upgrade to Win 11?

[Renegade334]

Note: MS recently removed the TPM 2.0 requirement (adoption numbers probably not as high as they'd have liked) for upgrading to W11, but they say that if you still go through with it, you are on your own and they will not take responsibility for any system instability resulting from the upgrade.

[scififan]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Note: MS recently removed the TPM 2.0 requirement (adoption numbers probably not as high as they'd have liked) for upgrading to W11, but they say that if you still go through with it, you are on your own and they will not take responsibility for any system instability resulting from the upgrade.

I still don't see any benefit from TMP 2.0. Someone said adding password to BIOS/UEFI is as good as TMP 2.0. To install Linux distro, the TMP setting has to be disabled. The BitLocker feature only locks out the normal users. I heard the claims that the power users already figured out how to break the BitLocker encryption.

[Renegade334]

I helped buy a new laptop (HP 15S with, of course, Windows 11 on it) for my mother yesterday (since we're in the sales period) and I spent the day configuring it, setting up programs, transferring files...the usual whole nine yards of fresh ownership.

And I must say...I'll stay on Windows 10, thank you very much. I really dislike this inexorable oversimplification of OS UI (WTF did they do to the file context menu and why must I go to shell:appsfolder in Windows Explorer to be finally able to create app shortcut icons on my desktop???? I'm told I should be able to do that from the start menu with drag-and-drop but it doesn't work, FFS) and this decision to scatter options/functions across ten or so different areas (like languages/regional settings). In ten years' time, the Windows UX will be dumbed down to the level --and visual flair-- of Playmobil toys.
No, seriously, there are times where I wish Microsoft would backtrack to the Vista visual design. Whatever you have to say about the OS itself and its shortcomings, Windows Aero was a visual/graphical feast for the eyes, at least for me. At least it flexed its graphical muscle, while its successors seem to go down the "I wouldn't want to confuse you, sir" path.

Hell, I was initially quite skeptical of Windows 10's tile-based start menu (which did away with a lot of the classic start menu style and format), but within a couple of weeks, I had completely embraced the change by overloading the menu with tile shortcuts to every folder or app I frequently visited or used. I even came to appreciate the widget-like live tiles; what redeemed it in my eyes was its customizability - I could tweak and reorganize it as I pleased. But Windows 11's? For crying out loud...

Small pet peeve: I'm still not used to the windows start menu icon being in the middle of the taskbar. Every time I try to open it, I end up accidentally clicking on the weather widget. Thankfully, there's the Windows key on the keyboard.
P.S. Yes, I'm aware that the taskbar icon group and start button can be moved to the left - I've since switched, but I was --unsuccessfully-- trying to adapt to the new alignment and get on with the new design language as a whole.

[Renegade334]

Something that others might find useful: on Windows 10, press "Start" (Windows Key), go to "Settings", then "Update & Security" then go to the "Activation" tab. Make sure there is the following mention: "Windows is activated with a digital license linked to your account". (this means you're logging into Windows using a Microsoft online account rather than a local account) This opens a new way of getting Windows 11 without spending a dollar. More about this further down in this post.

Now, open the command-line interface (keyboard shortcut: press "Windows key" and "A" simultaneously) and type "slmgr /dli", which will open a small window detailing your license type. If you see "RETAIL channel", you're all set; if you see "OEM_DM channel", the discussion ends here as the hardware-bound license cannot be transferred.

So! In my case, I originally had a Windows 7 Ultimate (genuine retail) installation, which I upgraded to Windows 10 Pro when that OS came out. During that time-limited free upgrade process, the W7 product key was replaced on W10 by a generic key (which you can find in regedit at the following location: Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Win dows NT\CurrentVersion\SoftwareProtectionPlatform, then look up the BackupProductKeyDefault entry).

Caveat emptor: this generic key cannot be used to activate a new Windows 10/11 install! However, if you happen to own a retail Windows 10 product key (either store-bought or procured from an online marketplace), you can still use that to activate your new W11 install, since they share the same activation/licensing system/algorithm. Windows 7 and 8.1 keys, on the other hand, cannot be used to activate Windows 11 as they are from an older cycle/generation.

However, since my W10 license is account-linked as I've detailed at the beginning of this post, I can install W11 on a completely new rig, skip the "insert the product key" part and activate Windows just by logging into my Microsoft online account.

It is however advised to do the following on your old PC before sunsetting it:
- Go to cmd.exe and type the two commands:
slmgr /upk
slmgr /cpky
The first command deactivates the product key and the second scrubs it from the registry.

Should an issue arise, use the command line slui 4 to generate an activation ID, which you'll use to contact a Microsoft representative by phone and negotiate the activation of your new PC. Just precise that it's all new hardware and, no, your old PC won't be used anymore (your digital license is for one PC at all times).



