Nisemonogatari - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

This is a shallow argument. There is a lot of things you can see everyday in anime. Love stories. Monsters. Mecha. Aliens. And fanservice. Even if something has been done to death though, that doesn't mean you can't still try to do it better. Nisio and Shaft waltzed in and did it LIKE A BOSS.

-- Triple_r's argument is Shallow
-- You refute it by saying they did it LIKE A BOSS
-- So what's the argument here that makes yours deeper, lol. That's just making your own assertion and claiming his is wrong. You have 2 different opinions. And so...?

Point out that Nise's style is far different from different anime and that these cliches were handled in a different manner. Point out that the situation is being oversimplified.

But I'm not gonna debate for you so do it.

Dialogues of which you have only heard the abridged version
Nisio throws in random factoids here an there, but the toothbrush scene, most likely, comes from his own personal imagination.

Abridged version? Are you implying that he's only seen abridged parodies? Sorry, I can confirm someone's seen the anime. If you're saying the anime version is the abridged version of the novel, then sure we'll wait for it to unfold. I don't anyone said anything about it being dropped.

Then again, your personal experience couldn't mean anything. For example, there are women who orgasm during birth. All women should be able to do it, but the majority of them associates motherhood with responsibility, so they are unconsciously on guard against pleasure.

Yea I guess it's possible that people can orgasm to anything. I'm not a woman so I can't say.

This forum is specifically targeted at people who appreciate the anime discussed in here. There is no explicit rule that says it must be so, but mostly is aficionados who gravitate here. Animesuki's strong point is exactly the specialization of all its forums. It's different from a general anime forum (or 4chan, for example).

(I am not talking like I am some kind of representative of animesuki, I am just reading the atmosphere.)

Then you come here and pull out an opinion which is contrastive with the one of the majority, using a civil tone and a dignified attitude (but ultimately this doesn't matter. You can start by saying "This anime is terrible" or throwing out random negative buzzwords like "fanservice" and "otaku pandering" and the result will be exactly the same).

What the other people here think is "This guy looks so unhappy. Maybe if we teach him how to enjoy this anime he will be fun to have around". (See? They care for you in their own way)

At this point though you start complaining that the other people can't accept that your tastes may not be the same. You don't realize your own faults.

In fact, you are a bit like Karen when facing Kaiki. Karen thought that if she blamed Kaiki he would have had to give in. She didn't conceive evil as obstinate. Similarly, you don't think people are opinionated, and that in end you arguments may be not much more than sophisms.

I repeat. Isn't it better to be able to enjoy many things? If there is a problem in your viewpoint that doesn't let you enjoy Nise, then why don't you change your viewpoint? Well, obviously it is impossible to change opinions that much, but maybe there are preconceptions that could be fixed.

Uh, subforums were made to reduce clutter and create a better sense of organization. While it is self-evident that fans are going to be interested in it. However, because discussion is confined here, everyone that watches this will come here and not everyone is going to be fawning over it. There's people that appreciate the series but not all of it you know. Regardless if someone likes it or not, they have to come here if they want to discuss.

Pro Tip: Internet psychiatry is not an occupation. Do you just realize you spent half of that asserting you and (a majority-- of this subforum) is right. It's nice that you think that there must be something wrong with people that disagree with you. Perhaps you really need to stop dismissing other people so easily, thinking of that, then maybe the other side will listen more.

Why exactly does he have to change his viewpoint and you don't possibly consider you need to change yours? Or perhaps that nobody can agree to disagree.

You can both be right. Or both be wrong.

I also can't believe you said using a civil tone does not matter. Well, I'll tell you this. It does.

Edit: On a lighter note, there's a reason Tomino would diss his own shows. And that was because he's pretty infamous as one of the most bipolar anime directors of all time.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by papermario13689

Sure, I understand that. However, do you remember how Bakemonogatari went? Koyomi has perverted thoughts because he's a young adult- it's natural. However, it's established that he hangs around girls too much because he's kind to everyone. In the end though, he's devoted to Senjougahara, his girlfriend. Even at the brink of death he thinks of her and refuses to go to another. But all of a sudden, Hanekawa has the best figure to him and his sister looks hot to him. Senjou-who-now?

