What's with all this Orihime hate?

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

...But one thing we can agree on. That dress did make her ass look big.

Who needs religion or politics to cross divides. We just need to unite in our dislike of big ass dresses

[BK-201]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I wouldn't really say that. I mean, Ichigo himself rushed off into HM assuming he was in it alone and that he would have no support from anyone. He got lectures from Chad and later on Rukia about having faith in his friends and allies. It's not that he doesn't know what friendship is, it's just that his problems are well... his problems not anyone else's. Assuming people will rush to his aid isn't the first thing that enters his mind.

So I wouldn't really call it a misunderstanding of the concept of friendship. It's like the example with Ichigo above. Orihime is someone who would do anything for her friends but sometimes feels she has to face her own problems alone rather than bringing burden on others even thought she should realize that's not the case.


...But one thing we can agree on. That dress did make her ass look big.

Excuse me. I mean you no disrespect--- I just had to say. That's not true

Ichigo didn't lack faith in anyone but Chad (Which is understandable)

Ishida was powerless as far as he knew. Byakuya and Zaraki put the muscle on Rukia and Renji. Yamji said "NO"

He had a reason for believing he was alone. He didn't have time to wait either. Not really...

Orihime did not--she has no such excuse. In fact during her breakdown. She admits that she thought Ichigo would never lose. That he would save everyone. That would make her a hypocrite, no?


Didn't she leave because she thought he couldn't win? You don't see the contradiction in that?

I find it hard to believe that she could forget the guy she's been eyeballin the entire manga. Would come to her rescue. So no matter how noble her "Sacrifice" sounds. It wasn't....

That's all I had to say.

Since I am here. I can say. I don't dislike her--atm. But I almost sure, I am only tolerating her for my ship (UH)

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by BK-201

Ichigo didn't lack faith in anyone but Chad (Which is understandable)

Ishida was powerless as far as he knew. Byakuya and Zaraki put the muscle on Rukia and Renji. Yamji said "NO"

He didn't have time to wait either. Not really...

Ichigo found out from Urahara that Aizen had use for her powers which meant she likely wasn't in any immediate danger. He had time, but rushed in alone without even considering that Rukia and Renji might find a way to help him. It was understandable, but even Rukia said it demonstrated a lack of faith in his friends.

He basically did the same thing everyone accusing Orihime of and was even called out for it in the story. Ichigo's human. He had to be reminded he could count on his friends. It's not like everyone has this complete understanding of friendship that Orihime lacks.

Didn't she leave because she thought he couldn't win? You don't see the contradiction in that?

I find it hard to believe that she could forget the guy she's been eyeballin the entire manga. Would come to her rescue. So no matter how noble her "Sacrifice" sounds. It wasn't....

Her choice wasn't whether to leave or not. Ulq made it clear she was going to HM either way. The only choice was whether or not she would cooperate, and if she didn't then her allies would be killed, which Ulq backed up by showing her all of them being smacked down by the arrancar (who were dominating at the moment). There was more to it then just Ichigo. Her allies' lives were at stake.

Second, Orihime has complete faith in Ichigo, but he doesn't believe he's invincible. Ichigo was beaten badly by GJ, she knew because she healed his injuries while saying goodbye. Seeing how powerful the enemies were along with the fact that nearly everyone was in the middle of making preparations to fight them when she got kidnapped I think it's pretty reasonable why she didn't take an immediate rescue for granted. That's the type of thing that only seems obvious to someone who realizes they're in a shounen manga.

But with that, I gotta say that I lost interest in Hime after the fight with GJ. I thought she was the most engaging character during the arrancar/early HM arc where she gained all her infamy. Looked like she was starting to mature from just being a ditz, but then she just got to be too much of a crybaby. So I don't have much to say about her after this.

Originally Posted by Langus

Who needs religion or politics to cross divides. We just need to unite in our dislike of big ass dresses.

[qqwwqw]

If Isshin (his father) is shinigami and masaki(his mother) is a human
it's just like ichigo is substitute shinigami and orihime is human

but we can't compare rukia with ichigo
(Substitute Shinigami with shinigami)

if man married woman, and he is older than his wife that's not problem
but if the oppsite, she is older than his husband, here the problem you know why
it's logical can't married and there is another problems all people in the world know that

Isshin is older than masaki ( can married)
It's just like ichigo is older than orihime ( can married )

but rukia is very older than ichigo (her age=160 years {from chapter 1} and his age=16 years)

substitute shinigami is different than shinigami
substitute shinigami is originally human but have shinigami power (that why ichigo's age is 16)

that's why i like her

[Alchemist007]

Quite the POV in logic there.

