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Old 2024-12-20, 11:04   Link #21
Renegade334
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Note: MS recently removed the TPM 2.0 requirement (adoption numbers probably not as high as they'd have liked) for upgrading to W11, but they say that if you still go through with it, you are on your own and they will not take responsibility for any system instability resulting from the upgrade.
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Old 2024-12-20, 23:22   Link #22
scififan
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Originally Posted by Renegade334 View Post
Note: MS recently removed the TPM 2.0 requirement (adoption numbers probably not as high as they'd have liked) for upgrading to W11, but they say that if you still go through with it, you are on your own and they will not take responsibility for any system instability resulting from the upgrade.
I still don't see any benefit from TMP 2.0. Someone said adding password to BIOS/UEFI is as good as TMP 2.0. To install Linux distro, the TMP setting has to be disabled. The BitLocker feature only locks out the normal users. I heard the claims that the power users already figured out how to break the BitLocker encryption.
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Old 2025-01-07, 12:12   Link #23
Renegade334
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I helped buy a new laptop (HP 15S with, of course, Windows 11 on it) for my mother yesterday (since we're in the sales period) and I spent the day configuring it, setting up programs, transferring files...the usual whole nine yards of fresh ownership.

And I must say...I'll stay on Windows 10, thank you very much. I really dislike this inexorable oversimplification of OS UI (WTF did they do to the file context menu and why must I go to shell:appsfolder in Windows Explorer to be finally able to create app shortcut icons on my desktop???? I'm told I should be able to do that from the start menu with drag-and-drop but it doesn't work, FFS) and this decision to scatter options/functions across ten or so different areas (like languages/regional settings) just rankles me. In ten years' time, the Windows UX will be dumbed down to the level --and visual flair-- of Playmobil toys.
No, seriously, there are times where I wish Microsoft would backtrack to the Vista visual design. Whatever you have to say about the OS itself and its shortcomings, Windows Aero was a visual/graphical feast for the eyes, at least for me. At least it flexed its graphical muscle, while its successors seem to go down the "I wouldn't want to confuse you, sir" path.

Hell, I was initially quite skeptical of Windows 10's tile-based start menu (which did away with a lot of the classic start menu style and format), but within a couple of weeks, I had completely embraced the change by overloading the menu with tile shortcuts to every folder or app I frequently visited or used. I even came to appreciate the widget-like live tiles; what redeemed it in my eyes was its customizability - I could tweak and reorganize it as I pleased. But Windows 11's? For crying out loud...

Small pet peeve: I'm still not used to the windows start menu icon being in the middle of the taskbar. Every time I try to open it, I end up accidentally clicking on the weather widget. Thankfully, there's the Windows key on the keyboard.
P.S. Yes, I'm aware that the taskbar icon group and start button can be moved to the left - I've since switched, but I was --unsuccessfully-- trying to adapt to the new alignment and get on with the new design language as a whole.
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Old 2025-01-15, 18:46   Link #24
Renegade334
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Something that others might find useful: on Windows 10, press "Start" (Windows Key), go to "Settings", then "Update & Security" then go to the "Activation" tab. Make sure there is the following mention: "Windows is activated with a digital license linked to your account". (this means you're logging into Windows using a Microsoft online account rather than a local account) This opens a new way of getting Windows 11 without spending a dollar. More about this further down in this post.

Now, open the command-line interface (keyboard shortcut: press "Windows key" and "A" simultaneously) and type "slmgr /dli", which will open a small window detailing your license type. If you see "RETAIL channel", you're all set; if you see "OEM_DM channel", the discussion ends here as the hardware-bound license cannot be transferred.

So! In my case, I originally had a Windows 7 Ultimate (genuine retail) installation, which I upgraded to Windows 10 Pro when that OS came out. During that time-limited free upgrade process, the W7 product key was replaced on W10 by a generic key (which you can find in regedit at the following location: Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Win dows NT\CurrentVersion\SoftwareProtectionPlatform, then look up the BackupProductKeyDefault entry).

