(L) Monogatari Series Light Novel discussion

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Are there any ships to sink? Senjōgahara has been official for ages. Even if there are other girls who like Araragi, he already has a girlfriend and has made it clear several times he loves her - even if he plays with other girls.

Yea, what you said pretty much describes perfectly the whole love situation in the series. Although one can argue that he is closer to some of the other girls than Senjougahara. He loves Senjougahara but that doesn't mean he'll treat her any better than the other girls.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

On an unrelated note, I can't wait till we find out what the heck could would give rise to a Medusa.

I think it will be a different system from Hanekawa. Probably it is some kind of cursed item that Nadeko picked up as a child and kept in her closet. This item has probably already affected the personality of Nadeko since her childhood. I think a more important question is: who will Nadeko turn into stone? Or is the effect of a medusa different here? (probably it will involve Tsukihi, that conveniently can be restored at the end)

Anyway, it has been obvious from the first book that the official pairing is with Senjougahara. I don't know why people were expecting otherwise On the other hand, Araragi and Hanekawa still love each other, it's just that their story didn't work out, and they both know it.

Spoiler for shiro:

In shiro Hanekawa states that she started loving Araragi just because he helped Senjougahara. In the end of the book she becomes able to feel the sadness of being refused by him, but she loves him even more than before. When Araragi said that if she wanted Hanekawa could still stay in his room (she could have slept on the bed besides him, under the bed if she wished, or even better using him as the bed), Hanekawa declined, thinking his virtue was at risk.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

I think it will be a different system from Hanekawa. Probably it is some kind of cursed item that Nadeko picked up as a child and kept in her closet. This item has probably already affected the personality of Nadeko since her childhood. I think a more important question is: who will Nadeko turn into stone? Or is the effect of a medusa different here? (probably it will involve Tsukihi, that conveniently can be restored at the end)

Anyway, it has been obvious from the first book that the official pairing is with Senjougahara. I don't know why people were expecting otherwise On the other hand, Araragi and Hanekawa still love each other, it's just that their story didn't work out, and they both know it.

Spoiler for shiro:

In shiro Hanekawa states that she started loving Araragi just because he helped Senjougahara. In the end of the book she becomes able to feel the sadness of being refused by him, but she loves him even more than before. When Araragi said that if she wanted Hanekawa could still stay in his room (she could have slept on the bed besides him, under the bed if she wished, or even better using him as the bed), Hanekawa declined, thinking his virtue was at risk.

Wasn't there a line where Hanekawa said she started liking him when he and Shinobu were tearfully killing each other? It was in chapter 61.

Also, I admit that it's possible that Nadeko's personality could have been warped. I mean a lot of people seems to neglect the fact that she killed poisonous snakes and tearing them apart. <---so moe

[Wigwams]

btw who is gaen izuko? what role does she play in the story?

hanekawa should have accepted that offer IMO.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by omimon

Wasn't there a line where Hanekawa said she started liking him when he and Shinobu were tearfully killing each other? It was in chapter 61.

Ah yeah, because he was crying. Hanekawa had never cried in her whole life. However, I think it's with Senjougahara she started thinking of him as boyfriend material.

Also, I admit that it's possible that Nadeko's personality could have been warped. I mean a lot of people seems to neglect the fact that she killed poisonous snakes and tearing them apart. <---so moe

She has a problem with persons, but in itself the problem is not fearfulness.

EDIT

Originally Posted by Wigwams

btw who is gaen izuko? what role does she play in the story?

Spoiler for shiro:

She is the senpai of Oshino. We still don't know up to now what role she plays, it just seems that things got worst with Kaii recently, and she was there to help. Probably it has to do only with Hachikuji for the moment, however her ties with Kanbaru could be a useful plot device in Suruga DEVIL.

[Wigwams]

ohh. are there any other new characters worthy of mention? especially those who could join the harem.

[soniko]

12/27
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2ButfCXUmL.jpg

[Miyuki-ism]

That's an awesome front cover.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

ohh. are there any other new characters worthy of mention? especially those who could join the harem.

Spoiler:

There are other occultists around, but no harem material.

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by soniko

12/27
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2ButfCXUmL.jpg

12/24 sale! Christmas gift?!?!?

[omimon]

Well I just finished reading the whole thing and this is how I feel...