Why am I making this post at all?
1. I'm looking to build a new PC (a tentative Ryzen 7 7700X + X670E sleeper build, but it remains a fluid situation) this year. My current rig gave me a VERY nasty scare earlier this month with a possibly deteriorating RAM slot on the motherboard, and the DRAM_LED warning indicator now briefly lights up during the first second of the boot process. As painful as it is for me to think about it, I shouldn't expect my already venerable (admirably long-lived, I must say) hardware to last me another ten years; I have to upgrade at a time when hardware has become hideously and unreasonably expensive and it is in my best interest to save money wherever and whenever possible (I'm bargain-hunting on Amazon right now and Jesus Christ I feel the pain of that price tag all the way down to my gonads!). With Windows, I'm fortunately all set, but alas, no joy for Office: I will have to buy a new license (149 Euros for Home & Student perpetual retail license, not that 99-Euros-a-year Office 365 paid subscription cr**).
2. There are RUMORS that the offer to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 for free will end this year. Yeah, Microsoft is really anxious to boost those W11 adoption numbers and they've just announced end of support (i.e. no new features to be added, etc) for Office 365 apps on W10 around October this year (but pls pls pls move on to Windows 11 and you'll get that O365 support back!). That said, do keep in mind that MS did maintain the "upgrade from W7 to W10" option far longer than expected before finally removing it; miracles could still happen.
...And, yes, the login trick reference above will no longer be available should that free upgrade offer get the proverbial boot.

[larethian]

Office sub had a price hike of nearly 50% in my country sometime last year that I decided to cancel the sub. Didn't use much last year anyway and I could live with google docs and sheets for now.

[Renegade334]

If you have a Microsoft (online) account, you still have access to the free but web browser-based Office suite, but the apps (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook) have a LOT of restrictions, like maximum document filesize, reduced range of formatting options and chart types, no macro support, loss of certain Excel data analysis tools and, of course, there is no offline mode available (and the files have to saved on OneDrive, though you can download them back to your PC afterwards) since it's all web-based.

But yeah, paid O365 subscription is a no-go for me. I like perpetual ownership (though technically I don't own the software, just the license to use it ), thank you very much.

[Huh...?]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Something that others might find useful: on Windows 10, press "Start" (Windows Key), go to "Settings", then "Update & Security" then go to the "Activation" tab. Make sure there is the following mention: "Windows is activated with a digital license linked to your account". (this means you're logging into Windows using a Microsoft online account rather than a local account) This opens a new way of getting Windows 11 without spending a dollar. More about this further down in this post.

Now, open the command-line interface (keyboard shortcut: press "Windows key" and "A" simultaneously) and type "slmgr /dli", which will open a small window detailing your license type. If you see "RETAIL channel", you're all set; if you see "OEM_DM channel", the discussion ends here as the hardware-bound license cannot be transferred.

So! In my case, I originally had a Windows 7 Ultimate (genuine retail) installation, which I upgraded to Windows 10 Pro when that OS came out. During that time-limited free upgrade process, the W7 product key was replaced on W10 by a generic key (which you can find in regedit at the following location: Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Win dows NT\CurrentVersion\SoftwareProtectionPlatform, then look up the BackupProductKeyDefault entry).

Caveat emptor: this generic key cannot be used to activate a new Windows 10/11 install! However, if you happen to own a retail Windows 10 product key (either store-bought or procured from an online marketplace), you can still use that to activate your new W11 install, since they share the same system. Windows 7 and 8.1 keys, on the other hand, cannot be used to activate Windows 11 as they are from an older cycle/generation.

However, since my W10 license is account-linked as I detailed at the beginning of this point, I can install W11 on a completely new rig, skip the "insert the product key" part and activate Windows just by logging into my Microsoft online account.

It is however advised to do the following on your old PC before sunsetting it:
- Go to cmd.exe and type the two commands:
slmgr /upk
slmgr /cpky
The first command deactivates the product key and the second scrubs it from the registry.

Should an issue arise, use the command line slui 4 to generate an activation ID, which you'll use to contact a Microsoft representative by phone and negotiate the activation of your new PC. Just precise that it's all new hardware and, no, your old PC won't be used anymore (your digital license is for one PC at all times).

I also have a Windows 7 Pro retail box which i purchase back in 2013-2014, and used it to activate Windows 10 Pro on a local account (only used online connection for authentication of the license, didn't create a Microsoft account yet).

Not sure if the license is permanently linked or not somehow, but when i use the prompt "slmgr /dli" to see the license type, it shows me "OEM_DM channel".

