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Old 2018-04-17, 00:24   Link #8241
MonkeyDude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
that is when your "argument fail" she is not "special" the only change he did was make her less slute and be in love with him, all the others setting remains the same, this "dont make her special" and if she can disobey others can do aswell and you need to provide a "source" where is clear stated which then can't disobey no matter of what" and they aways will be blindfollwing ainzs or others bosses forever and ever if you can provide the source ok, no problem if not them is just you 'expeculatin" like anyone.
Okay so you don't consider being the only one to have settings tampered with as "special." I...won't play. Can't be bothered. I'll just leave that there is an important distinction with Albedo speficially being "in love with Momonga." as well as the plethora of settings left behind that is supposed to evoke a form of dissonance with her.

And that dissonance most likely being a woman with such regal bearing is in fact certifiably insane. Perhaps on the level of Renner? That insanity coupled with single-minded devotion to her love? Well there's a reason why there's the commonly held belief that love makes you do crazy things.

Oh yeah you mentioned to provide a source about them not being able to disobey no matter what. Nevermind that I never mentioned such a thing, but yeah they are more than capable of disobeying. Hell they'll be more than happy to do it for the sake of their prime directive. Some more than others obviously. Perhaps due to them having more comprehensive settings compared to their brethren and therefore being more "human at the start?

And yeah I'm just speculating like the rest of you when it comes to material not specifically written in the novels, but at least I have the decency to extrapolate from what we do know so far.
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Old 2018-04-17, 00:27   Link #8242
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
As for the tolling comments, I think I get what you mean.. Many mistakes or even lies have been riddle throught this LN. I've just put it down to bad writing since I cant decide if they are really lies or mistakes. Such things as I mentioned before, author saying one thing, then later changing his tune. Like you have the resurrection part where evileye explain about the loss of life force turns people into temp cripples, those who are even too weak become ash.. Ainz even ask if they can get back into the fight after resurrection and Evileye was "nup". Then they get resurrected and jump back into the fight fit as a fiddle.
Didn't someone explain this to you in the anime thread? Resurrecting people only drains levels, which is what makes them unable to move properly. Fo people as strong as Blue Rose, they could still fight regardless, just not at their usual levels.
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Old 2018-04-17, 00:54   Link #8243
pervypig
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Originally Posted by MonkeyDude View Post
Oh yeah you mentioned to provide a source about them not being able to disobey no matter what. Nevermind that I never mentioned such a thing, but yeah they are more than capable of disobeying. Hell they'll be more than happy to do it for the sake of their prime directive. Some more than others obviously. Perhaps due to them having more comprehensive settings compared to their brethren and therefore being more "human at the start?

And yeah I'm just speculating like the rest of you when it comes to material not specifically written in the novels, but at least I have the decency to extrapolate from what we do know so far.
I don't blame ya, but speculating in Overlord is wasted effort, even if you have actual material on hand, cos the Troll-thor doesn't bother to read his past volumes. If he does, we won't have so many Troll-rrings around.

Or maybe he does read them, which would make him an even worse sadist than I thought.

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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
At the very least it wouldn't be the first time that the narrator makes a false assumption. He also made a false assumption with the "Albion Sheep", though in this case the actual implication was not too hard to figure out. So with that precedent, it wouldn't be "too far fetched" to claim that it's because the author intentionally let the narrator make a false assumption rather than just having done "bad writing".
The Troll-thor practically never uses 1st person narrative, though he does include internal monologues and points of view, to hand-wave false assumptions. I agree that it is not "bad writing" so much as "complete disregard for planning in favor of writing what's cool and hits all the right parts in a fanboy's self-insertion fantasy".
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Old 2018-04-17, 00:56   Link #8244
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
The Troll-thor practically never uses 1st person narrative, though he does include internal monologues and points of view, to hand-wave false assumptions. I agree that it is not "bad writing" so much as "complete disregard for planning in favor of writing what's cool and hits all the right parts in a fanboy's self-insertion fantasy".
Then this isn't criticism against the author though, but rather against the editor(s).

People should remember that internal monologues are also the kryptonite against that so-called "self-insert". If you want a self-insert you keep your protagonist as vague as possible (e.g. "silent protagonist" from many RPGs). PERIOD. Anything else is not self-insert. Concrete characterisation like we have with Suzuki Satoru makes Ainz a "fixed" character and therefore much harder to "insert yourself into". Therefore it's not self-insert.