Spoiler:

The whole book is by all means Nisio's way of finishing Hanekawa's character development. The series as a whole is about characters learning from their mistakes and this time FINALLY Hanekawa seems to have gotten it straight. With this being said I fear for her character from this point on. As far as I can tell it's possible that the next book or even the next two books' timelines would run parallel with this book's. This meaning that Hanekawa's character wouldn't appear since she's dealing with her own stuff. Of course it's too early to say for sure but I can't but feel she's going to play a background character's role from now on.
As for where the series is heading off to is entirely undetermined right now. But of course we are left certain clues. We see the return of Episode the vampire hunter and of course the next book's title is Mayoi Jiangshi (chinese zombie vampire). Another interesting thing is that we are told Kanbaru's left arm's bandage is gone so that's why I said its possible that Suruga Devil might be running parallel too. Other then finishing Hanekawa's character, this book also serves as the second half of the series's prologue and the start of another ride. When Nise 2 finished Nisio said that he was going to write Neko and Kabuki but I honestly doubt he would have anticipated the development the books would have. Nise 2 was supposedly the series's finale but one could tell that things were missing, things left unexplained and things left undiscovered. The new additions certainly fills these holes and its possible that by Hitagi End every possible thing is answered and all of the character's problems are solved.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by omimon

Well I just finished reading the whole thing and this is how I feel...

Spoiler:

The whole book is by all means Nisio's way of finishing Hanekawa's character development. The series as a whole is about characters learning from their mistakes and this time FINALLY Hanekawa seems to have gotten it straight. With this being said I fear for her character from this point on. As far as I can tell it's possible that the next book or even the next two books' timelines would run parallel with this book's. This meaning that Hanekawa's character wouldn't appear since she's dealing with her own stuff. Of course it's too early to say for sure but I can't but feel she's going to play a background character's role from now on.
As for where the series is heading off to is entirely undetermined right now. But of course we are left certain clues. We see the return of Episode the vampire hunter and of course the next book's title is Mayoi Jiangshi (chinese zombie vampire). Another interesting thing is that we are told Kanbaru's left arm's bandage is gone so that's why I said its possible that Suruga Devil might be running parallel too. Other then finishing Hanekawa's character, this book also serves as the second half of the series's prologue and the start of another ride. When Nise 2 finished Nisio said that he was going to write Neko and Kabuki but I honestly doubt he would have anticipated the development the books would have. Nise 2 was supposedly the series's finale but one could tell that things were missing, things left unexplained and things left undiscovered. The new additions certainly fills these holes and its possible that by Hitagi End every possible thing is answered and all of the character's problems are solved.

Spoiler for shiro:

左腕の包帯をさておけば、阿良々木くんみたいにあちこち怪我をしている風もない
"Leaving aside her bandaged left arm, she doesn't look injured here and there like Araragi-kun"

The way I got it Kanbaru still has her bandage on, so I guess only Shiro and Kabuki are parallel, and probably Shiro will be the only case where the narrator is not Araragi.

That aside, Hanekawa is my favorite character, but I acknowledge she has had plenty of space recently, between Kizu, Kuro and Shiro. Anyway, background character is fine. Nadeko got it far worse so far Btw, I like how so many books there was still so much to explore about Hanekawa. I think now she just need to get along with her family, if she does, possibly she won't even need a world trip.

I think Nisio just said that with Nise the chara development of Araragi and Senjougahara was finished. Never heard anything about it being the series finale, which certainly isn't. What about Hanekawa's Golden Week? No, there was certainly material to go on. In fact, since he is a mystery writer first I think he has planned all major details. I even think that Nadeko being last boss may not be for Nisio only a joke. Nadeko has done little until now, which seems suspicious. On the other hand in the finale could also be about Koyomi's parents trying to arrest Kaiki.

Btw, I have a conjecture about Kabuki:

Spoiler:

We know Hachikuji left her backpack at Araragi's house, so probably Koyomi has seen the inside. I think inside there was Hachikuji's dead body (which acted like a receptacle that allows kami to physically manifest), who bited Koyomi turning him into a Chinese vampire. Though I don't know if jiang shi can increase their numbers by biting like Western vampires and zombies

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

Spoiler for shiro:

左腕の包帯をさておけば、阿良々木くんみたいにあちこち怪我をしている風もない
"Leaving aside her bandaged left arm, she doesn't look injured here and there like Araragi-kun"

The way I got it Kanbaru still has her bandage on, so I guess only Shiro and Kabuki are parallel, and probably Shiro will be the only case where the narrator is not Araragi.

