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Old 2018-04-16, 01:43   Link #8221
Velsy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
She won't show up again. Her name's Zesshi Zetsumei by the way, which literally translates to Absolute Death Absolute Life (lol). She's a troll-rring. Just like that old lady who supposedly gave gazef his ring, and that dragon god or whatever who used to be a set of armor, or that elf dude who showed up out of nowhere but could possibly be a Player (Vol. 11), or that legal-loli queen from the dragon kingdom who's supposed to be handling an invasion or something (Vol. 9) Or that talking artifact Ainz dumped to Hamsuki after Vol. 2 (last time we see Hamsuki she's training a death knight as her pet, which is prolly another troll-rring)...

That's why I advised u not to try keeping track of them, even though there MAY be a chance the troll-thor decide to pick up on one of them on whim to start a new arc. The Troll-thor hate Chekhov's gun to the point of sadism, and we as his masochistic readers can only kowtow in awe of his troll-some might.
I see. That kinda sucks. I was looking forward what would happen with her. From the way she spoke in the anime I had hopes for something interesting. I can see why you call it a troll author when she wont be making an appearance. We have seen NOTHING of the Scriptures or Sylain Theocracy since volume 2. Even tho they were suppose to be sending recon team to keep an eye on the frozen vampire, that hasnt been there for at least 2 months.

As for the tolling comments, I think I get what you mean.. Many mistakes or even lies have been riddle throught this LN. I've just put it down to bad writing since I cant decide if they are really lies or mistakes. Such things as I mentioned before, author saying one thing, then later changing his tune. Like you have the resurrection part where evileye explain about the loss of life force turns people into temp cripples, those who are even too weak become ash.. Ainz even ask if they can get back into the fight after resurrection and Evileye was "nup". Then they get resurrected and jump back into the fight fit as a fiddle. Was the time when Entroma was first introduced as a human girl..... turned out later shes an insect monster. Last night starting volume 9, said Leinas had a gold cloth over her face... turned out later the author telling us its now hair over her face. These are just example I can remember off my head. Setting lore/rules, then breaking them as the author is not a good look. And the authors favorite catch phrase seems to be "like a puppet with there strings cut" Thats everywhere so much I face palm now when I see it. Like its gotten stale.

Anway so we wont meet that Heterocrhomatic girl, I not sure what to do. Volume 8 was dreadful, so I wonder if I should find it worth continuing. Well I started 9 for now, probably should try finish that at least. Hopefully more Narberal ? <3. Ainz hasnt really be impressing me tho, always just pretending to know shit but actually wanting the guardians to give him the answers. Hes not standing up as a leader (its the demirgure/guardian show). But it had been nice for a change, from those reincarnation loser MCs :/
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Last edited by Velsy; 2018-04-16 at 02:11.
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Old 2018-04-16, 01:54   Link #8222
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
I see. That kinda sucks. I was looking forward what would happen with her. From the way she spoke in the anime I had hopes for something interesting. I can see why you call it a troll author when she wont be making an appearance. He have seen NOTHING of the Scriptures or Sylain Theocracy since volume 2. Even tho they were suppos to be sending recon team to keep an eye on the frozen vampire, that hasnt been there for 2 months.

As for the tolling comments, I think I get what you mean.. Many mistakes or even lies have been riddle throught this LN. I've just put it down to bad writing since I cant decide if they are really lies or mistakes. Such things as I mentioned before, author saying one thing, then later changing his tune. Like you have the resurrection part where evileye explain about the loss of life force turns people into cripples, those who are even too weak become ash.. Ainz even ask if they can get back into the fight after resurrection and Evileye was "nup". Then they get resurrected and jump back into the fight fit as a fiddle. Was the time when Entroma was first introduced as a human girl..... turned out later shes an insect monster. Last night starting volume 9, said Leinas had a gold cloth over her face... turned out later the author telling us its hair over her face. These are just example I can remember from my head. Setting lore/rules, then breaking them as the author is not a good look. And the authors favourit catch phrase is "like a puppet with there strings cut" Thats everywhere.