All I need to say is, THEY. BETTER. NOT. FORGET. ABOUT. SENJOUGAHARA. IN. THE. END.

Just because he's Senjougahara's boyfriend, just because he's devoted to her, just because he loves her, he has to think she's the sexiest girl in the world? That's a very strange thought. I think most people would agree, for example, that famous actors and actresses are sexier than their boyfriends and girlfriends. That doesn't make their love "false". It doesn't change anything. It's just a fact that not everyone can be the sexiest person in the world, not even to a single person.

Honestly, when you look at it from this perspective, I feel like this adds "depth" to this episode. Araragi still thinks of Hanekawa as the ideal woman. But he also doesn't think of her as love interest material (as he's said many times). There's a story there. There's conflict there. That's a bit of characterization that changes the way all of Araragi's actions up to now could be interpreted.

Adding Karen to the list is just a hallucination brought on by the circumstances. Or so he says. I don't see much reason to doubt him though. Presumably Senjougahara would be temporarily added to the list if he brushed her teeth and she reacted like that.

[DragoZERO]

I want to know if any other episode thread has had so many 10's before. 75% is staggering.

Oh, I watched it again. Everything turned pink once he put the toothbrush in her mouth. Shaft, you so sneaky.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

And I will throw a question back at you; how many people giving this episode 10/10, as a percentage, is acceptable to you?

If you feel anime is doomed because 90% of people on this thread gave it 10/10, then what percentage is acceptable in your view?

60%? 40%? 0%?

What is the amount of people needed to dislike this episode, in order for you to feel better?

I would just like you to quantify the exact amount of people you deemed socially correct in having different taste from you.

After all, if 90% of people disagreeing with you is "too much", then how much is "not too much"? I like to see your tolerance level.

I think people are not understanding where Triple and papermario are coming from.

Is it so wrong to express dismay when an episode that they found very mediocre or bad is overwhelmingly praised in front of them?

We're all anime fans here, and Monogatari is a top seller in the industry, so naturally we should be interested in what is "hot" in the industry and see if its a direction you like to see it in. It's reasonable to fear that if your tastes are apparently diverging from a good amount of people that the industry could possibly be leaving you behind taste and preference wise.

Personally all this episode illustrated to me that perhaps I appreciate different aspects of Monogatari more than a lot of you.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I think people are not understanding where Triple and papermario are coming from.

Is it so wrong to express dismay when an episode that they found very mediocre or bad is overwhelmingly praised in front of them?

We're all anime fans here, and Monogatari is a top seller in the industry, so naturally we should be interested in what is "hot" in the industry and see if its a direction you like to see it in. It's reasonable to fear that if your tastes are apparently diverging from a good amount of people that the industry could possibly be leaving you behind taste and preference wise.

Personally all this episode illustrated to me that perhaps I appreciate different aspects of Monogatari more than a lot of you.

Actually, yes. It is wrong to express dismay that other people have different tastes from you. Even worse, if you FEAR that your taste is diverging from other people, then frankly I question if you really care about liking what you like.

The simple fact is, the way this website is set up concentrates people of similar tastes into specific forums. And the longer a franchise has been around the more concentrated the fanbase. The fact that 80+% of people gave this episode a 10/10 is not strange; because you had to have liked the show to even be voting.

If you somehow forced everyone in this entire website to all watch this episode, whether they liked Nise or not, and ask them to vote, there would be far less full marks as a ratio.

To add to that, this episode was canon written by the author. If you don't WANT what this episode contained, then you are not diverging your taste from the industry; you are diverging your taste from the AUTHOR.

What does that mean? That means if you don't like what the author offers, the only way for you to get what you want is to edit, censor, and otherwise butcher the author's work. Because when the author's taste diverges from your own, your only choice is to kill your link to the series entirely. To reject the author is to reject the entire series. And I am not exaggerating.

[PM portion removed! You may not share such messages addressed only to you via Private Messaging without actually getting permission from the other user. To do so otherwise is poor in taste!]

