KanColle - Historical references and History discussion

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

The November/AURA artwork of Pacific ships really are something of a different level to all the others. I read about the design concept of the USS Langley and they really put a lot of effort into going through the same brainstorming and research that the original Kancolle team has done. I also like how the USS Fleet Girls are much more mature looking than their IJN counterparts.

I bet their dream come true is for the concepts to be integrated into the game, but I wonder how the balancing will be handled.

In the Yorktown class case I'd prefer if they wouldn't.
At least not the final versiions.

I personally prefer their other version of Enterprise for example (Seeable on the Blog above too; link below).
Enterprise in particular looks more like jrHigh to me while all other Yorktown class carriers look like Last High School year/ Early college years.

The other things with them i find rather ironic is that they are all dressed as native americans, given how said people were pretty much screwed over by the colonists.
The native American skirts also look a bit out of place if you look at all the other ships they have drawn.

My suspicion is that it was done to justify the bows, which are again rather strange with all of them/almost all of them having also having a colt.
Said colt is what I would have expected them to launch their planes from btw, given the Americans trigger happy nature

That being said, putting Enterprise(not the linked design now) below Zuikaku's fuel tanks/plane storage level (ship design here) kinda surprised me. Especially since the other two carriers (of the same class) are apparently even in that regard.
And notably I wasn't even specifically looking there, the difference between the 3 of them is just so obvious that it jumps you right in the eye.

Peronsal opinion on it is:
Let them launch the planes from their colts and fix enterpise's chest and they'd be perfect.
The native amrican skirt just mad eme say 'Oh the irony'.

That being said, I almost got a E (haha E, get it?) in Art once so my opinions on art are probably just worth the trash bin anyway.

And don't get me wrong here I don't say the Yorktown class carriers look bad (In fact they look pretty good) above is just personal taste/wondering about certain design decisions.




The other designs, especially the Battleships, yes please!

[yulinard]

I think USN ships can fit into the game if they dont taking AA Queen crown from Maya. Older battleships, scout cruiser, destroyers and subs... lattest Battleship and cruiser is a no. Also ships that have wonky history and part of someone famous history like USS San Jacinto

Theres World of Warship giving 3d models for fans to work with. Only Langley is flat for now but seaplane tender as kai-2 is weird.

[JokerD]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

In the Yorktown class case I'd prefer if they wouldn't.
At least not the final versiions.

I personally prefer their other version of Enterprise for example (Seeable on the Blog above too; link below).
Enterprise in particular looks more like jrHigh to me while all other Yorktown class carriers look like Last High School year/ Early college years.

The other things with them i find rather ironic is that they are all dressed as native americans, given how said people were pretty much screwed over by the colonists.
The native American skirts also look a bit out of place if you look at all the other ships they have drawn.

My suspicion is that it was done to justify the bows, which are again rather strange with all of them/almost all of them having also having a colt.
Said colt is what I would have expected them to launch their planes from btw, given the Americans trigger happy nature

That being said, putting Enterprise(not the linked design now) below Zuikaku's fuel tanks/plane storage level (ship design here) kinda surprised me. Especially since the other two carriers (of the same class) are apparently even in that regard.
And notably I wasn't even specifically looking there, the difference between the 3 of them is just so obvious that it jumps you right in the eye.

Peronsal opinion on it is:
Let them launch the planes from their colts and fix enterpise's chest and they'd be perfect.
The native amrican skirt just mad eme say 'Oh the irony'.

That being said, I almost got a E (haha E, get it?) in Art once so my opinions on art are probably just worth the trash bin anyway.

And don't get me wrong here I don't say the Yorktown class carriers look bad (In fact they look pretty good) above is just personal taste/wondering about certain design decisions.




The other designs, especially the Battleships, yes please!

Can you imagine the the space you would need to have for the Essex class carrier sisters, all 24 of them, and that's not even counting the 50 Casablanca class escort carriers

[DarkJak2050]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

that was pre WWII though, and since I doubt that we will see Thomahawk Missiles in this game before 2035, her KaiNi will probably still fire all turrets

Maybe...

