Aldnoah.Zero - Anime Spoilers & Speculation

[Arya]

So the predominant expectation is that Seylum will die. I don't know. I don't have that kind of vibe yet. If not at the very end. Surely the debate reminds me of Shoko and how people were expecting her to die ... but nope. And both "died" in the first episode.
And in both cases what needed to happen happened and what not, didn't. So I don't see what would change later on having her dying, unless further developments. But Slaine didn't snap and I don't see Inaho, if ever the show will go there, doing it. And plot wise also wouldn't be so relevant, considering even how she is still dead for everyone.
On the other hand if there was something to learn from VVV is that it would have been better if Shoko had died. So, maybe? <- (This last one is a very personal consideration. )

on a side note I read how Asseylum would not be fitted to rule Mars empire and that could be true. On the contrary I'd see Slaine doing it. After he showed his true colors, so to speak, this episode. But there's still around Asseylum's father that I don't think he is really dead. If their genes are so important I guess that he is alive and is behind the Knights or he got stuck into Dr. Troyard experiments. In either cases one thing is sure, he will wear a mask

About Asseylum holding a gun, I also think it's symbolic and probably more generic than what we think, saying just that she will take action. The backgrounds seems the same in which she was lying down few frames earlier; so she was lying down looking at the sky and then, at the end, stood up ready to fight. But in a generic way, she already fired grenades and grounded Inaho, so, in a way, she did more that any other character in her position.

[Thess]

Uhh...I don't see Slaine as a leader. He doesn't have the charisma for a leader. Asseylum has, despite being a little airhead on the side.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Thess

Uhh...I don't see Slaine as a leader. He doesn't have the charisma for a leader. Asseylum has, despite being a little airhead on the side.

Agreed. However, I could see Slaine being a sort of "the brains of the operation" who makes the actual tough decisions and gets things done while Asseylum takes a more figurehead and motivational role.

Remember the discussions we used to have about how Shouko and L-Elf (or Shouko and Satomi) could share power, filling different aspects of an "executive leader" role? I could see a similar thing with Asseylum and Slaine.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Agreed. However, I could see Slaine being a sort of "the brains of the operation" who makes the actual tough decisions and gets things done while Asseylum takes a more figurehead and motivational role.

Remember the discussions we used to have about how Shouko and L-Elf (or Shouko and Satomi) could share power, filling different aspects of an "executive leader" role? I could see a similar thing with Asseylum and Slaine.

L-Elf and Shoko are more complicated. One because L-Elf is actually a military leader who inspires, motivates or just commands respect. Haruto naturally followed him too, you know. Shoko is more crowd-pleaser and suitable as spokesperson, but L-Elf wasn't deprived of charisma, his issues are more communicational ones based on his experience and strict expectations. He can act and perform if he cares.

Spoiler for Valvrave spoilers and supplemental material spoilers:

He is a changed man by the end of Valvrave and so is Shoko. Shoko is delegating her Prime Minister role more and more depending the point of time you take (iirc, by Undertaker last chapter, L-Elf is the leader of the Module, Shoko's Hito pilot).

I don't see Slaine as Satomi or L-Elf. But he's so far moved on his own to actually judge him for any merit and he's too used to obey others. I guess, he could grow into that direction. Inaho has more experience as 'leader' (of his small group at least) than he does.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Thess

L-Elf and Shoko are more complicated. One because L-Elf is actually a military leader who inspires, motivates or just commands respect. Haruto naturally followed him too, you know. Shoko is more crowd-pleaser and suitable as spokesperson, but L-Elf wasn't deprived of charisma, his issues are more communicational ones based on his experience and strict expectations. He can act and perform if he cares.

Spoiler for Valvrave spoilers and supplemental material spoilers:

He is a changed man by the end of Valvrave and so is Shoko. Shoko is delegating her Prime Minister role more and more depending the point of time you take (iirc, by Undertaker last chapter, L-Elf is the leader of the Module, Shoko's Hito pilot).