[Mr. Wang]

Originally Posted by qqwwqw

If Isshin (his father) is shinigami and masaki(his mother) is a human
it's just like ichigo is substitute shinigami and orihime is human

but we can't compare rukia with ichigo
(Substitute Shinigami with shinigami)

if man married woman, and he is older than his wife that's not problem
but if the oppsite, she is older than his husband, here the problem you know why
it's logical can't married and there is another problems all people in the world know that

Isshin is older than masaki ( can married)
It's just like ichigo is older than orihime ( can married )

but rukia is very older than ichigo (her age=160 years {from chapter 1} and his age=16 years)

substitute shinigami is different than shinigami
substitute shinigami is originally human but have shinigami power (that why ichigo's age is 16)

that's why i like her

Um... as much as I like Ichihime over IchiRuki, that's not exactly a good argument. I mean, yeah, Rukia's going to live hundreds of years longer than Ichigo, and eventually he might die some day. However, with all his supernatural spiritual power, I wouldn't be surprised if he could live as long as her. Hell, in the case that Ichigo does die (assuming from old age) Ichigo will go to Soul Society anyway, where he'll meet up with Rukia the two might be together for like... hundreds more years. Besides, taking in the standards of Sould Society, ten years there equal one here. So Rukia might be 160 in the Soul Society, but when she enters the human world, she's 16 here.

But to say that since a girl is older than a guy, that's automatically throwing the possibility of a relationship out the window? My friend is dating a girl four years older than him. Does that mean the relationship is heading toward a cliff? Your argument is kinda weak, no offense. And this is coming from an Ichihime supporter.

[Mr. DJ]

I doubt meeting up with Rukia would be the easily after he officially dies...unless they somehow keep their memories from the previous life...

[Mr. Wang]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

I doubt meeting up with Rukia would be the easily after he officially dies...unless they somehow keep their memories from the previous life...

They do remember their memories. Remember when Yūichi (the kid whose soul was embedded in a parakeet during the first arc) was able to reunite with Chad in the Soul Society? They then fulfilled a promise back in the world of the living when Chad carried him on his back around the Rukon district. That's at least an example that people retain memories of their past lives.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wang

They do remember their memories. Remember when Yūichi (the kid whose soul was embedded in a parakeet during the first arc) was able to reunite with Chad in the Soul Society? They then fulfilled a promise back in the world of the living when Chad carried him on his back around the Rukon district. That's at least an example that people retain memories of their past lives.

I think that was particularly a special case given the circumstances

[debbiechan]

Ichigo is already dead--that argument has been made over and over. His soul chain was cut by Urahara and his human body essentially functions as a gigai, so Ichigo IS a Shinigami in one sense now (although technically a Masked Hybrid since he contains a Hollow element in his soul along with the Shinigami component). Suffice it to say, his reiatsu guarantees him a long long long existence. He's not going to live and die a normal human death.

(OT but I just had to answer that because it's one of the many reasons people say Ichigo can't be with this person or that--at first it was he couldn't be with Rukia because she's Shinigami and he's human and now there's a spammer around the forums saying he can't be with Rukia because he's not a full Shinigami like his dad or Rukia's older than Ichigo or some sort of convoluted logic.... the whole you have to be human/human or Shinigami/Shinigami makes for a compatibility argument in shipping but doesn't really hold water in a fantasy world where whatever can happen WILL. )

[EnchantingPrincess]

Originally Posted by debbiechan

Ichigo is already dead--that argument has been made over and over. His soul chain was cut by Urahara and his human body essentially functions as a gigai, so Ichigo IS a Shinigami in one sense now (although technically a Masked Hybrid since he contains a Hollow element in his soul along with the Shinigami component). Suffice it to say, his reiatsu guarantees him a long long long existence. He's not going to live and die a normal human death.

(OT but I just had to answer that because it's one of the many reasons people say Ichigo can't be with this person or that--at first it was he couldn't be with Rukia because she's Shinigami and he's human and now there's a spammer around the forums saying he can't be with Rukia because he's not a full Shinigami like his dad or Rukia's older than Ichigo or some sort of convoluted logic.... the whole you have to be human/human or Shinigami/Shinigami makes for a compatibility argument in shipping but doesn't really hold water in a fantasy world where whatever can happen WILL. )

I've been trying to get that point out to everyone who believes that Rukia can't be with Ichigo.

[Alchemist007]

I never really gave the age thing much thought myself. I figure they're much more platonic and quite probably the best example if I've ever seen one. Though I figure if Rukia is going to be with someone, it's going to be a much more manned up version of Renji, by which I mean Renji taichou

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by debbiechan

Ichigo is already dead--that argument has been made over and over. His soul chain was cut by Urahara and his human body essentially functions as a gigai, so Ichigo IS a Shinigami in one sense now (although technically a Masked Hybrid since he contains a Hollow element in his soul along with the Shinigami component). Suffice it to say, his reiatsu guarantees him a long long long existence. He's not going to live and die a normal human death.

yes yes, we know Ichigo is like Krillin, dies multiple times and just comes right back ;p

remind me of something...cause I remember the whole re-training thing, but I don't remember when Ichigo even got a gigai or if it was even implied...