Anway so we wont meet that Heterocrhomatic girl, I not sure what to do. Volume 8 was dreadful, so I wonder if I should find it worth continueing. Ainz hasnt really be impressing me, always just pretending to know shit but actually wanting the guardians to give him the answers. Hes not standing up as a leader.
yeah it's also annoying me, as i previous told ainz "constantly change of personality like sometimes he don't care of humans then another time he's care or he being a undead make hum unable to have "emotion" then we get undeads full of emotions, this don't make any sense i do feel which he don't care about his own rules and just switch things to whatever he want and feel it's "cool".
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Old 2018-04-16, 04:43   Link #8223
pervypig
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^^ IMHO it isn't so much of bad writing as a total disregard for planning. I kinda get that authors got a tight schedule for deadlines to meet, and I figured many of his material originate from the WN.

Nevertheless, I still hate getting baited with troll-rrings that just vanish without a trace for 10 whole volumes, like: "WTF happened to Clementine's corpse after she got killed and then disappeared from Vol 2.", or "WTF happened to Magic Kingdom (TM)'s new state-sponsored Adventurer's guild", etc. Yeah, I'm a stinger-junkie...
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Old 2018-04-16, 06:46   Link #8224
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
yeah it's also annoying me, as i previous told ainz "constantly change of personality like sometimes he don't care of humans then another time he's care or he being a undead make hum unable to have "emotion" then we get undeads full of emotions, this don't make any sense i do feel which he don't care about his own rules and just switch things to whatever he want and feel it's "cool".
You forget that the series is a first-person POV novel and the narrator is a "normal human" called Suzuki Satoru, who might or might not come to wrong conclusions. And sometimes the narrator changes and we don't even get the information that Satoru already got, like the whole implied switch between Ainz and Pandora's actor in the capital's mansion in vol. 6.

The emotion issue is one of the things I suspect that Suzuki Satoru made a wrong assumption about. I already presented a theory about that two pages or so earlier in this thread.


At the very least it wouldn't be the first time that the narrator makes a false assumption. He also made a false assumption with the "Albion Sheep", though in this case the actual implication was not too hard to figure out. So with that precedent, it wouldn't be "too far fetched" to claim that it's because the author intentionally let the narrator make a false assumption rather than just having done "bad writing".
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Old 2018-04-16, 07:27   Link #8225
Sixth
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Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
well being honest i can see demiurge "betraying" ainz on that, not saying which he will try to take over ainz rule, but for sure he not gonna give up on his experiments even if he had to go against ainz orders, because he feel which this can be helpfull to ainz and nazerik, the others like solution i can see holding for a longer but not sure if they could really hold "forever" as they grow more and more hunger for it.

No matter how they are loyal to momo they "evil side" will gonna find a way to "circle around the rules".

Even the "most trump loyals followers are pissed of him for his "betrayal" of them.

Part of they loyalty to momo come from they think which momonga is a "ultimate force of evil" or the evil overlord and him will support all they nasty actions no matter how cruel will be they actions he will be there to support them, if momonga decided to "switch" to the "good side" and force them be "good persons" or totally opposite to they personality it can slowly lead them to get anger over time and maybe rebel against him since he is deny them they most "basic nature".
You have just voiced my concern about this issue. They remains loyal to Ainz because so far Ainz hasn't put them in difficult spot.

Just like the Royal Guards and King from HxH. One of the so-called loyal Guard was busy plotting to ruin his King's vision because the King doesn't act like the "King" that the said Royal Guard envisioned.

Plus, wasn't that Albedo is also plotting something sinister behind Ainz too?

Last edited by Sixth; 2018-04-16 at 08:39.
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Old 2018-04-16, 08:25   Link #8226
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
You have just voiced my concern about this issue. They remains loyal to Ainz because so far Ainz hasn't put them in difficulty spot.

Just like the Royal Guards and King from HxH. One of the so-called loyal Guard was busy plotting to ruin his King's vision because the King doesn't act like the "King" that the said Royal Guard envisioned.