I don't see Slaine as Satomi or L-Elf. But he's so far moved on his own to actually judge him for any merit and he's too used to obey others. I guess, he could grow into that direction. Inaho has more experience as 'leader' (of his small group at least) than he does.

actually your comparison make me realized that Inaho is actually L-elf and Haruto child, with both the best from each others, emotional control and sometimes caring.... Slain chance seem even bleaker.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Thess

Uhh...I don't see Slaine as a leader. He doesn't have the charisma for a leader. Asseylum has, despite being a little airhead on the side.

Well, obviously Asseylum should be the one entitled from each point of view, probably her commoner experience will make her grow; I was following even the speculation of her death in that part of the post.

But in any case as of now she lacks those qualities (well for the little we saw about her). Instead Slaine seems to be more apt to the role. Considering how he escaped from the castle he seems to have more charisma and strength than his previous position of a subdued let us foresee. And apparently he has the sensibility and the skills to know what, when and especially how say things (so even truths). As we apprehended also in this episode. Skill that should be useful to rule even as an emperor. I mean, it's THE skill that does or breaks a politician career.
On the other front both Inaho and Seylum seems to be more direct and prone to go straight to the point, so to speak. They seems more similar. We saw how Inaho didn't take into account Seylum's knowledge this episode and she didn't consider her circumstances when she grounded him, nor when she decided to reveal herself (but Rayet stopped her).
That obviously if Slaine will be revealed to have some relations with the current emperor lineage. In any other cases I don't see him being accepted by the Martians as a ruler.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

actually your comparison make me realized that Inaho is actually L-elf and Haruto child, with both the best from each others, emotional control and sometimes caring.... Slain chance seem even bleaker.

...Not really? How can you think someone who lacks actual power, physical fit training and multiple array of intelligences be the 'best of both worlds'?

Spoiler for Valvrave out of topic.:

Inaho doesn't have a real personality yet to qualify as their 'child'. He's just an introvert nerd with below average reflexes who can't beat a girl in a fight and only has fortune of facing stupid adversaries with a lot of help. But he is the 'leader' of a really average teenage band. L-Elf was the best of the "Perfection Army", a shining pearl of Dorssia military forces.

L-Elf was a super soldier trained since young age who can battle an entire army of 5000 strong solo when he was younger than Inaho, meanwhile Haruto was a super experiment vampire thing with a super powerful robot who did not stay dead when he was killed in the beginning. Haruto and L-Elf were both pretty emotional. L-Elf snapped when his buttons were pushed early on, he was smug and arrogant. He could also read people perfectly while Inaho is incapable of: he was a jerk on purpose, because he was sour; Inaho is oblivious. Haruto was just as passionate, that's why he could understand L-Elf's drive under L-Elf's pretense. L-Elf's difference with Haruto is that he was world-weary and bitter. While Haruto was more idealistic. Inaho is just a expressionless drone and a one-trick pony. What he'll do without sea water? That'll be a real challenge, if he's dropped in the middle of a desert.

Also, L-Elf looks down the idea of revenge. Inaho in his "emotional" moment (if you call it characterization) wanted revenge. Sure he 'controls' his emotions, but for no reason at all. L-Elf is more repressed than in control, because of his overwhelming bitterness. The characters could not be more different. L-Elf was also demanding and far more leader-like, he would have either controlled that ship straightforwardly or would have manipulated them all from the shadows. Inaho lacks his ambition and drive.

Slaine is more similar to Loran of Turn A Gundam with a bit wee of Suzaku of Geass. Although we have not seen any "super soldier" bits of Suzaku or his self-destructiveness.

@Arya: Don't get me wrong, I think Inaho and Asseylum are both terribly written characters so far, however we don't know how Slaine will act as a leader because he's not there yet (if ever). He has not interacted with people who aren't hostile with him or had confidence in the past. He has room to grow, but we don't know in what direction. For all you know, he could become a super soldier or researcher (didn't he fix his plane very quickly?). His intuition is sharp.