Caveat emptor: this generic key cannot be used to activate a new Windows 10/11 install! However, if you happen to own a retail Windows 10 product key (either store-bought or procured from an online marketplace), you can still use that to activate your new W11 install, since they share the same activation/licensing system/algorithm. Windows 7 and 8.1 keys, on the other hand, cannot be used to activate Windows 11 as they are from an older cycle/generation.

However, since my W10 license is account-linked as I've detailed at the beginning of this post, I can install W11 on a completely new rig, skip the "insert the product key" part and activate Windows just by logging into my Microsoft online account.

It is however advised to do the following on your old PC before sunsetting it:
- Go to cmd.exe and type the two commands:
slmgr /upk
slmgr /cpky

The first command deactivates the product key and the second scrubs it from the registry.

Should an issue arise, use the command line slui 4 to generate an activation ID, which you'll use to contact a Microsoft representative by phone and negotiate the activation of your new PC. Just precise that it's all new hardware and, no, your old PC won't be used anymore (your digital license is for one PC at all times).



Why am I making this post at all?
1. I'm looking to build a new PC (a tentative Ryzen 7 7700X + X670E sleeper build, but it remains a fluid situation) this year. My current rig gave me a VERY nasty scare earlier this month with a possibly deteriorating RAM slot on the motherboard, and the DRAM_LED warning indicator now briefly lights up during the first second of the boot process. As painful as it is for me to think about it, I shouldn't expect my already venerable (admirably long-lived, I must say) hardware to last me another ten years; I have to upgrade at a time when hardware has become hideously and unreasonably expensive and it is in my best interest to save money wherever and whenever possible (I'm bargain-hunting on Amazon right now and Jesus Christ I feel the pain of that price tag all the way down to my gonads!). With Windows, I'm fortunately all set, but alas, no joy for Office: I will have to buy a new license (149 Euros for Home & Student perpetual retail license, not that 99-Euros-a-year Office 365 paid subscription cr**).
2. There are RUMORS that the offer to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 for free will end this year. Yeah, Microsoft is really anxious to boost those W11 adoption numbers and they've just announced end of support (i.e. no new features to be added, etc) for Office 365 apps on W10 around October this year (but pls pls pls move on to Windows 11 and you'll get that O365 support back!). That said, do keep in mind that MS did maintain the "upgrade from W7 to W10" option far longer than expected before finally removing it; miracles could still happen.
...And, yes, the login trick reference above will no longer be available should that free upgrade offer get the proverbial boot.
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Old 2025-01-16, 01:22   Link #25
larethian
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Office sub had a price hike of nearly 50% in my country sometime last year that I decided to cancel the sub. Didn't use much last year anyway and I could live with google docs and sheets for now.
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Old 2025-01-16, 05:20   Link #26
Renegade334
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If you have a Microsoft (online) account, you still have access to the free but web browser-based Office suite, but the apps (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook) have a LOT of restrictions, like maximum document filesize, reduced range of formatting options and chart types, no macro support, loss of certain Excel data analysis tools and, of course, there is no offline mode available (and the files have to saved on OneDrive, though you can download them back to your PC afterwards) since it's all web-based.

But yeah, paid O365 subscription is a no-go for me. I like perpetual ownership (though technically I don't own the software, just the license to use it ), thank you very much.
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Old 2025-01-16, 17:21   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Renegade334 View Post
Something that others might find useful: on Windows 10, press "Start" (Windows Key), go to "Settings", then "Update & Security" then go to the "Activation" tab. Make sure there is the following mention: "Windows is activated with a digital license linked to your account". (this means you're logging into Windows using a Microsoft online account rather than a local account) This opens a new way of getting Windows 11 without spending a dollar. More about this further down in this post.

Now, open the command-line interface (keyboard shortcut: press "Windows key" and "A" simultaneously) and type "slmgr /dli", which will open a small window detailing your license type. If you see "RETAIL channel", you're all set; if you see "OEM_DM channel", the discussion ends here as the hardware-bound license cannot be transferred.

So! In my case, I originally had a Windows 7 Ultimate (genuine retail) installation, which I upgraded to Windows 10 Pro when that OS came out. During that time-limited free upgrade process, the W7 product key was replaced on W10 by a generic key (which you can find in regedit at the following location: Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Win dows NT\CurrentVersion\SoftwareProtectionPlatform, then look up the BackupProductKeyDefault entry).