But has it occurred to you that the girls are in their World War II state because it was the last major conflict their actual ships were in? Not to mentioned when they were at their "best"?

Then there's also the factor that their actual ships were either sunk during the war, or turned into scrap after the war.

Aren't those why they were in their WWII state?

For the Iowas, they would have the Modernized upgrades (and Iowa would still have only 2 operating turrets) if allowed. Remember that I'm considering their history and the events they were in. And same goes with the Japanese Navy ships involved in World War II. The Iowas survived the War and other major conflicts until they all became Museum ships to this day. As opposed to the Japanese ships that were either sunk during the war, or scrapped after the war.

But anyway, it seems that we're getting off topic now.

Thanks again for the images of what the Iowa-Class battleships would look like if they were in KanColle, but where's Missouri?

There's Iowa, Wisconsin and New Jersey, so where's Missouri?

Originally Posted by JokerD

Can you imagine the the space you would need to have for the Essex class carrier sisters, all 24 of them, and that's not even counting the 50 Casablanca class escort carriers

Uh, how about cutting it down to 4?

- Yorktown
- Intrepid
- Hornet
- Lexington

Because those are the surviving WWII carriers of the Essex-class to this day.

[Ithekro]

Missouri? Still being worked up. (the artist is still active. The last one was USS Maryland)

Note that Yukikaze didn't sink. She lasted until 1970 when she was scrapped after running aground after a major storm. Yukikaze is not in her final form. She's in her Imperial Japanse Navy form with her original armaments. She's not been converted yet to her Taiwan Navy specification with Allied weapons. She fought in the 1950s a little as flagship.

As for images and upgrades...there is always the space battleship route:

Images

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[DarkJak2050]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Missouri? Still being worked up. (the artist is still active. The last one was USS Maryland)

Note that Yukikaze didn't sink. She lasted until 1970 when she was scrapped after running aground after a major storm. Yukikaze is not in her final form. She's in her Imperial Japanse Navy form with her original armaments. She's not been converted yet to her Taiwan Navy specification with Allied weapons. She fought in the 1950s a little as flagship.

I guess you missed the part where I said "scrapped after the war". And I didn't say how long after the war. And also WWII being the last major conflict that she was in.

Those or I forgot the factor of being "transferred" to another country's Navy. Then again, it seems that's all the more reason she's in her WWII state. Because that's the last major conflict she was in while sailing the Japanese flag before being "transferred".

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DarkJak2050

Maybe...

But has it occurred to you that the girls are in their World War II state because it was the last major conflict their actual ships were in? Not to mentioned when they were at their "best"?

Then there's also the factor that their actual ships were either sunk during the war, or turned into scrap after the war.

Aren't those why they were in their WWII state?

For the Iowas, they would have the Modernized upgrades. Remember that I'm considering their history and the events they were in. And same goes with the Japanese Navy ships involved in World War II. The Iowas survived the War and other major conflicts until they all became Museum ships. As opposed to the Japanese ships that were either sunk during the war, or scraped after the war.

No they are in their WWII state due to the story, that says WWII ships. Also Iowa and her sisters were Mothballed and re-activated so often they'd at least need 3 upgrades like Bismarck has

Originally Posted by DarkJak2050

But anyway, it seems that we're getting off topic now.

Slightly, which is one of the reasons why I will let Kongou and Kirishima answer everything about Iowa's post WWII equipment and Kancolle:


Author + Translations:
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1961374?tags=Iowa

Originally Posted by DarkJak2050

Thanks again for the images of what the Iowa-Class battleships would look like if they were in KanColle, but where's Missouri?

There's Iowa, Wisconsin and New Jersey, so where's Missouri?

The author apparently never drew Missouri.

Alternetively you can read the arpeggio of Blue steel manga, she might just appear there sooner or later.

[DarkJak2050]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

No they are in their WWII state due to the story, that says WWII ships. Also Iowa and her sisters were Mothballed and re-activated so often they'd at least need 3 upgrades like Bismarck has

The author apparently never drew Missouri.