I agree that Inaho's 'leadership' is merely technical and he isn't good with people while Asseylum is... just dreary but she has charisma and "presence" as badly-characterized it can be. They can grow... if the authors start writing them properly.

[Arya]

^Well, he fixed his plane as quickly as he performed his escape. in fact he did quite good at everything he was up to. Being outsmarted doesn't really matter, all considered.
If anything what he lacks seems to be a bit of self-confidence. But the way he organized his own escape, taking the time to collect, forcibly, the info he needed, and how he executed it made him closer to L-Elf than before. In any case by far the more apt among them so far. (and no, he fixed his plane quickly, but I can't see him becoming Calm's chief ).

Surely the show so far has developed only Slaine, so it's hard to say something about the other two. From my point of view Inaho is not bad written, it's just unwritten. They are still sticking with this his unique trait, his deadpan face and deduction skills. Asseylum instead got some bits of development and on that I agree that it felt not very well written. But I like her quite a bit, as Seylum, so I can be very indulgent
After Slaine the one most developed seems to be Marito, but far far away, even thanks to his archetype that basically can go on auto-pilot, and then Darzana. Yuki, being Inaho's sister I think is suffering from that, since they apparently want to leave Inaho a big question mark, she can't be explored too much also.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Thess

...Not really? How can you think someone who lacks actual power, physical fit training and multiple array of intelligences be the 'best of both worlds'?

Spoiler for Valvrave out of topic.:

Inaho doesn't have a real personality yet to qualify as their 'child'. He's just an introvert nerd with below average reflexes who can't beat a girl in a fight and only has fortune of facing stupid adversaries with a lot of help. But he is the 'leader' of a really average teenage band. L-Elf was the best of the "Perfection Army", a shining pearl of Dorssia military forces.

L-Elf was a super soldier trained since young age who can battle an entire army of 5000 strong solo when he was younger than Inaho, meanwhile Haruto was a super experiment vampire thing with a super powerful robot who did not stay dead when he was killed in the beginning. Haruto and L-Elf were both pretty emotional. L-Elf snapped when his buttons were pushed early on, he was smug and arrogant. He could also read people perfectly while Inaho is incapable of: he was a jerk on purpose, because he was sour; Inaho is oblivious. Haruto was just as passionate, that's why he could understand L-Elf's drive under L-Elf's pretense. L-Elf's difference with Haruto is that he was world-weary and bitter. While Haruto was more idealistic. Inaho is just a expressionless drone and a one-trick pony. What he'll do without sea water? That'll be a real challenge, if he's dropped in the middle of a desert.

Also, L-Elf looks down the idea of revenge. Inaho in his "emotional" moment (if you call it characterization) wanted revenge. Sure he 'controls' his emotions, but for no reason at all. L-Elf is more repressed than in control, because of his overwhelming bitterness. The characters could not be more different. L-Elf was also demanding and far more leader-like, he would have either controlled that ship straightforwardly or would have manipulated them all from the shadows. Inaho lacks his ambition and drive.

Slaine is more similar to Loran of Turn A Gundam with a bit wee of Suzaku of Geass. Although we have not seen any "super soldier" bits of Suzaku or his self-destructiveness.

@Arya: Don't get me wrong, I think Inaho and Asseylum are both terribly written characters so far, however we don't know how Slaine will act as a leader because he's not there yet (if ever). He has not interacted with people who aren't hostile with him or had confidence in the past. He has room to grow, but we don't know in what direction. For all you know, he could become a super soldier or researcher (didn't he fix his plane very quickly?). His intuition is sharp.

I agree that Inaho's 'leadership' is merely technical and he isn't good with people while Asseylum is... just dreary but she has charisma and "presence" as badly-characterized it can be. They can grow... if the authors start writing them properly.

I'm talking more about their mental characteristic, Inaho is capable of planning as well as personally going through with it, and he shown to at least care to some people around him.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by Arya

^Well, he fixed his plane as quickly as he performed his escape.