Caveat emptor: this generic key cannot be used to activate a new Windows 10/11 install! However, if you happen to own a retail Windows 10 product key (either store-bought or procured from an online marketplace), you can still use that to activate your new W11 install, since they share the same system. Windows 7 and 8.1 keys, on the other hand, cannot be used to activate Windows 11 as they are from an older cycle/generation.

However, since my W10 license is account-linked as I detailed at the beginning of this point, I can install W11 on a completely new rig, skip the "insert the product key" part and activate Windows just by logging into my Microsoft online account.

It is however advised to do the following on your old PC before sunsetting it:
- Go to cmd.exe and type the two commands:
slmgr /upk
slmgr /cpky

The first command deactivates the product key and the second scrubs it from the registry.

Should an issue arise, use the command line slui 4 to generate an activation ID, which you'll use to contact a Microsoft representative by phone and negotiate the activation of your new PC. Just precise that it's all new hardware and, no, your old PC won't be used anymore (your digital license is for one PC at all times).
I also have a Windows 7 Pro retail box which i purchase back in 2013-2014, and used it to activate Windows 10 Pro on a local account (only used online connection for authentication of the license, didn't create a Microsoft account yet).

Not sure if the license is permanently linked or not somehow, but when i use the prompt "slmgr /dli" to see the license type, it shows me "OEM_DM channel".

I wonder how it happened? (was it because i used the "P" stuff to activate my Office 2019 which somehow also changed my Windows license type?)

But if i do a fresh install of Windows 10 now and use my Windows 7 Pro license to activate it Windows 10 again and then upgrade to Windows 11 and then link a Microsoft account to it, would it work?

Edit: Just to add, i have a 11+ year old PC using Intel i7-4770, 8 GB RAM and no dedicated GPU.
Meaning i would have to upgrade my PC as well eventually before October 2025 (or switch to some Linux distro).
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Old 2025-01-16, 23:13   Link #28
Renegade334
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OEM means the license is permanently tied to the very computer you first activated your copy of Windows on. It's possible you accidentally bought the OEM version of the Home or Pro Edition of W7; typically, OEMs are cheaper than their MAK-type (Multiple Activation Key) "true retail" counterpart and some computer shops gladly sold them to attract more clients looking for a better bargain; this practice still continues to this day (some online marketplaces even hawk OEM licenses as if they were MAK retail versions, which is either deceitful or irresponsible).

The plastic box for Windows 7 installation DVDs did not overtly mention "OEM" on its faces or sides, but the DVD itself usually had a label saying "Licensed for distribution only with a new PC", which was a dead giveaway of the license type.

The OEM license is tied to your hardware configuration, with the primary identifier being your motherboard's internal ID. It's highly likely that, when you first upgraded from W7 to W10, Microsoft saved in their database your hardware configuration for future reference. OEM therefore comes with a big downside: imagine your PC completely breaks down (let's say that the MB short-circuited due to bad voltage)...welp, your OEM license just died in sympathy. Doesn't matter if you only enjoyed it for a day or a year or a decade, it's now as dead as your old computer. Your replacement would force you to purchase a new license. On the other hand, MAK retail versions would allow you to pop the DVD into the new rig and activate it (a maximum of five times IIRC; after that, you'd have to convince a Microsoft representative that, no, you're not trying to cheat the EULA by installing Windows on more machines that you're allowed to - just one at any given time).

There was another failure point: if you kept the motherboard but changed everything else (CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD), Microsoft's automated activation protocol could decide, "hey, it's not the same machine anymore" and would deactivate your Windows. You'd then have to phone a MS activation representative and argue your case with him/her to fix your license.


So...if you are eligible for Windows 11 and take advantage of the upgrade offer, the installer will convert your W10 license to a W11 one and update your little list of owned licenses on their servers. This daisy chain of OS upgrades will, I must remind you, only work if you're upgrading the same machine over and over.
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Old 2025-01-18, 12:11   Link #29
Renegade334
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Just a small heads-up: the aforementioned blog post hinting at an end to the free upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 has since been deleted by Microsoft and they've told PCMag that it had "contained inaccurate information".