[debbiechan]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

yes yes, we know Ichigo is like Krillin, dies multiple times and just comes right back ;p

remind me of something...cause I remember the whole re-training thing, but I don't remember when Ichigo even got a gigai or if it was even implied...

oh no, Ichigo never got a gigai--I said that his human body functions as a gigai--in other words, it houses his soul but Urahara DID sever his spirit chain during that training so Ichigo IS a shinigami who can roam around after leaving his body (his gigai). The reason Kon stays in Ichigo's body, in fact, is so it won't rot (because it's dead). So Ichigo's body is soul-less when Ichigo is a Shinigami unless Kon's soul occupies it; therefore, Ichigo's body functions as a gigai.

Did that make sense?

In other words, Ichigo's body is already dead. It can't die a normal human death again. So there's going to be no loss of memory or whatever and his going to SS as a normal soul. He's already a "noble" of SS by virtue of being a Shinigami (all shinigami are nobles of the Seireitei--and although Ichigo is by title a "substitute Shinigami" his very reiatsu puts beyond most of the captains if not all).

Though I figure if Rukia is going to be with someone, it's going to be a much more manned up version of Renji, by which I mean Renji taichou

Kubo sensei has said in interview that Renji doesn't have what it takes to be a captain, that the captains have something "special." I can get the source later but I'm off with my kids atm. Now, conceivably, Renji could develop in his character what it takes to be a captain somewhere down the manga timeline but I don't see it coming anytime soon. He still seems young and impulsive. Ichigo too for that matter. The captains are a whole nuther league despite ban kai and reiatsu and skills. They have leadership qualities.

[Alchemist007]

Heh, that's pretty cold. Though I can't say there's a league of difference between him and say Hitsugaya.

[SakuraHououji-NoMiko]

I love reading debbiechans posts! i kinda feel like a stalker, because I joined your "Bleachness" community too, lol. But I always love what you post and you do it so well. IchiHime fans have good points they make just like IchiRuki fans, but yeah I'm sure most of the IchiHime fans (that aren't spammers, trolls, or just name-calling, buttholes) can agree that the age thing and the dead/not-dead thing are not valid arguments for the very reasons already listed. I'll mention them again briefly:

- human world age and SS age count different. i.e. in SS they all age slower, so Rukia, by SS, standards, would be the same age as Ichigo.

- Ichigo's father is Shinigami and he managed to fall in love with Masaki and have a family, so it is possible. (I still wonder if Masaki was even human, lol, but I'm assuming she was for now.)

- Ichigo's soul chain was cut/hacked/severed/destroyed/whatever before he went to SS. Ichigo is dead and his himan body now suffices as a gigai. Can anyone even really deny that point? But it seems to get overlooked a lot. Denial~river~Egypt, and all that.

Going back to the topic - most people don't really hate Orihime, only her behavior, or actions, or what she has become....... and then yes there are the ones that simply hate and can't stand her.

PS
Any IchiRuki fans that are spammers, trolls, or just name-calling buttholes are to be ignored as well. And i can't see Renji being a Captain either at least not for a loooooong time. I always hate how he keeps getting his butt whipped while in Bankai (which he seems to use as if it was his shikai.) Even though Ichigo seems Bankai crazy too, but then he doesn't have the training Renji does (sword-fighting and kidou)

[Mr. Wang]

Even though I myself am an Ichihime shipper, I completely respect and agree with all your arguments over why IchiRuki can/should be real. We all have very good ideas and ways of perceiving things. It's nice to see different manners of interpretation (I must admit, Debbiechan, you make your arguments very clear and carefully thought out). I suppose I'm still somewhat nuetral...
Quite frankly, I'm glad that Tite Kubo so far has kept Ichigo rather neutral when it comes to romances in Bleach. Should Ichigo choose to be with one girl or another, Bleach has a large enough fanbase to have a very vocal reaction to that. Should IchiRuki become canon, I'm sure several fans will rejoice. Of course, some of the other pairing fans might be complaining and sending a lot of angry letters and spam IchiRuki hatespeech all over several forums, complaining about all the hate and Orihime-bashing. On the other hand, if Ichihime is canon... Well, I have no doubt it will raise a chaotic uproar and eventually mean war... I think you guys get the point already.

[Alchemist007]

That's why Kubo Tite aka KILLER TROLLMASTER, will probably make the pairing at the end of the series so as to say "THIS IS HOW I WANTED IT ALL ALONG G2GPEACEHAHA."

[EnchantingPrincess]

Kubo denied that Rukia and Ichigo will be together yet he denied that they won't be together when it comes to bleach romance. That can change though, he may just end up, pairing them at the end of the seiries. I feel sorry for Orihime though if Ichigo does choose Rukia she'll be heart broken even though i'm a IchiRuki fan I still feel sad for Orihime.

[Alchemist007]

Lesson: Don't take what KT says too seriously.