Alternetively you can read the arpeggio of Blue steel manga, she might just appear there sooner or later.

Alright then... So no modernization for the Iowas. But they should still have their combat experience. Considering that their actual ships are still around to this day, but as Museum ships.

But they would still be some of the "newest" battleships at the time. And they should be thankful for aircraft carriers; because they practically cancelled the construction of the Montana-class battleships. They were supposed to suped-up versions of the Iowas, with the intent of countering Yamato. The designs were done, the US Navy got the approval to construct them but their keels were not even laid. If those were constructed and hit the water... Uh-oh.

But as for Missouri, I wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with her involvement in officially ending WWII.

[Ithekro]

The Montanas were more an upgraded version of the South Dakota-class that the Iowas.

I did find in my older files this version of Tirpitz though:



I probably got it off 4chan years ago.

[DarkJak2050]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The Montanas were more an upgraded version of the South Dakota-class that the Iowas.

And yet, it doesn't change the intent of the Montanas to counter the Yamato.

You think Missouri will be done? Out of the 4 Iowas, she's practically the most famous.

[Ithekro]

By Jeanex? Probably. Seems to mostly be focusing on early warship first. Ship involved in 1942.

Montana was designed to take on larger treaty battleships without needing to worry about the Panama Canal. The US Navy did not know how large Yamato was, nor how larger her guns were until after the war was over. Even when she was sunk the Americans thought she was armed with 16 inch guns like the Nagatos. They had found out she was bigger than expected already, but by then the Montanas had been cancelled.

I don't recall the Americans having even seen Yamato before Montana was cancelled.

[SaintessHeart]

In the modern age of aircraft carriers, Yamato's concept is pretty much outdated.

Shells are not missiles, against moving and turning targets means that heavy long-ranged cannons need the power of modern FCS to calculate and predict fire-trajectories, rather than the rounds adjusting themselves to suit the changes made by the enemy captain. Besides, the ability to fire shells over long distances is an over-exaggeration, at long distances pressure dynamics and the inertia generated by the mass of the shell would have flung the shot greatly off course by the time the flight path stabilises.

Katori was sunk by Iowa only when the latter closed the distance and is able to aim and fire with little to no lag time. Also, the Iowa could have almost matched Yamato in firepower with little to no accuracy differences over long ranges. The Montana is an overkill.

[wavehawk]

Likewise, aircraft carriers are starting to be less effective. While they carry a large number of aircraft and firepower, carriers are primarily very large and vulnerable without an accompanying fleet of destroyers, frigates, submarines and obviously it's own air wing. Without all the rest of the fleet a Carrier's an easy target.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

Likewise, aircraft carriers are starting to be less effective. While they carry a large number of aircraft and firepower, carriers are primarily very large and vulnerable without an accompanying fleet of destroyers, frigates, submarines and obviously it's own air wing. Without all the rest of the fleet a Carrier's an easy target.

Aircraft carriers will always have a role. They used to have a marine detachment under the decks until 1998, where they built LHA/Ds to house a battalion, which is up to 2-4 companies rather than a single one under the deck of a CV.

And then there are Special Forces (mostly SEALs, but expect GB/Delta, AFSOC CAC/Weathermen and PJs, maybe even spooks) numbering up to a (half-)platoon size, forming up a mini TF when necessary given their combined expertises.

And when needed, they can call Washington to bring in up to 2,500 crazies from the 75th Ranger Regiment in 18 hours. Not discounting the madmen already on the LHA/Ds. With air support and the ground troops, they can act as a sledgehammer to take over anything in their fleet area of operations until relieved by the rest of the US Army (Airborne > Army Corps, etc).

P.S Can I get a mod to shift this conversation set to the historical discussion thread? Thanks. (MOD EDIT: You're welcome. )

[Ithekro]

Something odd I found while looking through an old Jane's Fighting Ships from 1945. Listed as one of the remaining Japanese ship was a carrier called Hayataka. Her sistership, Hitaka had been lost earlier in the war. This is Junyo, and her sister Hiyo.