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree. People can respond positively or negatively to senseless violence, for example, but that doesn't make the violence any less senseless (i.e. give it meaning).

That's a ridiculous to statement to make. There is a reason the term "silver lining" exists, and for good reason. People find meaning senseless violence, because it brings attention and awareness to why they occur. It's the fundamental reason why the saying "history repeats itself" exists, because people who cannot find relevance or learn from it are doomed to repeat it. Just because it is senseless doesn't automatically assume people cannot derive meaning from it.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, really. It's not much of a toothbrush fetish if all it's going to be used for is cleaning the teeth and mouth. This episode really was quite silly, and not even believable, imo. It reminds me of a lot of some other cases of SHAFT being SHAFT silliness that you'll see sometimes. I like SHAFT, but there's no question that Shinbo sometimes takes it over the line into total silliness.

Welcome to anime? Since when did anime or SHAFT have been known for their believability? The term "SHAFT being SHAFT" should provides some clues that their wacky and zany art direction is there to "enhance" the visual experience, even if at times it goes beyond being excessive.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If you're going to start a new fetish, the way it's executed should at least be half-way plausible, imo, and it wasn't here.

I think you should really reconsider what you are saying here. There's a reason why fetishes are considered a deviant behavior.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Some critics could easily say that they would like people to not narrow themselves so much by focusing on one particular scene and then give the episode the highest score possible because of it and it alone.

The way a lot of the 10/10 folks have talked on this thread, this scene is the reason why they gave 10/10. So if one scene alone can warrant the highest score possible, then why shouldn't one scene alone warrant the lowest score possible?

If you're going to criticize 1/10 voters for this shouldn't you also criticize 10/10 voters who made that vote due to one scene?

Except there are people who also praise other things besides the toothbrush scene. I personally enjoyed OP, the bone shattering tackle attack, the perfect landing sequence, Tsukihi's interruption, and the extra inning ending. Some non-scene related praise was the BGM that was playing during the toothbrush scene and the quality of the animation, despite SHAFT being notorious about quality control later in the series. There are a lot of things to commend SHAFT for this episode that made so many people give it a 10/10.

On the other hand, it does not pan out as well by saying "I do not like the toothbrush scene, therefore the episode gets a 1/10".

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree. If a scene ruins an episode for you then it ruined the episode for you. It's not narrow, especially when you consider that what came at the end of an episode can shape your understanding of what came before it.

And I am saying that is bad criticism. It is shallow when people attribute the entire episode as being solely defined by one scene and then judge it.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't think so. There's no arrogance in simply being honest about how much a particular scene affected you personally and your enjoyment of an episode.

Really, I draw the line when such so much rhetoric is used to justify their dislikes and likes about the episode. It's similar to how racists justify their beliefs and, by your example, are honest about their personal feelings about a certain race or ethnicity. At the end of the day it is still arrogance.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree. I do not consider this to be original at all. What determines originality is the idea or premise behind something, not the mere vehicle used to achieve it, imo.

That's a rather narrow definition. Have you heard of "The Medium is the Message?"

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I very much doubt it'll leave a long lasting impression on me, so I disagree with you here.

Well I wasn't specifically directing at you. But more about everyone who watched this episode. I think the scene has arrested our attention similar to that of a train wreck. For better or worse it leaves a lasting impression.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Didn't you just say that people shouldn't judge an entire episode by a lone scene? That strikes me as being a bit inconsistent with cataloging an entire episode by reference to one lone scene within it.

Yes, but I'm not making any judgements about the entire episode on it, so it's fine.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Given how far the originality vs. unoriginality argument has gone, I just searched for "toothbrush as a sex toy" on Google. I'd link to some of what I brought up, but I'm not sure it would be appropriate given AS rules. So I'd just encourage other people curious about it to try it themselves.

If you could find an non-adult anime that did it, I'd give you a cookie. Context is key, but good to know rule 34 still is alive and kicking.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Actually, yes. It is wrong to express dismay that other people have different tastes from you. Even worse, if you FEAR that your taste is diverging from other people, then frankly I question if you really care about liking what you like.