I want to ask how it was damaged during his escape, I don't think handguns could hurt it that much... And if it's the one he was in when it got hit by a missile in the earlier episodes, I would imagine either someone else fixed it, or he stole one that wasn't damaged (I would think there's more than one)

[Thess]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

I'm talking more about their mental characteristic, Inaho is capable of planning as well as personally going through with it, and he shown to at least care to some people around him.

One thing is being capable of planning taking only into account the function of the robots (which is what Inaho does: he applies very basic science because the human factor is a non-brainer in this show). Another is to cook an entire scenario, step by step, including the bloody time by 'calculations' of human, environment, machine, etc factors as L-Elf has done that involves on one hand nearly zero casualties (unless Cain was involved somewhat) and multiple enemies at the same time. Haruto's trait isn't being caring (everyone in VVV was to some degree), it was that he was idealistic, "sweet" vs an uncaring world or a world that hated him. That and 'sharing'.

Originally Posted by jpwong

I want to ask how it was damaged during his escape, I don't think handguns could hurt it that much... And if it's the one he was in when it got hit by a missile in the earlier episodes, I would imagine either someone else fixed it, or he stole one that wasn't damaged (I would think there's more than one)

Arya meant how Inko hit his wing in episode 3 and how it caught fire (at least smoke), landed somewhere to fix it but he was seemly done pretty damn fast. Either is because his father taught him a few tricks about engineering or because we got bad writing again.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Thess

Uhh...I don't see Slaine as a leader. He doesn't have the charisma for a leader. Asseylum has, despite being a little airhead on the side.

Actually, I kind of see the opposite. I think Asseylum has skills, but yet, not what would be needed to be a strong leader of a feudal, martial empire like VERS. She hasn't really shown much charisma either other than her usual princess charm. I actually think that Slaine would probably grow into a better leader than she. The rate of his growth is just a few episodes is astounding, going from being everyone's doormat, to being able to take intiative and defy those he once served. He's loyal, brave, has courage, and he's not afraid to do what needs to be done. Asseylum only has some of those qualities.

Originally Posted by Arya

Well, obviously Asseylum should be the one entitled from each point of view, probably her commoner experience will make her grow; I was following even the speculation of her death in that part of the post.

But in any case as of now she lacks those qualities (well for the little we saw about her). Instead Slaine seems to be more apt to the role. Considering how he escaped from the castle he seems to have more charisma and strength than his previous position of a subdued let us foresee. And apparently he has the sensibility and the skills to know what, when and especially how say things (so even truths). As we apprehended also in this episode. Skill that should be useful to rule even as an emperor. I mean, it's THE skill that does or breaks a politician career.
On the other front both Inaho and Seylum seems to be more direct and prone to go straight to the point, so to speak. They seems more similar. We saw how Inaho didn't take into account Seylum's knowledge this episode and she didn't consider her circumstances when she grounded him, nor when she decided to reveal herself (but Rayet stopped her).
That obviously if Slaine will be revealed to have some relations with the current emperor lineage. In any other cases I don't see him being accepted by the Martians as a ruler.

I think the Martians really need a real "make-over" of sorts if they're going to remain, and going to try to have peace later on. I really can't see Asseylum as being strong enough to get her people on any path of peace that her people will actually listen to. Even when she was simply doing her peace mission, the only people who really seemed to support it was Slaine, his father (who's dead), and perhaps, her grandfather (and that's a weak "maybe"). Everyone else seemed to be just trying to convince her to forget the whole thing, from her maid to the nobles.

Slaine, if he is related to the royal family (or has the power of Aldnoah, which kind of also puts you in line for the throne), I think has the strength to be that kind of leader as well as one who has the intuition to notice corruption and backstabbing that seems to permeate the Martian ranks. Also, as a Martian that was treated as a Terran, he knows both sides of the coin and can begin to set up the government to lead away from their racist ideals. Asseylum, even while living with Terrans, and never truly hating them, has still seen them as "other", because she has always been Martian. I think that may hamper her from truly, completely understanding Terrans. Slaine, on the other hand, identifies himself as Terran, and yet holds a loyalty to Vers. He has made both places his home, and I can see him completely accepting himself as Martian, if that is indeed the case. He would be able to identify as both Terran and Martian, in a greater way than Asseylum could.