As for "similarity" with the audience:

1. functioning member of society =/= NEET Otaku
2. guild master of high-end guild = at most 0.001% out of all NEET Otakus

It's not self-insert for the target audience.
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Old 2018-04-17, 00:58   Link #8245
Blueknight78
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Originally Posted by MonkeyDude View Post
Okay so you don't consider being the only one to have settings tampered with as "special." I...won't play. Can't be bothered. I'll just leave that there is an important distinction with Albedo speficially being "in love with Momonga." as well as the plethora of settings left behind that is supposed to evoke a form of dissonance with her.

And that dissonance most likely being a woman with such regal bearing is in fact certifiably insane. Perhaps on the level of Renner? That insanity coupled with single-minded devotion to her love? Well there's a reason why there's the commonly held belief that love makes you do crazy things.

Oh yeah you mentioned to provide a source about them not being able to disobey no matter what. Nevermind that I never mentioned such a thing, but yeah they are more than capable of disobeying. Hell they'll be more than happy to do it for the sake of their prime directive. Some more than others obviously. Perhaps due to them having more comprehensive settings compared to their brethren and therefore being more "human at the start?

And yeah I'm just speculating like the rest of you when it comes to material not specifically written in the novels, but at least I have the decency to extrapolate from what we do know so far.
ok man first i don't did any thing to make you go like a "rager monster over me" we are discussing them please be calm man here is not to fight but discuss aways take that in account if you feel anger over my posts just ignore it and be peace

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Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
I don't blame ya, but speculating in Overlord is wasted effort, even if you have actual material on hand, cos the Troll-thor doesn't bother to read his past volumes. If he does, we won't have so many Troll-rrings around.

Or maybe he does read them, which would make him an even worse sadist than I thought.



The Troll-thor practically never uses 1st person narrative, though he does include internal monologues and points of view, to hand-wave false assumptions. I agree that it is not "bad writing" so much as "complete disregard for planning in favor of writing what's cool and hits all the right parts in a fanboy's self-insertion fantasy".
yeah and posts like your don't help too much either, because it's means which we can't discuss otherwise we be called trolls and all, yeah that is really why internet is like that, peoples will automatically get anger and annoyed because "we are talking about they "precious" and any negative post will be troll and hater really thanks for it.
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Old 2018-04-17, 01:27   Link #8246
pervypig
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
People should remember that internal monologues are also the kryptonite against that so-called "self-insert". If you want a self-insert you keep your protagonist as vague as possible (e.g. "silent protagonist" from many RPGs). PERIOD. Anything else is not self-insert. Concrete characterisation like we have with Suzuki Satoru makes Ainz a "fixed" character and therefore much harder to "insert yourself into". Therefore it's not self-insert.

As for "similarity" with the audience:

1. functioning member of society =/= NEET Otaku
2. guild master of high-end guild = at most 0.001% out of all NEET Otakus

It's not self-insert for the target audience.
"Self-insertion is a literary device in which a fictional character, who represents the real author of a work of fiction, appears as an idealized character within that fiction, either overtly or in disguise."-Wikipedia

It never says anything about inserting the reader into the fic, so I'm not contradicting when I call the author a fanboy.
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Old 2018-04-17, 01:57   Link #8247
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by pervypig View Post
"Self-insertion is a literary device in which a fictional character, who represents the real author of a work of fiction, appears as an idealized character within that fiction, either overtly or in disguise."-Wikipedia

It never says anything about inserting the reader into the fic, so I'm not contradicting when I call the author a fanboy.
Ah, so you mean author-self-insert then? I assumed it was about reader-self-insert. However keep in mind that the story is still going through editors regardless. And author-self-insert is not necessarily a bad thing, as it's simply using one's own preferences as a source of inspiration. Moreover it's hard to identify this source of inspiration as the cause of some error or "inconsistency". An inconsistency could also just be a honest mistake that slipped through both author and editor(s) and could be completely unrelated to the author possibly fantasizing himself as one of his characters.
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Old 2018-04-17, 02:29   Link #8248
Velsy
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Originally Posted by MonkeyDude View Post
Ah quoting something completely out of context to support one's argument. Never gets old. While I can't comment on the former example as I can't be bothered to hunt down the source, did we all just conveniently forget that Mare was designed as a trap? If nothing else those unaware of their true nature are supposed to mistake them for the opposite gender.