That aside, Hanekawa is my favorite character, but I acknowledge she has had plenty of space recently, between Kizu, Kuro and Shiro. Anyway, background character is fine. Nadeko got it far worse so far Btw, I like how so many books there was still so much to explore about Hanekawa. I think now she just need to get along with her family, if she does, possibly she won't even need a world trip.

I think Nisio just said that with Nise the chara development of Araragi and Senjougahara was finished. Never heard anything about it being the series finale, which certainly isn't. What about Hanekawa's Golden Week? No, there was certainly material to go on. In fact, since he is a mystery writer first I think he has planned all major details. I even think that Nadeko being last boss may not be for Nisio only a joke. Nadeko has done little until now, which seems suspicious. On the other hand in the finale could also be about Koyomi's parents trying to arrest Kaiki.

Btw, I have a conjecture about Kabuki:

Spoiler:

We know Hachikuji left her backpack at Araragi's house, so probably Koyomi has seen the inside. I think inside there was Hachikuji's dead body (which acted like a receptacle that allows kami to physically manifest), who bited Koyomi turning him into a Chinese vampire. Though I don't know if jiang shi can increase their numbers by biting like Western vampires and zombies

Spoiler:

Yea, a major theory surrounding Hachikuji's backpack has always been about her dead body. Also you're right about Kanbaru's arm and her bandage is actually still on... I should really read more carefully. The reason why I said Nise 2 was the series finale because it was clear that Nisio at first wanted it to be the finale and that's why he called it Final Story: Tsukihi Phoenix. The first chapter even said something like "This marks the end of me and my friends story." Of course he changed his mind by the end of it but it was too late to change anything since the promos already listed it as Final Story. Then again like you said, Nisio is a man of mystery and he could be trolling all of us since the beginning.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by omimon

Spoiler:

Yea, a major theory surrounding Hachikuji's backpack has always been about her dead body. Also you're right about Kanbaru's arm and her bandage is actually still on... I should really read more carefully. The reason why I said Nise 2 was the series finale because it was clear that Nisio at first wanted it to be the finale and that's why he called it Final Story: Tsukihi Phoenix. The first chapter even said something like "This marks the end of me and my friends story." Of course he changed his mind by the end of it but it was too late to change anything since the promos already listed it as Final Story. Then again like you said, Nisio is a man of mystery and he could be trolling all of us since the beginning.

Spoiler:

I see. Now I think I understand why he said he did as he pleased with Nise.

I think Nisio originally planned with the publishers to end the series with the introduction of the last girl, but he personally wanted to continue because he felt he still have something to tell. For this reason, the number of open ended clues increased in Nise, leaving rooms for more stories (ie: Hachikuji and Nadeko). Obviously, he had to make Araragi state in Nise2 that that was the end because it was already announced as the final chapter, but the book isn't conclusive at all, except for the themes presented in Nise1. In fact, I think Nisio decided to continue Bakemonogatari before he started writing Nise.

Possibly this is a writing technique based on sales. He created a world with many details. If the books go well, he has room to expand, otherwise he will resolve the plotlines immediately. It's not like Nisio could predict Bakemonogatari would be a hit. Now that sales are assured he has plotted a big conclusive arc.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by omimon

Yea, what you said pretty much describes perfectly the whole love situation in the series. Although one can argue that he is closer to some of the other girls than Senjougahara. He loves Senjougahara but that doesn't mean he'll treat her any better than the other girls.

Until the series ends, plenty of non-Senjougahara shippers will hold some hope that Araragi would break up with her and get together with their favorite girl in the end.

Besides, even if it wasn't already official, plenty of people enjoy the dynamic Araragi has with the other girls. People do like Hanekawa and Shinobu, and they definitely don't treat Araragi the same way a male friend would. The ecchi flirting is just fun.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Until the series ends, plenty of non-Senjougahara shippers will hold some hope that Araragi would break up with her and get together with their favorite girl in the end.

That's basically expecting the author to trash the development that has been had so far, for the sake of having your whim catered, wouldn't it?

I honestly don't see why people would expect Nisio to do anything like that. That's not being delusional, but whimsical in my opinion.

Hanekawa had her chances to be with Araragi, but she simply didn't take them. It was her fault. Sure, her circumstances were rather complicated, but her chances were there. As for Shinobu, her situation and Araragi's was rather complicated. It's the sort of thing that simply could not be, regardless of the feelings of the parties involved. As for the other girls, I don't think any of them is close enough to Araragi to even begin to shake his relationship with Senjōgahara.