Of course the old English translation also give us the special type destroyer "Hubuki" also know at the "main character". (Fubuki)

Sixth Destroyer Division is : Akatuki, Ikaduti, Inaduma, and Hibiki.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Something odd I found while looking through an old Jane's Fighting Ships from 1945. Listed as one of the remaining Japanese ship was a carrier called Hayataka. Her sistership, Hitaka had been lost earlier in the war. This is Junyo, and her sister Hiyo.

IIRC this is actually a common occurrence when one comes across a Japanese name/term in only kanji and no furigana. If the word has multiple readings, you have to make a guess at which is the correct one. 鷹 can either be read as "taka" or "yō", usually the former afaik. Same goes for 隼: "haya" or "jun", with the former as the more common reading.

This happened with Shoukaku as well ("Kakeduru").

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

Likewise, aircraft carriers are starting to be less effective. While they carry a large number of aircraft and firepower, carriers are primarily very large and vulnerable without an accompanying fleet of destroyers, frigates, submarines and obviously it's own air wing. Without all the rest of the fleet a Carrier's an easy target.

The same can actually be said of battleships, who are significantly less effective at defending themselves against submarines, aircraft, and anti-ship weaponry. The only thing a battleship can do better than a carrier is tanking hits and providing direct fire support, however for most other combat roles the carrier is a vastly superior platform capable of attacking at longer ranges with more powerful weaponry with better accuracy, and unlike a battleship a carrier is capable of easily upgrading its combat capability by virtue of updating the aircraft it carries.

It's disingenuous to say that a carrier is useless without its accompanying air wing, since that's like saying that a battleship is useless without its ammunition: it's a statement of fact, but not really something encountered in a practical sense in a combat scenario. And a battleship also requires just as many escorts to handle the threats that it can't effectively fight itself such as aircraft and subs, which are handled by its escorts.

Carriers in fact are only going to become more effective as more advanced aircraft and missile systems are developed, hence why you see modern navies trying to catch up to the US in acquiring carriers of their own, rather than going back to building big-gun battleships.

[Ithekro]

The current problem the US Navy has is power limitations for electricity generation. Modern technology require a lot of power as the ships get more and more computers. Add to this the lasers and railguns in development, and you have some really hungry ships. While the nuclear powers ships can produce a lot of power, the older ones lack something. Either a large enough power generator, or their wiring is insufficient for the loads needed. The recently commissioned USS Zumwalt. and the new Ford-class carriers should have the power requirements for the new weapon systems, and the Fords will have their decks designed the handle the engine blasts of things like the F-35C.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The current problem the US Navy has is power limitations for electricity generation. Modern technology require a lot of power as the ships get more and more computers. Add to this the lasers and railguns in development, and you have some really hungry ships. While the nuclear powers ships can produce a lot of power, the older ones lack something. Either a large enough power generator, or their wiring is insufficient for the loads needed. The recently commissioned USS Zumwalt. and the new Ford-class carriers should have the power requirements for the new weapon systems, and the Fords will have their decks designed the handle the engine blasts of things like the F-35C.

Moreover the Fords work mostly on electromagnetism instead of steam.
I also read about a proposal to add armor around Vital parts of some destroyer classes.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

The same can actually be said of battleships, who are significantly less effective at defending themselves against submarines, aircraft, and anti-ship weaponry. The only thing a battleship can do better than a carrier is tanking hits and providing direct fire support, however for most other combat roles the carrier is a vastly superior platform capable of attacking at longer ranges with more powerful weaponry with better accuracy, and unlike a battleship a carrier is capable of easily upgrading its combat capability by virtue of updating the aircraft it carries.

The carrier itself barely has any weaponry though - which is fun because they'd be large enough to carry missiles.
Nevertheless in a scenario such as Kancolle where battleships can literally sneak up on ships the Battleship would be vastly superior.

In actual real life combat scenarios though not so.