The simple fact is, the way this website is set up concentrates people of similar tastes into specific forums. And the longer a franchise has been around the more concentrated the fanbase. The fact that 80+% of people gave this episode a 10/10 is not strange; because you had to have liked the show to even be voting.

If you somehow forced everyone in this entire website to all watch this episode, whether they liked Nise or not, and ask them to vote, there would be far less full marks as a ratio.

To add to that, this episode was canon written by the author. If you don't WANT what this episode contained, then you are not diverging your taste from the industry; you are diverging your taste from the AUTHOR.

What does that mean? That means if you don't like what the author offers, the only way for you to get what you want is to edit, censor, and otherwise butcher the author's work. Because when the author's taste diverges from your own, your only choice is to kill your link to the series entirely. To reject the author is to reject the entire series. And I am not exaggerating.

What I'm looking at are sales numbers. I could care less about whether or not AS concentrates members into specific subforums and that there are tons of other anime fans out there who aren't here who don't like it. As a top selling series, which just got a spike in sells after this episode mind you, then obviously the anime fanbase in large is responding to this in a positive way. What sells is what gets made, it's simple logic.

And again, sure I might not like what the author churns out, but do you understand how trends get set? How things get produced? If something becomes popular people copy that and try to produce more titles with things like that. It's just the way it goes.

[NeoChan]

I never seen a imouto disperately requesting her elder brother to...

Spoiler:

deflower her?!! Hehehe, Karen Chan ecchi ...

[Sol Falling]

...Hm. It's fine and all that the debate seems to be continuing but I feel like the present posts might be getting a bit too heated. Triple_R and papermario13689 have both already stated they intend to respect other views of the episode such that I don't think they're attempting to push their views onto anybody. Though there might well still be disagreements worth having a discussion over, it might be reasonable now to do it in a more friendly manner.

edit:

Originally Posted by Reckoner

What I'm looking at are sales numbers. I could care less about whether or not AS concentrates members into specific subforums and that there are tons of other anime fans out there who aren't here who don't like it. As a top selling series, which just got a spike in sells after this episode mind you, then obviously the anime fanbase in large is responding to this in a positive way. What sells is what gets made, it's simple logic.

And again, sure I might not like what the author churns out, but do you understand how trends get set? How things get produced? If something becomes popular people copy that and try to produce more titles with things like that. It's just the way it goes.

On the sales of Nisemonogatari. Actually, if sales are starting to spike after this, I'd see it as a very good thing, because this is an adaptation of a well-established series and consistently good sales mean we're more likely to get a full adaptation. The content of future *monogatari seasons has already been predetermined--whether or not you like Nise, if you are a fan of the *monogatari series in general, what we need to be hoping for is that it keeps up its sales momentum.

Even with this episode, I don't currently expect Nisemonogatari to break Bake's sales totals. That'd be a problem in my mind, seeing as how I view Kizumonogatari and Bakemonogatari as prequels (for Shinobu and Hitagi, respectively) and Nise as the actual overall start to the story. Aside from this episode, the success of this season depends on I think the reception to episode 4, our major introduction to Shinobu, as well as hopefully a solid introduction in the next episodes to post-"character development" Senjougahara. In any case, I definitely think that any sales gained from this episode serve the greater good of getting the rest of this series adapted.

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I could care less about whether or not AS concentrates members into specific subforums and that there are tons of other anime fans out there who aren't here who don't like it.

Yeah, I think Sol is correct when we need to calm down a bit.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

And again, sure I might not like what the author churns out, but do you understand how trends get set? How things get produced? If something becomes popular people copy that and try to produce more titles with things like that. It's just the way it goes.

Not many studios do what SHAFT or Nishio does best. And as it has been reiterated many times, Nishio wrote Nise as mostly personal story for his own enjoyment. It was never written for others, therefor never meant to be popular in the first place.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by papermario13689

...All I wish to see is a better show of creativity and some evidence that producers are making new shows to drive new plotlines, not open new bank accounts.

Hopefully I didn't rant too ridiculously- this episode seriously left me stunned at the future of media. All I know is, I'm going to be spending the Spring season rewatching some older favourites to fill the void.