Anyway, on a different topic, once the Bakemonogatari series is over, I hope Nisio goes back to his Zaregoto style.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Until the series ends, plenty of non-Senjougahara shippers will hold some hope that Araragi would break up with her and get together with their favorite girl in the end.

Besides, even if it wasn't already official, plenty of people enjoy the dynamic Araragi has with the other girls. People do like Hanekawa and Shinobu, and they definitely don't treat Araragi the same way a male friend would. The ecchi flirting is just fun.

Personally it's not like I want them to break up or anything but rather since Araragi is still part Kaii you can never know what would happen if he stays with a normal human. I mean in Shiro Senjougahara was "this" close to being turned into steamed crabs. If Hanekawa or Araragi was any weaker or slower she would have been done for.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Used Can

That's basically expecting the author to trash the development that has been had so far, for the sake of having your whim catered, wouldn't it?

I honestly don't see why people would expect Nisio to do anything like that. That's not being delusional, but whimsical in my opinion.

Hanekawa had her chances to be with Araragi, but she simply didn't take them. It was her fault. Sure, her circumstances were rather complicated, but her chances were there. As for Shinobu, her situation and Araragi's was rather complicated. It's the sort of thing that simply could not be, regardless of the feelings of the parties involved. As for the other girls, I don't think any of them is close enough to Araragi to even begin to shake his relationship with Senjōgahara.

Anyway, on a different topic, once the Bakemonogatari series is over, I hope Nisio goes back to his Zaregoto style.

Like I said before, it doesn't necessarily have to be an official relationship. Some people can enjoy Araragi having fun with another girl even if he's with Senjougahara. I'm aware that those two are a pair, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy what happened between Araragi and Hanekawa in Kizu either.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Until the series ends, plenty of non-Senjougahara shippers will hold some hope that Araragi would break up with her and get together with their favorite girl in the end.

That's not how harem anime work

While Nisio's job as an otaku writer forces him to be up to date with the current trends, I think somehow his mentality has become outdated. Shipping wars seems to be a relative recent phenomenon. For example, I don't remember of a shipping war about Love Hina or Ranma. Now there's Final Fantasy VII, Naruto, Macross Frontier, Harry Potter, House M.D. and so on. The world has gone crazy. Nisio feels more like an old school otaku who watch every anime enthusiastically and is rather indiscriminate in his tastes. While he is conscious of his public, I think going the extra mile to screw AraSenjou would be too much even for him (as an author he has his own ways to screw the public).

Besides, even if it wasn't already official, plenty of people enjoy the dynamic Araragi has with the other girls. People do like Hanekawa and Shinobu, and they definitely don't treat Araragi the same way a male friend would. The ecchi flirting is just fun.

That was the point. Certainly Nisio didn't write Bakemonogatari thinking only of Senjougahara, otherwise he would have written only of Senjougahara. In fact, there is comparatively so little Senjougahara overall that means she is either difficult to write or is not Nisio's favorite character in the series Well, I have to say this because in the following novels there is bound to be little of Senjougahara and lot of Hanekawa and Shinobu, so not every fan will be happy

In fact, in the past I have read negative impressions about the subsequent books, so I became pessimistic about them, but when I read them I liked them. I repeat, for the average Bakemonogatari fan they are quite good. You'll like them (especially if you aren't bothered by character quotas).

Nisemonogatari 1 is good because there are lots of characters, and there is a serious atmosphere.

Nisemonogatari 2 is good because of its nonsensical symbolism. It finishes to develop the themes presented in Nise1.

Nekomonogatari Kuro is good because it's about a specific character. It's a very focused book with intense feelings. It's possibly the book I liked the most so far.

Nekomonogatari Shiro is good because of a new perspective. There is also a buildup for the following book.

Shadow5YA, I think I understand what you are saying, and I agree with it, but you talk like it is natural to follow the story only because of Senjougahara, and one should even try to be tolerant and enjoy the other girls. Maybe you had some bad experience in other forums. What it's natural is thinking of getting the most enjoyment you can out of Bakemonogatari, while you should avoid monomania that will cause only troubles to yourself and others.

I must also add that liking a character shouldn't necessarily mean you want them to get together with the main character

[Wigwams]

btw i remember someone saying koyomi's parents are

Spoiler for :

police officers, and that it explained alot of things... so what exactly is significant about them being police officers in the plot?