Plus, wasn't that Albedo is also plotting something sinister behind Ainz too?
In Albedo's case, she doing it because she believes that what she does is good for Ainz a.k.a she does it out of "love" and "loyalty"
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Old 2018-04-16, 10:45   Link #8227
Randrak42
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I just had an entertaining thought... the Slane Theocracy was planning on using a dragon lord to use as vanguard against the SK. How funny would it be if Ainz killed it/found its corpse and rezzed it as his minion, only to use it against the ST.
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Old 2018-04-16, 10:59   Link #8228
SolidN7
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
You forget that the series is a first-person POV novel and the narrator is a "normal human" called Suzuki Satoru, who might or might not come to wrong conclusions. And sometimes the narrator changes and we don't even get the information that Satoru already got, like the whole implied switch between Ainz and Pandora's actor in the capital's mansion in vol. 6.

The emotion issue is one of the things I suspect that Suzuki Satoru made a wrong assumption about. I already presented a theory about that two pages or so earlier in this thread.


At the very least it wouldn't be the first time that the narrator makes a false assumption. He also made a false assumption with the "Albion Sheep", though in this case the actual implication was not too hard to figure out. So with that precedent, it wouldn't be "too far fetched" to claim that it's because the author intentionally let the narrator make a false assumption rather than just having done "bad writing".
Nah, again no, Momonga doesnt have a secret personality or is a secret genius.
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Old 2018-04-16, 11:20   Link #8229
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by sierra117 View Post
In Albedo's case, she doing it because she believes that what she does is good for Ainz a.k.a she does it out of "love" and "loyalty"
that is the point "she is using her "own vision about what is right and wrong" to do something against ainz, for her she still being loyal to him but ofcourse this is not a action of someone loyal, the same could be said about the others, if ainz put a rule of "non kill humans" or which now the nazerick population must threat humans as "equals" it could start to conflict with they "personalities" and make some of them do something against him or by anger/frustration or by they "own vision" about what means right or wrong.
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Old 2018-04-16, 13:11   Link #8230
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
You have just voiced my concern about this issue. They remains loyal to Ainz because so far Ainz hasn't put them in difficult spot.

Just like the Royal Guards and King from HxH. One of the so-called loyal Guard was busy plotting to ruin his King's vision because the King doesn't act like the "King" that the said Royal Guard envisioned.

Plus, wasn't that Albedo is also plotting something sinister behind Ainz too?
Maybe, maybe not. It's possible she's looking for Downfall of Castle and Country to force Ainz to love her, but it's also possible she's only following his orders to identify the "enemy that brainwashed Shalltear".

Aside from that, what's she done? She hides her harem room, but well, that's understandable. She also occasionally does various things to seduce him, but that's still pretty far from betraying him. Especially since she was made - by him - to love him.
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Old 2018-04-16, 13:36   Link #8231
Velsy
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I hate the idea of them betraying or going rogue,. It'd make me disappointed when they were specifically made to be loyal to the guild Ainz oowl Gown or specifically the 41 supreme beings. That should be in there default game settings. None of them have shown signs of going against this. Apart from the brainwashing/mind control that is. What ever Ainz says is like gold to them.

However, I could see Albedo locking Ainz up in a room, chained to a bed and her taking care of him and feeling him up. Precisely because shes a yandere type.

That being said, I feel its "more likely" Albedos suspicious actions are more for a civil war amungsts NPCs, than betraying Ainz.
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Old 2018-04-16, 13:57   Link #8232
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
I hate the idea of them betraying or going rogue,. It'd make me disappointed when they were specifically made to be loyal to the guild Ainz oowl Gown or specifically the 41 supreme beings. That should be in there default game settings. None of them have shown signs of going against this. Apart from the brainwashing/mind control that is. What ever Ainz says is like gold to them.

However, I could see Albedo locking Ainz up in a room, chained to a bed and her taking care of him and feeling him up. Precisely because shes a yandere type.