Seriously, I thought this episode was full of creativity. Maybe it didn't happen to be along lines you enjoy, but it sure seemed creative to me. "Plotlines" are not the only thing that can make an anime (or any kind of fiction) great, it seems to me.

But your rant was not ridiculous in the least, whether I agreed with it or not. You make lots of interesting and even valid points. I'd just suggest that you not give up hope, since I have seen so often that people are scathing about an upcoming season, and then some of the shows they expected to be duds turn out to be good, and some of those they never even considered at all turn out to be great.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Regardless, I'm curious as to what you think of my idea that the scene would have been more effective if Koyomi's monologue had ended with "Kanbaru-sensei's fetishtic ideas will lead to your defeat".

It's an interesting notion, but I think it would have been too simple, and too purely erotic. The counterpoint of the monologue gave it texture. And we also heard Koyomi gradually realize he had tricked himself into feeling things about his sister that he didn't consciously want to. I found that pretty strong, especially since it could kind of apply to a lot of us watching.

But it is striking that Kamiya Hiroshi (and no-one else) gets a credit in the opening credits. I can't remember ever seeing a seiyuu get a credit anywhere other than in the end credits. So it's clear that Shinbou thinks of him as far and away the star of the show, and may have him speak more than absolutely necessary. Or else that Kamiyan's agency drives a hard bargain, lol.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Seriously, I thought this episode was full of creativity. Maybe it didn't happen to be along lines you enjoy, but it sure seemed creative to me. "Plotlines" are not the only thing that can make an anime (or any kind of fiction) great, it seems to me.

Well yeah, the fact of the matter is that we all come from different perspectives; we're looking at the same object from different points of view. Even ostensibly looking at the same thing, what we see (and thus get out of it) differs. Really, most of this thread has been about differences in values even moreso than opinion, and that's why it got a bit heated. Differences in values (like the elements people find critical to be personally entertained) are even harder to overcome in a discussion; in the end, it just requires abundant patience and understanding. It was very interesting to me that some people looked at the episode and saw brilliance and creativity, while others saw pandering and creative bankruptcy. I can't really say that either is wrong, but they're really looking at the episode in entirely different ways. This is really a case of "one person's trash is another's treasure", perhaps even more literally than usual.

TL;DR…

Analogy

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

2) That being said, I have to admit I have some mild concerns similar to the ones expressed by papermario13689. When I see the reaction that this episode has received, it honestly makes me wonder if all many people want from anime is pure fanservice/eroticism. I like moe, I like some fanservice, and I definitely think that both have a place within anime. But I certainly don't want anime to become all-fanservice all-the-time because that would leave out the majority of what I love about anime.

I really don't think you can call this ep "all fanservice". It's the same kind of humor as when Karen spouted cool lines while in a ridiculous pose, but turned up to 11. All the trappings of an ero scene... but for something that clearly isn't. Or shouldn't be.

[Hiroi Sekai]

Yeah, I definitely agree. Like I said, I hope I didn't offend anyone with my incessant ramblings. I wasn't attempting to coax people into seeing things my way, but I do feel I have the right to mention how I felt about the whole thing.

Anyways, if I ended up bothering anyone I do apologize. I'm fine with everyone's viewpoints, but I feel debate with conflicting points can be beneficial if...like relentlessflame said, both parties can accept the other's claims and take the steps to meet closer in the middle.

Ergo, I conclude that I DO see the productive values and direction taken with this episode, but from my standing, I kind of felt uncomfortable with the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Seriously, I thought this episode was full of creativity. Maybe it didn't happen to be along lines you enjoy, but it sure seemed creative to me. "Plotlines" are not the only thing that can make an anime (or any kind of fiction) great, it seems to me.

But your rant was not ridiculous in the least, whether I agreed with it or not. You make lots of interesting and even valid points. I'd just suggest that you not give up hope, since I have seen so often that people are scathing about an upcoming season, and then some of the shows they expected to be duds turn out to be good, and some of those they never even considered at all turn out to be great.

Mhm, that's fine with me. I do have a ton of series that I just enjoy for its own merits. Nichijou doesn't really have a plot, but I really liked it as well, just as an example.