Free W11 upgrade remains safe.
...For now.


Also, on October 2024, there'll be extended security updates made available for Windows 10...but it'll be a paid option. To the tune of around $30 for an extra year of support.
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Old 2025-01-20, 15:15   Link #30
Huh...?
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Old 2025-01-21, 11:46   Link #31
Renegade334
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^-- Platform-locking has become quite important in their market dominance strategy and while I do not have any statistics to back it up (not really something I keep an eye on), Office (esp. O365), Azure and other online services have become the real breadwinner for Microsoft (this is, of course, excluding their hardware and gaming divisions, where I expect the picture to be more...complicated). That, I believe, is where they'll be a lot stricter in their antipiracy measures, now and thenceforwards.

Speaking of which, as an early birthday present, the Lian Li Lancool III full tower mid-tower case for my new personal rig has just arrived and holy mother of Raptor Jesus is that thing big--
That's what she said.

TL;DR…
hardwaregasm...and dilemmas
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I have long pondered transplanting my current SSD into the new case after running sysprep /generalize to cut down on easy prescriptions for system instability (typically caused by leftover drivers from the wrong vendor/ecosystem/generation -- which is guaranteed to happen to me, since I'm jumping from Intel to AMD) and then logging into my Microsoft user account to automatically reactivate Windows 10. Then, optionally, I'd take advantage of the newer hardware to freely upgrade Windows 10 to Windows 11 while keeping my old stuff around and preserving all tweaks and optimizations.
However, after giving it further thought, I've finally decided to tread the safer route and just go for a fresh Windows 11 install (with a bootable USB stick) with activation through Microsoft login. Next step would be to migrate the essentials and personal documents. Then, to quote a certain movie, "like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through". Clean slate, new workflow, new habits and new ways of thinking and doing things. A new era.

Hopefully I'll have all of the mounting and reprogramming done by this weekend, but that's presuming all ordered components shall come into my possession before then. Oh, and I need a handful of zip ties for cable management...

Wish me luck.

TL;DR…
solemnly press F on your keyboard
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TL;DR…
(developing)
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TL;DR…
MY BODY IS READY
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Last edited by Renegade334; 2025-02-09 at 22:59. Reason: Building the new rig - will it be an odyssey or a calvary? (pt.3!)
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Old 2025-01-25, 17:20   Link #32
Renegade334
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Hello to Animesuki from my new PC!



TL;DR…
Oh what a day!
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But let's get to the meat of the subject, shall we? This isn't just me gushing and bragging and feeling all kinds of relieved and satisfied:



And, as I wrote previously, my having a digital license linked to my Microsoft account dispensed me from entering a serial key during the install process. However, Windows failed to properly activate online and I had to run the activation troubleshooter afterwards (with the option "reactivate"), at which point the issue was resolved.

The best part? The activation is now tied to my new hardware - which means that I can create a local account and switch to it without Windows 11 deactivating - or so Microsoft claims it won't do.
EDIT---can confirm it doesn't deactivate; had to temporarily create a local account to fix my %UserProfile% folder name, which somehow showed my email account rather than my real name (since I'm transplanting files purloined from my old PC, it's best I preserved the URIs to avoid breaking something). Switching back and forth didn't do anything to the license (I know some people are worried that if you log out of your MS account, the license goes bust until you log back in, but that's not the case).

My Microsoft account dashboard still shows ownership of two devices/machines (old and new), but I'm afraid that going online on my previous rig would cause a licensing issue (the license is supposed to be bound to only one PC at a time, so I'll have to strip the old case of its PCIe wifi antennas...).

Cheers.

TL;DR…
ADDITIONAL/OFF-TOPIC STUFF
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Old 2025-02-01, 18:46   Link #33
CIRQUAN
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I did it. Installed Windows 11 few minutes ago. Didn`t plan on doing it in the middle of the night, but my pc crashed and I panicked.
Was moving some stuff from my phone to my pc, when pc suddenly froze and got blue screen. I panicked and tried restarting but it did nothing.
Opened up the pc and took out old M2 with Windows 10 on it and replaced it with empty one and installed Windows 11.
I forgot to check how much empty space I had left so that`s probably why it froze. :|
Just hope I can still salvage my stuff from there.