That being said, I feel its "more likely" Albedos suspicious actions are more for a civil war amungsts NPCs, than betraying Ainz.
Actually sebas showed some little signs since he was start to doubt ainz and nazarick since it goes against his natural personality, when you have peoples from different personalities mixed in the same place is natural to expectate things going "wrong" and peoples disagree and things happen, again what is matter is how much freewill turning in "real living beings" was give to them and how much they way of thing can lead them to go against or behind ainz for the sake of the "nazarick" as a whole, it's pretty possible wha the writer need is do it, because it's pretty prausible they turning rougue based on they current situation, remember it is no more "a game" and they are no more limited to only they "setttings".
that is the problem "it's no more a game" and they no have a "freewill", which lead them to do things by themselfs instead of just stand waiting for ainz orders, like i told sebas was a exemple of it being possible to happen, what's matter more is "how much freewill" they have outside they original program or how much they can evolve as individuals and make decisions by themselfs guided by they own way to see things.
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Maybe, maybe not. It's possible she's looking for Downfall of Castle and Country to force Ainz to love her, but it's also possible she's only following his orders to identify the "enemy that brainwashed Shalltear".

Aside from that, what's she done? She hides her harem room, but well, that's understandable. She also occasionally does various things to seduce him, but that's still pretty far from betraying him. Especially since she was made - by him - to love him.
yeah but remember "love" can work on both sides, positive and negative specially when you get "jealous" as a fact, imagine how much humiliation can be for her if ainz start to threat humans in the same way he does to her, the same race she see as a bugs and not worth of ainz love, this could really piss her off a lot.
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Old 2018-04-16, 14:03   Link #8233
Velsy
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Quote:
Although he ―as a warrior― had lost much of his strength to age, as a commander, he was a better commander than even Gazef, which made him just as indispensable to the Kingdom as the Warrior-Captain.

Quote:
“No, don’t take it to heart, your Majesty. In truth, entrusting command to Marquis Bowlrob would have been foolish in the extreme. After all, he only knows how to order charges and retreats.”
What did I say about inconsistency's ? Unless the author is trying to tell us Gazef is terrible at commanding ?

*edit*

Quote:
Nobody could speak. Their eyes were drawn irresistibly to her.
The girl holding her twisted black staff was adorable. When she grew up, she would surely break many hearts. Her beauty would be such that men would do anything for her. Even her demure expression was like a flower blossoming under the moonlight.
Another mistake. Author got Mare mixed up with Aura. How did he mess that up. Someones got to check his work before he releases it.
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Old 2018-04-16, 17:39   Link #8234
GreyZone
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Nah, again no, Momonga doesnt have a secret personality or is a secret genius.
1. He can't be a "secret" genius, because he is already seen as such by the in-world characters.

2. My post was mainly about the fact that the narrator both makes mistakes (Albion Sheep) AND doesn't tell the audience everything (the switch with Pandora's Actor in vol. 6) and yet you ignore the whole post (about the unreliable narrator) just to make your point to refuse my theory which I only mentioned in passing, because you appearently don't like me and/or my theory and you didn't even explain why.


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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
What did I say about inconsistency's ? Unless the author is trying to tell us Gazef is terrible at commanding ?
Not neccessarily an inconsistency. The first quote is a line of narration, which, I assume, was at that time an omniscient narrator. I don't remember the exact context of the second quote, but I am sure it was during a discussion with participants who had strongly polarising affiliations (Royal faction vs noble faction), so I think that was just one faction trying to downplay the other.
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Old 2018-04-16, 19:16   Link #8235
Kuroageha
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Maybe he quoted wrong?
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Old 2018-04-16, 20:30   Link #8236
Fufufu
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In vol.11 Ainz himself asked Aura that if his orders went against her creator wishes which one she would chose which gave her a hard time to answer meaning if Ainz's orders go against NPC's creators they might not fully obey. And in case of Sebas Blueknight78 he's said if he has to obey any order without questioning blindly that would be touch me he's not doubting
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Old 2018-04-16, 23:13   Link #8237
Sixth
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Maybe, maybe not. It's possible she's looking for Downfall of Castle and Country to force Ainz to love her, but it's also possible she's only following his orders to identify the "enemy that brainwashed Shalltear".

Aside from that, what's she done? She hides her harem room, but well, that's understandable. She also occasionally does various things to seduce him, but that's still pretty far from betraying him. Especially since she was made - by him - to love him.
From what I found at reddit overlord, Albedo is secretly gathering lv80+demons as her death squad to hunt down other supreme beings because she hated them for abandoned them, which is clearly contradicted to what Ainz wanted. She even try to recruit Pandora Actor... although I am not sure whether PA accept her offer or not.