I wonder how it happened? (was it because i used the "P" stuff to activate my Office 2019 which somehow also changed my Windows license type?)

But if i do a fresh install of Windows 10 now and use my Windows 7 Pro license to activate it Windows 10 again and then upgrade to Windows 11 and then link a Microsoft account to it, would it work?

Edit: Just to add, i have a 11+ year old PC using Intel i7-4770, 8 GB RAM and no dedicated GPU.
Meaning i would have to upgrade my PC as well eventually before October 2025 (or switch to some Linux distro).

[Renegade334]

OEM means the license is permanently tied to the very computer you first activated your copy of Windows on. It's possible you accidentally bought the OEM version of the Home or Pro Edition of W7; typically, OEMs are cheaper than their MAK-type (Multiple Activation Key) "true retail" counterpart and some computer shops gladly sold them to attract more clients looking for a better bargain; this practice still continues to this day (some online marketplaces even hawk OEM licenses as if they were MAK retail versions, which is either deceitful or irresponsible).

The plastic box for Windows 7 installation DVDs did not overtly mention "OEM" on its faces or sides, but the DVD itself usually had a label saying "Licensed for distribution only with a new PC", which was a dead giveaway of the license type.

The OEM license is tied to your hardware configuration, with the primary identifier being your motherboard's internal ID. It's highly likely that, when you first upgraded from W7 to W10, Microsoft saved in their database your hardware configuration for future reference. OEM therefore comes with a big downside: imagine your PC completely breaks down (let's say that the MB short-circuited due to bad voltage)...welp, your OEM license just died in sympathy. Doesn't matter if you only enjoyed it for a day or a year or a decade, it's now as dead as your old computer. Your replacement would force you to purchase a new license. On the other hand, MAK retail versions would allow you to pop the DVD into the new rig and activate it (a maximum of five times IIRC; after that, you'd have to convince a Microsoft representative that, no, you're not trying to cheat the EULA by installing Windows on more machines that you're allowed to - just one at any given time).

There was another failure point: if you kept the motherboard but changed everything else (CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD), Microsoft's automated activation protocol could decide, "hey, it's not the same machine anymore" and would deactivate your Windows. You'd then have to phone a MS activation representative and argue your case with him/her to fix your license.


So...if you are eligible to Windows 11 and take advantage of the upgrade offer, the installer will convert your W10 license to a W11 one and update your little list of owned licenses on their servers. This daisy chain of OS upgrades will, I must remind you, only work if you're upgrading the same machine over and over.

[Renegade334]

Just a small heads-up: the aforementioned blog post hinting at an end to the free upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 has since been deleted by Microsoft and they've told PCMag that it had "contained inaccurate information".

Free W11 upgrade remains safe.
...For now.


Also, on October 2024, there'll be extended security updates made available for Windows 10...but it'll be a paid option. To the tune of around $30 for an extra year of support.

[Huh...?]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/MrAnhKNL2t4

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[Renegade334]

^-- Platform-locking has become quite important in their market dominance strategy and while I do not have any statistics to back it up (not really something I keep an eye on), Office (esp. O365), Azure and other online services have become the real breadwinner for Microsoft (this is, of course, excluding their hardware and gaming divisions, where I expect the picture to be more...complicated). That, I believe, is where they'll be a lot stricter in their antipiracy measures, now and thenceforwards.

Speaking of which, as an early birthday present, the Lian Li Lancool III full tower mid-tower case for my new personal rig has just arrived and holy mother of Raptor Jesus is that thing big--
That's what she said.

TL;DR…

hardwaregasm...and dilemmas

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I have long pondered transplanting my current SSD into the new case after running sysprep /generalize to cut down on easy prescriptions for system instability (typically caused by leftover drivers from the wrong vendor/ecosystem/generation -- which is guaranteed to happen to me, since I'm jumping from Intel to AMD) and then logging into my Microsoft user account to automatically reactivate Windows 10. Then, optionally, I'd take advantage of the newer hardware to freely upgrade Windows 10 to Windows 11 while keeping my old stuff around and preserving all tweaks and optimizations.
However, after giving it further thought, I've finally decided to tread the safer route and just go for a fresh Windows 11 install (with a bootable USB stick) with activation through Microsoft login. Next step would be to migrate the essentials and personal documents. Then, to quote a certain movie, "like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through". Clean slate, new workflow, new habits and new ways of thinking and doing things. A new era.

Hopefully I'll have all of the mounting and reprogramming done by this weekend, but that's presuming all ordered components shall come into my possession before then. Oh, and I need a handful of zip ties for cable management...

Wish me luck.

TL;DR…

solemnly press F on your keyboard

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(developing)

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TL;DR…

MY BODY IS READY

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