[Arya]

@jpwong: as Thess already said we were referring to episode 3.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think the Martians really need a real "make-over" of sorts if they're going to remain, and going to try to have peace later on. I really can't see Asseylum as being strong enough to get her people on any path of peace that her people will actually listen to. Even when she was simply doing her peace mission, the only people who really seemed to support it was Slaine, his father (who's dead), and perhaps, her grandfather (and that's a weak "maybe"). Everyone else seemed to be just trying to convince her to forget the whole thing, from her maid to the nobles.

Slaine, if he is related to the royal family (or has the power of Aldnoah, which kind of also puts you in line for the throne), I think has the strength to be that kind of leader as well as one who has the intuition to notice corruption and backstabbing that seems to permeate the Martian ranks. Also, as a Martian that was treated as a Terran, he knows both sides of the coin and can begin to set up the government to lead away from their racist ideals. Asseylum, even while living with Terrans, and never truly hating them, has still seen them as "other", because she has always been Martian. I think that may hamper her from truly, completely understanding Terrans. Slaine, on the other hand, identifies himself as Terran, and yet holds a loyalty to Vers. He has made both places his home, and I can see him completely accepting himself as Martian, if that is indeed the case. He would be able to identify as both Terran and Martian, in a greater way than Asseylum could.

I agree. Somehow I can't see Asseylum taking that role. This is surely due to the fact that we didn't see anything regarding the Martian Empire so the impression is she has no real connections with it to make plausible she could influence her people. And that what led me to see her as a caged princess (together to her odd behavior at times). (On a very minor note, watching the OP to catch some details about that holding-the-gun frame I noted how she previously is depicted lying down staring at the sky, a figurative picture of her that adds up to that idea I have of her).
She was alone even when Slaine crashed in her palace. But on that I can see being a show's fault or intent, given the kind of event that happened. And she is also on Earth on a very dire period that surely can't give her even the glimpse of what it really is and means. On a side note, we didn't see anything about the Earth either. The scale of the events so far are really localized. So they still can go anywhere if they want.

I also agree about your points about Slaine on how he inherits both sides of the coin, he is a Terrain but also a Martian, he was subdued, experience that will give him the due understanding of being a fair ruler. Etc, etc, etc. To make it short honestly, he seems designed exactly for the role The only thing he lacks is the gene or the power.

[Triple_R]

Inaho is an excellent tactician, very resourceful, and with considerable science knowledge. However, how good he is at military strategy and long-term planning in general remains to be seen.

L-Elf is an excellent strategist, an excellent (or better) tactician, and is generally good at long-term planning. Inaho might have an edge on him in pure science knowledge, but that's the only "brain" edge I'd give him on L-Elf so far. And comparing the two's physical capabilities would honestly be cruel to Inaho.

However, I think that Inaho can be considered a blending of sorts of L-Elf and Haruto. I certainly wouldn't call Inaho the best of both worlds, but he does have some of L-Elf's strengths, and maybe some of Haruto's. As generally expressionless as Inaho is, he does seem to have a good circle of friends and family members who seem to care about him and respect him, so he does seem to have something akin to Haruto's ability to connect with other people.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

L-Elf is an excellent strategist, an excellent (or better) tactician, and is generally good at long-term planning. Inaho might have an edge on him in pure science knowledge, but that's the only "brain" edge I'd give him on L-Elf so far. And comparing the two's physical capabilities would honestly be cruel to Inaho.

I'm pretty sure that there are at least some self-defense or bare-handed combat during his time at the school. So I wouldn't count Inaho being being utterly dominated by L-elf yet until we see some non-Kataphrakt action from Inaho.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

I'm pretty sure that there are at least some self-defense or bare-handed combat during his time at the school. So I wouldn't count Inaho being being utterly dominated by L-elf yet until we see some non-Kataphrakt action from Inaho.