Correct me if this is not true.
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Old 2018-04-16, 23:21   Link #8238
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by Fufufu View Post
In vol.11 Ainz himself asked Aura that if his orders went against her creator wishes which one she would chose which gave her a hard time to answer meaning if Ainz's orders go against NPC's creators they might not fully obey. And in case of Sebas Blueknight78 he's said if he has to obey any order without questioning blindly that would be touch me he's not doubting
that is what i'm saying whichj sebas not was "happy blind following ainz" as peoples think, he somehow can see some nazerick actions as bad since his own personality is "good" and it conflict with him and you told in the aura case it could lead him to a one point disobey ainz or really rebel against nazerick, if ainz don't showed to him which him is not "that monster".

It's possible for ainz actions make some of the denizes start to "not follow him" if his actions can affect they way they are made to behavios, like if they some them are psychopats with love killing and torture peoples and one day ainz decide to "order them to stop to do it", while at the beginner they could obey, overtime it could start to anger them since it goes against they nature, is like you trying to make someone which lived most of his life eating "meat" and force him goes full vegan against his will just because you ordered them to do, it can work in short time but a long time he will try to disobey and go for meat.

They are no longer just "NPC"s, they are now living beings and now they can make they own decisions, while most of the times it will be for the sake of nazerick and ainz it could be for they own pleasure too and if they feel not geting anymore "love" from they bosses it can lead them to "disobey".
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Old 2018-04-16, 23:35   Link #8239
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
Another mistake. Author got Mare mixed up with Aura. How did he mess that up. Someones got to check his work before he releases it.
Ah quoting something completely out of context to support one's argument. Never gets old. While I can't comment on the former example as I can't be bothered to hunt down the source, did we all just conveniently forget that Mare was designed as a trap? If nothing else those unaware of their true nature are supposed to mistake them for the opposite gender.

Anyway here is the text with a bit more context:
Spoiler:

I can't be bothered to read back more, but this is most likely the first time these troops have seen Mare. And given that Mare is supposed to be a trap...

Wasn't really planning on responding, but it's getting tiresome seeing these posts needlessly bashing the author.

Also one of the key aspects of the story is the NPC's growth as actual people rather than following a predetermined set of algorithms back in the game era. And for the most part they are growing and capable of autonomous action with the exception of one simple fact.

Their loyalty to their remaining God trumps everything else, especially after Shalltear's episode. So far the only exception to this is Albedo and hey it just so happens that she was the only one who had her settings tampered with. Who knew turning an insane slut to be YOUR insane slut could have such far-reaching consequences?
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Old 2018-04-16, 23:43   Link #8240
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by MonkeyDude View Post
Ah quoting something completely out of context to support one's argument. Never gets old. While I can't comment on the former example as I can't be bothered to hunt down the source, did we all just conveniently forget that Mare was designed as a trap? If nothing else those unaware of their true nature are supposed to mistake them for the opposite gender.

Anyway here is the text with a bit more context:
Spoiler:

I can't be bothered to read back more, but this is most likely the first time these troops have seen Mare. And given that Mare is supposed to be a trap...

Wasn't really planning on responding, but it's getting tiresome seeing these posts needlessly bashing the author.

Also one of the key aspects of the story is the NPC's growth as actual people rather than following a predetermined set of algorithms back in the game era. And for the most part they are growing and capable of autonomous action with the exception of one simple fact.

Their loyalty to their remaining God trumps everything else, especially after Shalltear's episode. So far the only exception to this is Albedo and hey it just so happens that she was the only one who had her settings tampered with. Who knew turning an insane slut to be YOUR insane slut could have such far-reaching consequences?
that is when your "argument fail" she is not "special" the only change he did was make her less slute and be in love with him, all the others setting remains the same, this "dont make her special" and if she can disobey others can do aswell and you need to provide a "source" where is clear stated which then can't disobey no matter of what" and they aways will be blindfollwing ainzs or others bosses forever and ever if you can provide the source ok, no problem if not them is just you 'expeculatin" like anyone.
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