Anyway here is the text with a bit more context:
Spoiler:

I can't be bothered to read back more, but this is most likely the first time these troops have seen Mare. And given that Mare is supposed to be a trap...

Wasn't really planning on responding, but it's getting tiresome seeing these posts needlessly bashing the author.

Also one of the key aspects of the story is the NPC's growth as actual people rather than following a predetermined set of algorithms back in the game era. And for the most part they are growing and capable of autonomous action with the exception of one simple fact.

Their loyalty to their remaining God trumps everything else, especially after Shalltear's episode. So far the only exception to this is Albedo and hey it just so happens that she was the only one who had her settings tampered with. Who knew turning an insane slut to be YOUR insane slut could have such far-reaching consequences?
No, the whole point is the part he said she would grow up to be a beauty which would break hearts of men ?. Yet Mare is a BOY. When Mare gows up he would look like a BOY (probably a pretty boy). Mare is androgynous right now cause hes a child and peoples first opinion is hes a girl cause he wears girl cloths. You adding more context changed nothing. Thats why I didnt add more and kept the quote small for space. Well since Mare is an NPC, I dont even know if they will grow up anyway. It would of actually been understandable if it was Aura getting out of the carriage in this context. Yet also the one getting out had a staff, which is clearly ment to be Mare. Thats why hes got it mixed up. If he said gay men, that would probably work too.

But yes, I should stop bringing up his mistakes hey, cause its making him look bad, when his story is consistent with them. I was bringing them up as examples to back my point I had previous mentioned in a prior post.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Didn't someone explain this to you in the anime thread? Resurrecting people only drains levels, which is what makes them unable to move properly. Fo people as strong as Blue Rose, they could still fight regardless, just not at their usual levels.
Yeah I think I did use it as an example in the anime during one episode. I still cant buy it still :/ Since it goes against everything evileye even said, and shes been living for 250 years. It could of been easily avoided too if planned better :/. So it continue to stick out ><

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
Actually sebas showed some little signs since he was start to doubt ainz and nazarick since it goes against his natural personality, when you have peoples from different personalities mixed in the same place is natural to expectate things going "wrong" and peoples disagree and things happen, again what is matter is how much freewill turning in "real living beings" was give to them and how much they way of thing can lead them to go against or behind ainz for the sake of the "nazarick" as a whole, it's pretty possible wha the writer need is do it, because it's pretty prausible they turning rougue based on they current situation, remember it is no more "a game" and they are no more limited to only they "setttings".
that is the problem "it's no more a game" and they no have a "freewill", which lead them to do things by themselfs instead of just stand waiting for ainz orders, like i told sebas was a exemple of it being possible to happen, what's matter more is "how much freewill" they have outside they original program or how much they can evolve as individuals and make decisions by themselfs guided by they own way to see things.
Was that the time realizing his personalty seems like a curse ? in volume 6/7 or maybe its a part I havent reached yet
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Last edited by Velsy; 2018-04-17 at 03:08.
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Old 2018-04-17, 02:56   Link #8249
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
No, the whole point is the part he said she would grow up to be a beauty which would break hearts of men ?. Yet Mare is a BOY. When Mare gows up he would look like a BOY. Mare is androgynous right now cause hes a child and peoples first opinion is hes a girl cause he wears girl cloths. You adding more context changed nothing. Thats why I didnt add moreand kept the quote small for space. Well since Mare is an NPC, I dont even know if they will grow up anyway. It would of actually been understandable if it was Aura getting out of the carriage in this context. Yet also the one getting out had a staff, which is clearly ment to be Mare. Thats why hes got it mixed up.

But yes, I should stop bringing up his mistakes hey, cause its making him look bad, when his story is riddled with them. I was bringing them up as examples to back my point I had previous mentioned in a prior post.


Yeah I think I did use it as an example in the anime during one episode. I still cant buy it still :/. It could of been easily avoided too. So it doesnt continue to stick out ><
The point, which you seem to have missed entirely, is that it wasn't a statement of fact from an omniscient narrator. It was a description of Nimble's thoughts on seeing Mare. He just didn't guess Mare's gender. The emperor made the same mistake. It seems a lot of the author's "mistakes" are just your poor reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
From what I found at reddit overlord, Albedo is secretly gathering lv80+demons as her death squad to hunt down other supreme beings because she hated them for abandoned them, which is clearly contradicted to what Ainz wanted. She even try to recruit Pandora Actor... although I am not sure whether PA accept her offer or not.

