F/SN UBW TV - Episode 20 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[bahamut zero]

Fate-Shirou is the most likely to turn into Archer, been known for ages dude.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Archer isn't from the Fate route. Fate-Shirou won't become Archer. But there are probably aspects of that route, that are similar to Archer's Grail War.

Avalon has enough mana capacity for a single Excalibur unleash. If Archer still has Avalon in him he would be able to Excalibeam without dying.

Fate-Shirou is the only Shirou who knows anout Avalon and have lost it(by returning it to Saber), therefore Fate-Shirou is going to be Archer.

[Rising Dragon]

IIRC the word of god is that none of the Shirous in the three playable routes--Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, Heaven's Feel--become the Counter Guardian EMIYA, only that the Shirou from the Fate route is the one that most closely resembles him. If that were the case, Archer would no longer have Avalon within him, as he would've returned it to Saber.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

IIRC the word of god is that none of the Shirous in the three playable routes--Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, Heaven's Feel--become the Counter Guardian EMIYA, only that the Shirou from the Fate route is the one that most closely resembles him. If that were the case, Archer would no longer have Avalon within him, as he would've returned it to Saber.

Illya route CONFIRMED

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

I feel like I have to hop out and to explain this.

Archer has the class ability Independent Action. At rank B, it would allow him to be


It is suspected that it's not his born ability, but his cloak, made from the Holy Shroud of a saint, that oppose the external environment. It allows him to reject the force of the world that is trying to send "unnatural beings" away.

Source: Fate/side material

...I know all of this? I AM a franchise veteran, otherwise I would not be here. Not sure why you feel the need to explain this to me.

[Phoenix6000]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Spoiler for .:

Nice to know I wasn't the only one thinking of that scene.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Mangonel

*I can't recall if it has a small recovery boost without Saber's presence or if the reason Kiritsugu gave it to Shirou was merely as a token just-in-case knowing it would certainly summon Saber should he ever get involved in the Grail war.

It does heal without Saber's presence, just not as much. That's the only reason Kiritsugu gave it to him, was to give him every possible chance to survive. Although that "just-in-case" may have figured in to him letting Shirou keep it.

Originally Posted by iamandragon

Archer has the class ability Independent Action.

Still, if he uses up all his mana, he'll disappear. Having a Master anchors him to the world, but he still needs a source or reservoir of mana to manifest in it. IA limits the need for the former, but does nothing to stop the requirement of the latter, and a continuous absense of either will eventually cause any Servant to disappear. Wasn't one of the Bad Ends caused by Saber using up all her mana on using Excalibur, then disappearing?

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

It does heal without Saber's presence, just not as much. That's the only reason Kiritsugu gave it to him, was to give him every possible chance to survive. Although that "just-in-case" may have figured in to him letting Shirou keep it.


Still, if he uses up all his mana, he'll disappear. Having a Master anchors him to the world, but he still needs a source or reservoir of mana to manifest in it. IA limits the need for the former, but does nothing to stop the requirement of the latter, and a continuous absense of either will eventually cause any Servant to disappear. Wasn't one of the Bad Ends caused by Saber using up all her mana on using Excalibur, then disappearing?

Remember what Saber does to recover mana? Eat, sleep, rest. It is possible for Archer to slightly recover his mana. Also, it's unknown if Archer has any mana-restoring swords up his sleeve...

[Dengar]

From what I understand, Archer comes from a timeline where events are very similar to fate route. What the differences are, no one really knows. But we know he returned Avalon to Saber, as well as the fact that Illya survived the events of the HGW (but not for very long).

[Shyni]

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There's something amazing about a guy trying to stick to his ideals while fighting against the thing that represents them. Which happens to also be himself.

[iamandragon]

Just re-watched the episode again. Love it when Shirou said "This body is made up of swords" and Archer's expression----the way they animated the moment that Shirou has learned and understood his very own Unlimited Blade Works is priceless and flawless.

[monster]

This is exactly what I wanted to see. Shirou is finally coming to grips with what Archer is saying while still being able to hold on to his ideal. Now that is a great show of determination compared to the last episode.

And I don't recall Shinji's fate, but if there is any possibility of a change, I actually hope he can survive this.

[Levani]

And I don't recall Shinji's fate, but if there is any possibility of a change, I actually hope he can survive this.

Spoiler for UBW SPOILER:

He does survive in the VN. This is the only route where he remains alive.

[monster]

Oh, very good. He's just become too pathetic that killing him seems like a waste of effort. And it seems Lancer shares my opinion.

[Gaulek]

Nice similarities between Saber and Shirou

[Rev Okkin]

You forgot the pulling of the sword

This is really a "penultimate" episode.
All the subtle foreshadowing, visual cues, body languages are all coming together in this one.
Exactly as I expected ever since Nasu told about his new writing style.
Good job on ya, mate.

Also, good job on Miura placing in Last Stardust. Even Nasu was impressed.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

Avalon has enough mana capacity for a single Excalibur unleash. If Archer still has Avalon in him he would be able to Excalibeam without dying.

Fate-Shirou is the only Shirou who knows anout Avalon and have lost it(by returning it to Saber), therefore Fate-Shirou is going to be Archer.

No? Never thought of a possibility that Archer comes from a Grail War that shares events with some of the three routes but was overall different?

It doesn't matter whether the chances in Fate are the highest for Shirou to become Archer. Archer's Grail War already differs because he couldn't save Saber, which Fate-Shirou did. Not to mention, thanks to Last Episode, we know Shirou went to Avalon, not to the Throne of Heroes.

Q: During the last part of Sakura’s route, Shirou was saved by the tiny bit of residual mana in Tohsaka Rin’s pendant. Also, it seems like Rin knew about the difference in residual mana between the thing he got back from Archer and the thing he was holding, so could Sakura’s route be the one in which Shirou becomes a Heroic Spirit after all? Or could you tell us the route(s) in which Shirou doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit?

A: I’ll just say now that he doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit in any of the routes, but the possibility is still present in all of them as well. Basically, the probability of it happening is almost zero.

[HandofFate]

I liked when Archer explained a bit about how Shirou is tapping into the experiences of the weapons he's tracing.

iirc, this info is just stuff nasu mentioned in Q&As and it was never really addressed directly in the VNs. could be wrong though.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

Remember what Saber does to recover mana? Eat, sleep, rest. It is possible for Archer to slightly recover his mana.

That's actually just to mitigate the loss of mana, not to recover mana. It's why her condition continues to deteriorate after using Excalibur in the Fate route, despite sleeping and eating a lot.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by GDB

That's actually just to mitigate the loss of mana, not to recover mana. It's why her condition continues to deteriorate after using Excalibur in the Fate route, despite sleeping and eating a lot.

To add to this, Saber is a special case, because she was infused with the mana of a dragon. Merely breathing already naturally generates mana for her. She can't mitigate the mana loss like other Servants though, since she cannot dematerialize.