As for Windows 11, some things I like, others not so much. Like the look of it, looks clean and elegant. Love that Windows logo is in the middle.
Will try it out and post my impressions in future.

Spoiler for screenshot:
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Old 2025-02-02, 05:56   Link #34
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I was hoping to hold on to Windows 10 for a while longer, but hardware issues at the end of December forced my hand and I have to say, despite the hefty price tag, it may have been for the best, even though there's a lot of things about W11 to be annoyed about (UI, excessive reliance on live services, etc).

It pains me to say that, in my case, staying on Windows 10, with the hardware I previously had, was but a fool's hope. I only just now, after migrating to the Ryzen 7 9700x, realized just how much my near-geriatric i5-2500 was bottlenecking my GPU and limiting me. I was still on 8Gb of RAM and I eventually noticed how my RAM usage had crept up to the point where I was almost always using 7 of 8Gb (even after trimming the amount of background processes to a draconian point). I don't know how cluttered and inefficient Windows 10 has grown over time, but it was alarming.


That said, the Windows 11 activation process was remarkably painless despite the initial hiccup thanks to the account-linked digital Windows license system. The only thing that had me swearing under my breath during the installation was the LAN connection requirement, as the USB image didn't have the right wifi drivers. I had to bring a wifi repeater in the room, hook it up to my new PC with an RJ45 cable and let it rip...only to remember that it was possible, during that specific stage, to press SHIFT+F10 and enter the command line OOBE\BYPASSNRO to sidestep the network requirement. It's apparently also possible to trick Windows into letting you create a disconnected local account by entering a nonsensical login and password during the user creation/registration point.

Another pet peeve: afterwards, I had to uninstall a lot of the Gigabyte bloatware that Windows automatically downloaded for driver optimization; this manufacturer makes relatively good hardware (I might have preferred ASUS, but those guys feel rather overpriced these days and their image was tarnished this past year by a couple of scandals) but their software is, quite honestly, garbage. I kept the AMD drivers (except for Adrenalin), though.

Next up for this year (or maybe next January): finding a decent GPU that won't cost me a kidney or a limb.
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Old 2025-02-02, 06:38   Link #35
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Keeping an old rig as a backup for emergencies can be helpful at times. I haven't checked much of it that well, but something like Linux Mint, the Xfce Edition or the MATE Edition are quite light on resources. Congrats on the new rig though, I have loved AMD systems for many years now
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Old 2025-02-02, 08:47   Link #36
Renegade334
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Quote:
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Keeping an old rig as a backup for emergencies can be helpful at times. I haven't checked much of it that well, but something like Linux Mint, the Xfce Edition or the MATE Edition are quite light on resources. Congrats on the new rig though, I have loved AMD systems for many years now
Thanks. End of December, I could have sworn on all that is good and holy that I would stick it out for as long as I could with my old PC, but I could tell its performance was decreasing by the week and, at the end of it, by the day. I had microstuttering in games that previously worked fine, POST times that were increasing dramatically...it felt like I was due another crash in the coming weeks. Unfortunately, the old Asus P8P67LE B3 (LGA1155) motherboard (released in 2011!) is dying, so I can't use it as backup. The DIMM_B1 RAM slot is possibly compromised; back in December it wouldn't even recognize the DDR3 stick then it sort of came back to life, but I think there is irreparable damage to be spotted under a microscope. Even the CoolerMaster Gladiator 600 case is getting a bit ratty, so I have doubts on its reusability. Anyway, I can use my mother's new laptop (which I maintain for her) as backup - better than nothing.