Correct me if this is not true.
If so, it happened somewhere I didn't read. (Which is possible. I don't claim to have read everything Overlord.) Do you have a source?
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Old 2018-04-17, 03:04   Link #8250
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
From what I found at reddit overlord, Albedo is secretly gathering lv80+demons as her death squad to hunt down other supreme beings because she hated them for abandoned them, which is clearly contradicted to what Ainz wanted. She even try to recruit Pandora Actor... although I am not sure whether PA accept her offer or not.

Correct me if this is not true.
not really, Albedo's aim when she assemble that assassin squad was to eliminated any guild members, who may show up in NW and can be the threat to Ainz's absolute rule in Nazarick
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Old 2018-04-17, 05:55   Link #8251
Sixth
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
The point, which you seem to have missed entirely, is that it wasn't a statement of fact from an omniscient narrator. It was a description of Nimble's thoughts on seeing Mare. He just didn't guess Mare's gender. The emperor made the same mistake. It seems a lot of the author's "mistakes" are just your poor reading comprehension.



If so, it happened somewhere I didn't read. (Which is possible. I don't claim to have read everything Overlord.) Do you have a source?
As I said I got those from reddit overlord section and yeah I don't save the link of that thread.
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Old 2018-04-17, 11:45   Link #8252
Velsy
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Just a minor question

Are Shadow Demons still stationed at Carne village ?. Its been attacked twice now and not seen a peep from them, are they just not showing themselves and relaying information ? or have they been withdrawn ?
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Old 2018-04-17, 22:28   Link #8253
Snowbold
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I can't wait for the next volume so we get some clarity on some topics here. Hopefully something about Albedo hit squad and that the girl beside Ainz survives (that's just me) in the Roble Holy Kingdom.

I also can't wait for Nazarick to move on Slane. Of course, once they confirm they were the ones that attacked Shalltear, all hell will break loose.
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Old 2018-04-18, 10:50   Link #8254
pervypig
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^ Don't count on it. The troll-thor was said to have planned 20 volume for Overlord. But at the rate it's going, it's prolly gonna hit 30 before we see any real development.
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Old 2018-04-18, 16:58   Link #8255
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One question, that intermission of volume 12 is a fanfic or is it part of the story?
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Old 2018-04-19, 05:53   Link #8256
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by testeottilio View Post
One question, that intermission of volume 12 is a fanfic or is it part of the story?
If you mean the sex filled one... it's fanfic.
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Old 2018-04-19, 06:14   Link #8257
Sixth
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^ Don't count on it. The troll-thor was said to have planned 20 volume for Overlord. But at the rate it's going, it's prolly gonna hit 30 before we see any real development.
You really hate the author...

By the way, does other guardians or npc feared or respect Pandora Actor? Is Pandora Actor stronger than other guardians or he is the weakest?

Last edited by Sixth; 2018-04-19 at 10:41.
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Old 2018-04-19, 17:29   Link #8258
testeottilio
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
If you mean the sex filled one... it's fanfic.
So Calca and Kelart are not being used for the reproduction of demi-humans?

Spoiler for This did not happened?:


This did not happened?
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Old 2018-04-19, 17:41   Link #8259
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it is a fanfic
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Old 2018-04-19, 18:12   Link #8260
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Sixth View Post
By the way, does other guardians or npc feared or respect Pandora Actor? Is Pandora Actor stronger than other guardians or he is the weakest?
Fear isn't exactly the case, but Pandora's Actor is one of the three most intelligent members of Nazarick, on par with Albedo and Demiurge. That alone makes him a force to be reckoned with. He can also turn into any of the 41 Supreme Beings and use 80% of their original powers. So he's definitely not the weakest.

Thing is, PA is Ainz' own creation. He is the most loyal to Ainz by far and would be the last one to betray him, so there's no reason to worry about him.

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Originally Posted by testeottilio View Post
So Calca and Kelart are not being used for the reproduction of demi-humans?

Spoiler for This did not happened?:


This did not happened?
No, it didn't. The queen was killed when Fake-abaoth used her as a club and that's the last we heard of her.
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