Bleach Weekly Episode Discussion Thread - 353-365 [Anime-Only]

[sayde]

I don't think OVA's are a bad idea. Hell, I'd even be willing to see the series get a proper conclusion with an animated movie. Unfortunately, I don't see the final arc in the manga being as short as the fullbring arc was. If I was a betting man, I'd wager this final arc could very well be about as long as the entire arrancar saga--especially if Kubo intends on developing a plot that will ultimately answer all our lingering mysteries. Still, if you consider how many chapters a single episode could cover (going by Kubo's sluggish pace), it might be possible to finish out the remainder of the series with one or two more seasons composed of episodes jammed packed with canon content and absolutely no filler *with the right editing*. Of course, we're likely talking at least a couple years before this has a chance of happening (if ever).

[itachi-san314]

I think a second show will happen. something like FMA (a 64 ep show) for the last arc. most likely re-written and edited into a story resembling the last arc, but much better and more compact and with no filler (or just a fun one every 20 or so eps). after 350+ eps bleach clearly has a big fan base and an important part of anime history despite the ratings decline. perhaps a break in the show will draw back some people who gave up on it and get them interested in Bleach GT or whatever it will be called

[Excelion]

Without going too far off topic of the anime here (just the OVA discussion), I thought I read somewhere that Kubo planned for 2 more arcs after Aizen: a 6 month short arc and one more 2 year arc. Maybe we'll get something in a year or two.

Looking back, I haven't missed a single episode of Bleach and started watching when it was on around episode 10 (hadn't read any manga of anything at that time). Watched all 366 episodes, including filler. That's how much I've liked this show. RIP Bleach, you've had a great run.

[Arabesque]

For a penultimate episode, 365 simply fell so far off the mark that it was hard for me to not feel disappointed. Yes, I know that Bleach isn't the first show that springs to mind when one thinks about good looking animation (being a long running kids series and all) but I would've imagined going by the past episode preview that this episode would end up looking much better than this. We had several episodes in the past that looked uniformly consistent in art and had very nice action creative action in them during the past two arcs, so I thought that it would've made sense if the staff had made the same effort as the anime neared it's finally.

I'm not sure if the news of the anime end had caught them by surprise or if the staff hadn't really cared by this point, but this episode looked like they just stitched together several storyboards from a planned 5 episodes into one and then just called it a day. The artwork was very inconstant, some shots looked like they weren't done animating, and there was that one scene where Ishida looked like he had just mugged a christian rock group car. Even the nicely animated bits looked unpolished and lacked the same level of impact as past climatic episodes in the past had.

The omake wasn't even funny ...

Really disappointing.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I'm not sure if the news of the anime end had caught them by surprise or if the staff hadn't really cared by this point, but this episode looked like they just stitched together several storyboards from a planned 5 episodes into one and then just called it a day. The artwork was very inconstant, some shots looked like they weren't done animating, and there was that one scene where Ishida looked like he had just mugged a christian rock group car. Even the nicely animated bits looked unpolished and lacked the same level of impact as past climatic episodes in the past had.

The news likely did catch them somewhat by surprise. That's why the arc started with normal pacing, and suddenly switched to burning through chapters and cutting material.

[alarmadadna hadi]

but I would've imagined going by the past episode preview that this episode would end up looking much better than this.

My disappointment as well. Oh well.

[wingdarkness]

Bleach simply ate itself to death...

While I was very complimentary to many aspects of this final arc (Especially the mysterious nature of things revealed in flashbacks that made sense [skull-badge included] and how it started), in the end the show ripped itself and by extension YuYu Hakusho so much there's nothing else left but Yusuke's skeleton...

The reveal that this battle would be a showdown between former spirit-detectives Substitute Shinnys was pretty much the last straw for me...It's one thing to admire and be inspired by another work but to rip it so much thru-out the history of a show hints to Kubo being more machine than man at this point...

You can even see in his presentation of Tsukishima, that it was almost a hint of an Aizen reduex with his "mind-raeping" abilities...The show is a cannibal...

I will totally miss Bleach and I don't think it's a stretch to say lots of members here could have comeup with ways to end things more credibly...But I won't skin a black-cat named Yourichi too much (see how I did that?^^)...Bleach was always a style over substance show and for lovers of style (fighting or otherwise) it exceeded it's expectations...

Bleach MAX, the final season 2 years from now..Callin' it! ...

That season we will fight the Soul King and learn what Bleach means all while Ichigo's mom does the Shinigami Golden! Tatsuki and Ichigo having a kid out of wedlock, optional...

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The reveal that this battle would be a showdown between former spirit-detectives Substitute Shinnys was pretty much the last straw for me...It's one thing to admire and be inspired by another work but to rip it so much thru-out the history of a show hints to Kubo being more machine than man at this point...

I don't think that Bleach can be compared to Yu Yu Hakusho at this point, especially not the confrontation between Ginjo and Ichigo. Not because Kubo didn't model this after YYH (he obviously did) but because when you look past the surface of former-detective/substitute vs. current-detective/substitute, there is nothing about the finale showdown in Bleach that can be said to be better than the one in YYH or even make it compelling as it's own story.

In YYH, Sensui had understandable motives, reasons, a back story for why he was the way he was, how he came to be an antagonist. More than that, you could completely understand why he decided to do the evil things he'd done. He was a character on his own, with his own history and relation to the rest of the cast, so the effect of his actions extended beyond just affecting Yusuke on his own.

