amazing as fans make it out to be.
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