AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > No Game No Life

Notices

View Poll Results: No Game No Life - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 37 52.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 17 23.94%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 19.72%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 2.82%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.41%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-06-23, 22:57   Link #181
chadrew
Fullmetal Ballchemist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Well, they're still young people, nonsmokers, and not overweight. It's not too much of a stretch that they'd be able to do this much.
chadrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 03:37   Link #182
Iron Maw
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
You have to consider the fact that the story will screech to a halt the moment Sora and Shiro loses.
Sure, it can be seen as them wrecking the competition, but there's a reason for that, starting from Tet outright choosing them, to the insurmountable odds [ ] put themselves into.
This isn't really a good excuse. Most conflicts in fiction are made of battles that heroes can't lose. Yet, they still do, and bounce back most of the time. If NGNL's author cannot write a scenario where [ ] is beaten without the story coming to a close, then just shows the limits his or her's writing ability. I certainly don't believe this case even if I agree that some of duo's victories have been questionable. Because if nothing else author here has been shown very creative in both the types and designs of games that [ ] faces along with how they overcame them. So when you use meta logic as a crutch like this, it comes across as to me as saying that the original writer isn't as imaginative as we have been lead to believe.

To me [ ] isn't incapable of loss for such shallow reasons, but due to the fact it's core characteristic of them. Neither Sora or Shiro by themselves are perfect, but [ ] is to a degree at least. That's because when the siblings are together they make up for many of their own individual shortcoming while amplifying their best traits, something the show has constantly hammered to it's viewers. And for that [ ] can work, or at least I can buy it can.

It's not as if I don't expect [ ] not to reach their end goals at this story climax, but one should expect some setbacks, road blocks, anxieties and surprises no matter how small. Why? Obviously because a story (especially one that deals with game of all things) isn't interesting without some form of adversity. For me NGNL has done a good job on that front while remaining true to [ ]'s concepts without going to far. Save for some of the earlier games everything else our intrepid MC's has been hard fought for and they have become more impressive because of it.
Iron Maw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 05:01   Link #183
Marcus H.
Toji Affairs Secretary
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
Sorry if I seem to be undermining [ ]. That's not what I meant.
__________________
Have a nice talk with the Animesuki forum members on Discord! (Promise, we won't bite!) Drop me or RRW a PM for the link!

Spring 2018: Amanchu! Advance (9/12) and Wotaku ni Koi wa Muzukashii.
Carryover from Winter 2018: Cardcaptor Sakura Clear Card Arc (16/22) and Toji no Miko.
See the Toji no Miko Wiki Project in action!
Summer 2018: Hataraku Saibou (1/1c) and Kyoto Teramachi Sanjou no Holmes (1/1c).


Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 34. Completed: 336. Plan to watch: 31.

Marcus H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 07:29   Link #184
quigonkenny
Sav'aaq!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
This isn't really a good excuse. Most conflicts in fiction are made of battles that heroes can't lose. Yet, they still do, and bounce back most of the time. If NGNL's author cannot write a scenario where [ ] is beaten without the story coming to a close, then just shows the limits his or her's writing ability. I certainly don't believe this case even if I agree that some of duo's victories have been questionable. Because if nothing else author here has been shown very creative in both the types and designs of games that [ ] faces along with how they overcame them. So when you use meta logic as a crutch like this, it comes across as to me as saying that the original writer isn't as imaginative as we have been lead to believe.
Maybe, but that doesn't mean the author has to have a scenario in the story where they lose and bounce back. "Cannot write a scenario" and "does not write a scenario" aren't the same thing, even if they appear that way to the reader. It's his story, so we have to judge it on its own merits, rather than how we might like/expect it.
__________________
FGO Info: (JP) 055835281 | クワイガンケニー ==== (EN) 952525630 | quigonkenny
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 09:21   Link #185
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Anyway to change the discussion a little, any comment regarding the two checkov's guns that have been loaded and have yet to be fired?

The first one is Fi. Sora said that he needed her in order to win this game, however so far she did nothing but observe and, as she said, she cannot use her magic in the virtual world.
Whatever can she be needed for? One thing that comes to my mind is that she can observe Ino cheating, but a victory by default by catching the warbeasts cheating wouldn't be very satisfying wouldn't it?
Another possibility is that she will take the same role that Yuki Nagato took in the strategy game episode of Haruhi Suzumiya. Perhaps she can interfere with Ino himself preventing him from giving instructions to Izuna.