Funny you're mentioning Mint, because I just downloaded the live .iso for it and used Rufus to put it on a thumb drive. It's part of my buildup of fallback options in the wake of my recent hardware misadventures. At this very moment, I'm using Macrium Reflect (which, unfortunately is no longer free, but there is a 30-day trial version available) to create bootable rescue medias so that I can make a backup of my Windows 11 main partition. I have been burned before (unfixable Windows corruptions) and had my thoughtless ass saved by bare-metal restores. As precaution, I've always kept on my desk a bootable CD+RW of StorageCraft --now Arcserve-- ShadowProtect Desktop Edition for disk imaging and restoring. Alas, it is now rather dated and I've been told that the newest versions have been steadily declining in quality and reliability, prompting me to look further afield for a replacement that offers good support for new forms of storage and software/OS architecture. If Macrium fails, I'll try CloneZilla. If not, Veeam - though I don't know if it offers freely-available bootable rescue medias.

As for my new PC, I'm having fun exploring the available tweaks, but I've decided to deactivate PBO and let the motherboard function as is; I mean, compared to my old rig, I've doubled the core count as well as the base and turbo clock speeds and quadrupled the thread count. It's far more than enough for me and everything is running smoothly. That said, the only thing I've decided to change is activating XMP1/EXPO1 to attain the right RAM clock speed for my DDR5-6000 sticks. Last week, I accidentally set my memory to XMP2 after noticing the lower voltage, but failed to notice it pared down my MT/s speed back to the base 5600. Stupid me. Also, turning on ErP: I accidentally discovered that it was possible to boot your PC (in S5 complete shutdown state) by accidentally clicking my mouse button or pressing a key on my keyboard...in the process nearly giving me a heart attack.

EDIT: hmmm. Yeah, Macrium at least allows me to back up a multi-partitioned disk in full, which SCSP didn't allow me to do right out of the box (had to restore each partition separately and I'd have to be very careful with the MBR restore). Hopefully I won't ever have a use for this, but maintaining contingencies can be a lifesaver when manure collides with the ventilation.
EDIT 2: it occurred to me that since I have a Kingston Fury Renegade .M2 NVME as home for my main partition, I'm entitled to a free copy of Acronis Home for Kingston, and I should have the ability to create a bootable rescue media there, too. Well, that's good to know.
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Old 2025-02-06, 16:57   Link #37
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Windows 10 Extended Security Updates (ESU):

- Will cost $61 per device for support between November 2025 and November 2026
- That cost will double for every year that comes thereafter.
- ESU membership terminates after three years, which means true end-of-life for W10 will arrive in November 2028 (unless I miscounted one year).
- Yearly ESUs are cumulative, which means if you buy ESU for year two, you are obligated to acquire the ESU for year one.

As of January 2025, Windows 10 commands a 60.33% share of the Windows market, while Windows 11 only has 36.65%. It's interesting to note that, periodically, W10 ownership increases over W11's; it was on the up-and-up till April 2024, then decreased all the way to October, at which point the figure climbed again. That trend reversed in December.

Since last year, the number of Windows 11s has risen by 8.82% while Windows 10's tally fell by 6.14%. Windows 7 (another much-beloved and missed Windows version) share remains somewhat stable at 2.24%.
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Last edited by Renegade334; 2025-02-06 at 17:08.
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Old 2025-02-09, 09:02   Link #38
Renegade334
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nun'yabiznehz
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIRQUAN View Post
Opened up the pc and took out old M2 with Windows 10 on it and replaced it with empty one and installed Windows 11.
I forgot to check how much empty space I had left so that`s probably why it froze. :|
Just hope I can still salvage my stuff from there.
Forgot to respond to this. In regards to SSDs, the rule of thumb is to never exceed the 80% use mark, because of the way the memory controller writes data to the cells in such a way that it'll maximize the device's lifespan (which is defined by the TBW figure - the maximum amount of TeraBytes that can be Written into all cells before they stop reliably retaining magnetic information). You will start to quickly lose performance once you cross that line. It happened to me on my old 128GB Samsung 850 Pro (my first-ever SSD) while I was tinkering with both Stable Diffusion 1.5 and a mod-laden Cities: Skylines. To make up for my relatively low RAM capacity (8GB DDR3), I had drastically expanded my pagefile and unknowingly yeeted my SSD into the no-go zone. BSODs ensued till I cloned my partition onto a 1TB Samsung 870 Evo, giving Windows and the MC a lot more room to breathe.
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