In here ... what is Ginjo's reason for repelling against SS? From what I can gather, it was because they gave him a badge that kept them able to keep him under check and know where he was, helped him control his powers and analyzed his powers. Okay, I can get that he might not be so keen on the idea of being under surveillance (even if he thought about SS position, this was the sensible thing to do, since Ginjo and Ichigo were abnormalities that they needed to make sure wont go around causing things to fall out of balance) but what about it that made him go mad? What drove him to think that the people he trusted betrayed him? Were they recording him sing and then laugh at him behind his back, and when he found out he got angry about it? Or what was bad about keeping his powers under control? What, did Ginjo want his spiritual energy running wild while he slept, causing Hollows to target him or making people start to develop spiritual powers they didn't want?

Sensui went mad because he came to realize that the very people he swore to defend from monsters were in fact the real monsters, crashing down his entire believes and frame of mind. He also had other factors that pushed him over the edge over time, but when that event happened, it was momentous enough for his mind to implode. Ginjo went mad because he was making a mountain out of a mole hole.

But even if we were to get past that Ginjo had no credible motivation or reason to do the things he'd done (or even when he straight out tells Tsukishima not to brain wash Ishida yet since it wouldn't be fun () and explains his entire plan in front of the guy he just attacked who is related to the guy they are about to con, proving that he's an idiot to add on top of it all) you realize that now that the all the Fullbringers ended up losing badly to the shingami's, there is no one who knew Ginjo. There is no captain or person who Ginjo might have built a relationship with off screen, before Bleach started, no one to be sad about how things had gotten to this point ... Ginjo is going to exit this story without leaving any sort of mark, any sort of past history with anyone that matters. The only reason why he's here is to get Ichigo his powers back, and now that that job is done, there is no reason for him to do any of this.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

The only reason why he's here is to get Ichigo his powers back

Actually, he wasn't even needed for that.

[wingdarkness]

@Arabesque - You miss my point...it's not that Ginjo's character is comparable with Shinobu Sensui it's just another iteration that Kubo has ripped from YYH in the penultimate arc...

Aizen's entire goal of evening the playing field between Hollows and Shinigamis (Spirit world and demon world if you will) was ripped from Shinobu Sensei's character...

I mean Bleach has ripped so much from YYH, where to begin (You want me to list them all)? But my ire was with the final arc of the show being yet another YYH rip, not that Ginjo is anything close to the elegant essence and purity of evil that is Shinobu Sensei...

BTW, Shinobu Sensei is literally my favorite villain of alltime in any anime and i could teach a college level class on him, so it's irritating to see him ripped so badly in bleach...

Again I will mis Bleach, and I really for the most part enjoyed Bleach, but dammit if kubo didn't go to a YYh rip whenever he was in doubt...Ichigo fighting the former guy in his spirit agent position? That's another rip and an obvious one for any YYH enthusiast...

[Guido]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I don't think that Bleach can be compared to Yu Yu Hakusho at this point, especially not the confrontation between Ginjo and Ichigo. Not because Kubo didn't model this after YYH (he obviously did) but because when you look past the surface of former-detective/substitute vs. current-detective/substitute, there is nothing about the finale showdown in Bleach that can be said to be better than the one in YYH or even make it compelling as it's own story.

In YYH, Sensui had understandable motives, reasons, a back story for why he was the way he was, how he came to be an antagonist. More than that, you could completely understand why he decided to do the evil things he'd done. He was a character on his own, with his own history and relation to the rest of the cast, so the effect of his actions extended beyond just affecting Yusuke on his own.

In here ... what is Ginjo's reason for repelling against SS? From what I can gather, it was because they gave him a badge that kept them able to keep him under check and know where he was, helped him control his powers and analyzed his powers. Okay, I can get that he might not be so keen on the idea of being under surveillance (even if he thought about SS position, this was the sensible thing to do, since Ginjo and Ichigo were abnormalities that they needed to make sure wont go around causing things to fall out of balance) but what about it that made him go mad? What drove him to think that the people he trusted betrayed him? Were they recording him sing and then laugh at him behind his back, and when he found out he got angry about it? Or what was bad about keeping his powers under control? What, did Ginjo want his spiritual energy running wild while he slept, causing Hollows to target him or making people start to develop spiritual powers they didn't want?

Sensui went mad because he came to realize that the very people he swore to defend from monsters were in fact the real monsters, crashing down his entire believes and frame of mind. He also had other factors that pushed him over the edge over time, but when that event happened, it was momentous enough for his mind to implode. Ginjo went mad because he was making a mountain out of a mole hole.

But even if we were to get past that Ginjo had no credible motivation or reason to do the things he'd done (or even when he straight out tells Tsukishima not to brain wash Ishida yet since it wouldn't be fun () and explains his entire plan in front of the guy he just attacked who is related to the guy they are about to con, proving that he's an idiot to add on top of it all) you realize that now that the all the Fullbringers ended up losing badly to the shingami's, there is no one who knew Ginjo. There is no captain or person who Ginjo might have built a relationship with off screen, before Bleach started, no one to be sad about how things had gotten to this point ... Ginjo is going to exit this story without leaving any sort of mark, any sort of past history with anyone that matters. The only reason why he's here is to get Ichigo his powers back, and now that that job is done, there is no reason for him to do any of this.

The reasons are well more than established, and you did a magnificient job (I'm not being sarcastic, if you're thinking otherwise).

The analogies between Bleach's Fullbringers arc and YYH Chapter Black arc to the least are superficial starting with the antagonists: Ginjou and Sensui completely dissimilar from each other.
Nobody who ever knew of the former is going to cry for him, but the latter did left his mark on both human and youkai who knew him.

BTW, Ichigo skyrocketed to even more moronic levels; srsly, what does everyone see on him to gasp that he's so cool?
I think otherwise he's an idiot and not because he's reckless and headstrong, since that trait is a common trope with almost all the kinds of shounen heroes protagonists out there.