The other element is Steph that was mysteriously ordered to do "something" but we are completely unaware of what. Considering that orders given as a result of winning a game cannot force the loser to do what she can't possibly do, whatever is Sora planning to use Steph for?
Of course considering that Steph is the weakest member of the team it is safe to assume that Izuna will almost completely dismiss her as a non-threat. However an order still can't transform her into a superplayer and the "fake to be on Izuna's side" card has been played already.
Anyway considering that Sora took good care as to prevent the warbeasts from hearing the order it is safe to assume that the Steph card can only work if the warbeasts aren't expecting it.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 09:29   Link #186
kagato3
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Anyway to change the discussion a little, any comment regarding the two checkov's guns that have been loaded and have yet to be fired?

The first one is Fi. Sora said that he needed her in order to win this game, however so far she did nothing but observe and, as she said, she cannot use her magic in the virtual world.
Whatever can she be needed for? One thing that comes to my mind is that she can observe Ino cheating, but a victory by default by catching the warbeasts cheating wouldn't be very satisfying wouldn't it?
Another possibility is that she will take the same role that Yuki Nagato took in the strategy game episode of Haruhi Suzumiya. Perhaps she can interfere with Ino himself preventing him from giving instructions to Izuna.

The other element is Steph that was mysteriously ordered to do "something" but we are completely unaware of what. Considering that orders given as a result of winning a game cannot force the loser to do what she can't possibly do, whatever is Sora planning to use Steph for?
Of course considering that Steph is the weakest member of the team it is safe to assume that Izuna will almost completely dismiss her as a non-threat. However an order still can't transform her into a superplayer and the "fake to be on Izuna's side" card has been played already.
Fi being there observing already throws a huge spanner in the works as she is not subject to the memory wipe if the warbeasts win or Sora's group to forfeit if it was an imposable game.
__________________
Higurashi: Its a bit like watching a trainwreck, except you keep getting to see different trains wrecking with roughly the same passengers, into a variety of different objects. Also, the trains are driven by monkeys. On LSD.
click to play
kagato3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 09:55   Link #187
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Fi being there observing already throws a huge spanner in the works as she is not subject to the memory wipe if the warbeasts win or Sora's group to forfeit if it was an imposable game.
True, but that doesn't help Kuhaku winning. At best it will be useful to those that will challenge the warbeasts later. And besides I thought the elves already know what kind of game the warbeasts are playing. Ino shouldn't be overly concerned.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 09:57   Link #188
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 32
They might know what it is (virtual game, perhaps virtual shooter), but they likely didn't know the rules since it was said they didn't know how to win. If they know the rules, and see how it's played fully (especially with Blank doing so well), they could formulate a plan that could actually work.

Plus, this is Sora. I'm sure he has some crazy "100 steps ahead" strategy in place for Fi.
GDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 13:22   Link #189
quigonkenny
Sav'aaq!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
True, but that doesn't help Kuhaku winning. At best it will be useful to those that will challenge the warbeasts later. And besides I thought the elves already know what kind of game the warbeasts are playing. Ino shouldn't be overly concerned.
It certainly could help them to win. Without Fii observing, they might have cheated much earlier and more overtly, since a mere human might not be able to pick it up. Fii being present causes the Werebeasts to limit their own options for fear of the auto-fail of being caught cheating, or the even worse fate of having the Elves figure out their cheating method and learn to counteract it.
__________________
FGO Info: (JP) 055835281 | クワイガンケニー ==== (EN) 952525630 | quigonkenny
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 23:09   Link #190
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
It certainly could help them to win. Without Fii observing, they might have cheated much earlier and more overtly, since a mere human might not be able to pick it up. Fii being present causes the Werebeasts to limit their own options for fear of the auto-fail of being caught cheating, or the even worse fate of having the Elves figure out their cheating method and learn to counteract it.
The warbeasts have already won 4 games against elves, obviously whatever cheat they use they are sure that elves cannot notice them.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 23:28   Link #191
Chase
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Man im annoyed how steph is used in this show. This episode was fun for the most part I guess. I mean, I get some enjoyment out this anime but it eats away at me at the same time.
__________________
Currently Playing:
Devil May Cry 4:SE
The Witch and the Hundred Knight
Battlefield 4
Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-24, 23:29   Link #192
quigonkenny
Sav'aaq!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The warbeasts have already won 4 games against elves, obviously whatever cheat they use they are sure that elves cannot notice them.
Not necessarily. They won four games against the Elves with said Elves inside the game and "locked away" from their magic. They can cheat all they want outside the game as long as they make sure not to rouse their Elf opponent. And if the Elves wanted official witnesses, all the Werebeasts would have to do is decline, which is perfectly within their rights as the challenged.