Thanks for the assurance, I was going to check out a number of series in the upcoming season anyways, but I do genuinely hope that I find a lot of little gems, because I AM still stuck with some sort of a nagging feeling at this point. It's not even because of this episode, really.

[sergel02]

I never watched the anime or know anything about it, and got lead here by a random link, but i may check it out now lol

[Marcus H.]

WOw, dat amount of posts (three times that of Episode 7's discussion) and dat amount of 10's.
I haven't watched Episode 6-8.


D:

[Pocari_Sweat]

I'm pretty much about to give up as some people -still- don't appreciate where the dissenter's are coming from, but I'll give this a last chance. Let me give a comparison to illustrate an example. Let's compare Nisemonogatari to another ridiculous over-the-top fanservice shows that's airing right this season - Aquarion EVOL.

Aquarion EVOL has just as ridiculous and over-the-top fanservice if not more than Nisemonogatari. But here's the difference between Nise ep 8 and Nise's "tamer/less eccentric" eps and Aquarion. The people who gave this ep a 10/10 or close to it, it come's down to mainly one thing - the fact that this kind of fan-service has never been done before and was followed by many pages of "HNNNNNG!" and "OMG!" comments.

Well Aquarion had "crazy" fan-service scenes like that too. I won't spoil it, but I'll place some buzzwords to which people who are following this series will get immediately: "Berlin Wall", "union", "stripping for powah". But wait, Aquarion has something else of value, and is actually the most prominent feature of the series alongside the mecha fights themselves - shipping. Aquarion EVOL is one massive shipping war fest and out of the 2.1k posts on that thread, at least half of them is shipping talk, with the other half split between trying to guess who is a reincarnated person of what, how flashy the mecha fights themselves and the fanservice itself. Fanservice is not dominating the discussion in a already heavy fanservice series. Nise ep 8? Pretty much the entire episode is dedicated to some toothbrush scene. And guess what, something as ridiculous as that is just a element of a Aquarion EVOL. Plus, what's more interesting? Pages after pages of "HNNNNG!" or debating which girl Amata is going to end up with or which character he is a reincarnation of? You be the judge.

This is the precise problem with Nisemonogatari ep 8 compared to some of its former eps. This one toothbrush scene everyone is making a fuss out of simply dominated the whole episode AND the discussion (and not in a good way). It also did not develop plot nor character. I'm getting sick of all the people complaining to the dissenters that Nisemonogatari isn't plot based because they forget to read the second part too (i.e. didn't develop character apart from the small point that Karen wants to meet Kanbaru. And no the fact Karen is horny for her brother is not character development. Horray for more incest ). An episode needs to either move the plot or develop character and this episode did nothing but pander about a certain fetish for an entire episode. At least some of Nise's other eps developed character and Aquarion is just developing this shipping war in an "intentional troll" manner.

Also regarding "best ep of the year arguments"? Am I claiming certain Aquarion EVOL eps the "best anime eps of the year" because not only does it similar over-the-top fanservice but other elements as well as mentioned above? Hell no. Seriously, is Nise ep 8 really the "best anime ep of the year" when its only February and a glorified fanservice scene? Is Nise ep 8 really on the same sorta "best ep of the year" material as last year's Madoka ep 3 or 5, Steins Gate penultimate ep, Hanasaku Iroha debut ep or Anohana episode 8? No way in hell it does.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

I'And no the fact Karen is horny for her brother is not character development.

To be honest though, I think it does...

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Haak

To be honest though, I think it does...

Definitely is, I'm sure this isn't a one time thing.

[Nihokon]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

It also did not develop plot nor character

Okay, the whole toothbrushing thing indeed did not develop any of the characters or even the plot. But it did show how their characters, especially Karen, are developed so far.

Everyone is so butthurt because they expect plot but they're given fanservice.
Personally I don't mind this episode at all. It's not like they're pulling a subpar level fanservice. The main attraction point of Nise to me, the dialogue between characters, are still there and they managed to slip in a major troll of a fanservice smoothly. Yes, I find this episode to be very creative.
Well, to each his own, I guess.