He was successfully knocked to the ground by Asseylum, remember?

I doubt Asseylum could have done that to L-Elf.

[gunner56]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Inaho is an excellent tactician, very resourceful, and with considerable science knowledge. However, how good he is at military strategy and long-term planning in general remains to be seen.

I agree somewhat. But for the latter, I think otherwise. Here, I'll put something I commented in EP5. One commentator wrote:

"I hate how unrealistic it is that some high school kid [Inaho] with barely any training can be 10x better than trained soldiers... I'm enjoying the show for the most part but I REALLY have to try and ignore that fact sometimes. Especially in this episode, where he literally takes on the enemy [Vlad] by himself. So dumb."

I replied:

"Rather than saying apparently he can be better than trained soldiers, he is more of a 'tactician,' so to speak. He probably needs some time to formulate a plan. E.g. in EP3. And then, Inaho had between the end of EP4 to the time of the attack in this episode to come up with a plan. For other soldiers, they just encountered Trillram and Vlad for the first time, not knowing their capabilities, whereas Inaho observed, thus making a plan using that knowledge. (But, of course, in EP4, he met Vlad for the first time.) We hardly got to see any close combat from Inaho. In EP3, Trillram was merely caught by surprised. In EP4 and 5, he just shoots, dodge, takes some hits, and grabs, though this may be stretching it in terms of what is considered as 'combat.' Nevertheless, there's still the point about Inaho's encounter with Vlad for the first time. This is probably explained by Vlad's character and Inaho's calculative thinking in contrast to the soldier's astonishment and fear. But, one probable weakness is his 'time' to formulate a plan, as seen in EP4. As it is his first encounter, he only tried to buy time for repairs in order to escape or for reinforcements to come. If the bout lasted any longer, then Inaho and everyone else may have been killed. But, of course, there are some reasons for or against about my claims regarding this topic, i.e., Inaho being better than trained soldiers, that I am missing or fail to recognize. Though your logic is sound, which anyone can agree with, I just wanted to enlighten your view of this topic."

So, what I'm getting at is that one of Inaho's strength is long-term planning, whereas he does not excel in short-term.

Hope this will help enrich discussion.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

He was successfully knocked to the ground by Asseylum, remember?

I doubt Asseylum could have done that to L-Elf.

But Inaho didn't tried to fight back or struggle, we need Inaho in a real life or death situation to be sure. Though L-elf will probably still beat Inaho, but I don't think it will be that one-sided.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

But Inaho didn't tried to fight back or struggle, we need Inaho in a real life or death situation to be sure. Though L-elf will probably still beat Inaho, but I don't think it will be that one-sided.

I'm sorry, but L-Elf has very few weaknesses and was always poised to kill whatever was in his way. Putting that together with his almost superhuman fighting ability (remember the "screw scene"?) and his practically prophetic ability to plan to the last detail, a physical fight between L-Elf and Inaho would be completely one-sided. This was a man that killed thousands of hardened soldiers with full training, single-handedly. Inaho would probably be dead before he thought out his first move. (He tends to take a bit to watch his opponent and plan his moves if you've noticed).

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm sorry, but L-Elf has very few weaknesses and was always poised to kill whatever was in his way. Putting that together with his almost superhuman fighting ability (remember the "screw scene"?) and his practically prophetic ability to plan to the last detail, a physical fight between L-Elf and Inaho would be completely one-sided. This was a man that killed thousands of hardened soldiers with full training, single-handedly. Inaho would probably be dead before he thought out his first move. (He tends to take a bit to watch his opponent and plan his moves if you've noticed).

Not directly, as OP as L-elf is he is still a human. Going head on fighting a thousands of soldiers will get him killed. Until we know Inaho's true capability, we can't say for sure. Remember he almost die rescuing Lise had there not been Haruto to the rescue.