Fii is an observer who is completely out of their control. She's not in the game and thus retains full command of her magic, nor is she an official witness whose memory can be wiped as part of the bet. No matter who wins, she will be able to keep whatever data she obtains and do with it as she wishes. If they want to win back the memories of their tactics, they have to challenge, which allows her the option to decline, or possibly even use the newly gathered data to defeat them

As Sora said a few episodes ago, "Checkmate".
__________________
FGO Info: (JP) 055835281 | クワイガンケニー ==== (EN) 952525630 | quigonkenny
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-25, 07:41   Link #193
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Not necessarily. They won four games against the Elves with said Elves inside the game and "locked away" from their magic.
You don't know that. As far as we know they might have let elven observers as well. I'd find it very strange that they'd make a special exceptions for Imanity, especially when it's so much in grand scale that they even have a huge stadium for that.

There's also the fact that the warbeasts' position is that they win because they "can read people's mind". If they declined any kind of observers they'd just make everyone even more suspicious that they are in fact just cheating. That would become even more suspicious if they'd let thousands of humans in to observe but refuse any elf! What would be their excuse?

Add to that that the fact that Ino is well aware that an elf is watching him and he still cheats while being confident that Imanity can't possibly win.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-25, 09:08   Link #194
quigonkenny
Sav'aaq!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
You don't know that. As far as we know they might have let elven observers as well. I'd find it very strange that they'd make a special exceptions for Imanity, especially when it's so much in grand scale that they even have a huge stadium for that.

There's also the fact that the warbeasts' position is that they win because they "can read people's mind". If they declined any kind of observers they'd just make everyone even more suspicious that they are in fact just cheating. That would become even more suspicious if they'd let thousands of humans in to observe but refuse any elf! What would be their excuse?

Add to that that the fact that Ino is well aware that an elf is watching him and he still cheats while being confident that Imanity can't possibly win.
Of course the Werebeasts are cheating. The Elves know that. They just don't know how, and without that knowledge they might as well not know at all.

And you've damaged your own argument. If they're willing to let a whole audience full of Imanity watch the game (they're only Imanity, after all), then why does he give a crap about one little Elf? Not even "one little Elf", really, but one little Elven puppet.

Think about why the Elves would have wanted to send observers anyway. So they can figure out the Werebeasts' cheat, counteract it, then cheat themselves. "Denying observers as powerful as the Elves is only natural. Mind reading can only do so much, after all", is all Ino would have to say. "He knows we're planning to cheat!" is what the Elves would think. And that's if the Elves even believed the Werebeasts had such an ability in the first place. The Elves remember them from before the 10 Oaths (some of them personally, no doubt), when they probably didn't even pretend to have such an ability. Their Blood Destruction would have been much more useful back then, and the one-on-one observation needed for their "mind reading" would have been impossible in pitched combat. And Werebeasts are only the lowly 14th Exceed, after all. Why would they have such an OP ability that the vaunted 7th Exceed do not?
__________________
FGO Info: (JP) 055835281 | クワイガンケニー ==== (EN) 952525630 | quigonkenny

Last edited by quigonkenny; 2014-06-25 at 09:19.
quigonkenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-06-25, 09:38   Link #195
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
You've damaged your own argument. If they're willing to let a whole audience full of Imanity watch the game (they're only Imanity, after all), then why does he give a crap about one little Elf?
Did I? If you really had understood my argument you'd know that my point is that Ino isn't particularly bothered by the fact that an elf is watching him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Not even "one little Elf", really, but one little Elven puppet.
Oh no this is totally wrong. He first sensed magic, then he immediately looked at Kurami. Do you think he believes that Kurami can use magic herself? Moreover he recognized her and called her by name and surname. Do you think he doesn't know that she's a slave of the elves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
And think about why the Elves would have wanted to send observers anyway. So they can figure out the Werebeasts' cheat, counteract it, then cheat themselves. "Denying observers as powerful as the Elves is only natural. Mind reading can only do so much, after all", is all Ino would have to say.
The Elves would want to send observers to reduce the chances of cheat being used, it's a very reasonable request. Observer interfering with an ongoing game would be an infraction so all that Ino could say is "I don't want elven observers, because I fear said observers are going to cheat". That becomes a stall:

"I don't want observers because they are going to cheat" VS "You don't want observers because you are planning to cheat".
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.