Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Mentar

*snip*

I got to say Mentar, I'm detecting more of a challenge from your post to A-tanXHayate fanatics more than any from Athena to Nagi during their meeting

Tbh, I never actually looked that deep into the whole thing, other than Athena returning the box without the ring (not the hat) as a way to say that she is keeping her feelings for him, but if Nagi loses him at any point, she will get him back. Your analysis of the meeting is interesting, but saying that Athena tried to mock Nagi or she wanted to get across to her that she was a ''clueless peasant'' is going too far into the reading imo, because I didn't really see anything that indicates that sort of message.

[Rah]

Eh, he's just looking for a fight, as this place is the highlight of the day for a lot of people here. HahAhAHaHHAhAhAHha, oh that's so pathetic. Well, anyway, I've said what I wanted to say regarding the whole Nagi x Athena meeting.

I'd rather speculate on the future happenings, than to delve deeper in discussion about the TRUE meaning, if any at all, about Athena's words.

Athena is going back to Japan. How long do you give her before she appears again to openly challenge Nagi?

I can already picture it. Mikado disinherits Nagi, freezes all of her assets (even the ones rightfully hers), and throws her out on the street. Athena shows up and proposes a deal to her, unknowing to Hayate.

The deal is about her lending her a mansion with the condition that she has dibs on Hayate, or something similar (perhaps no conditions at all, but just them living together.. haha). I bet Nagi wouldn't accept at first, but then from the lack of video games, and all the commodities, and the like, she'd reluctantly give in.

It would be funny to see Nagi sleepwalking at night, and going in Athena's bed. Then in the morning she wakes up, rises a tantrum, and accuses her of going in HER bed! Hahaahha...

But that's probably wrong. She does have support from her friends, right?

Or does Mikado "own" them as well? Like, he could say not to ask her friends for help, or he'll put them on the street as well....

Hhmhmhm.. it's magical Thursday. Will we see any spoilers today? ^___^

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Game8910

well, if you want to interpret her words literally, she said "Im not returning to Japan WITH YOU". She never said "Im never returning to Japan", so she isnt really ignoring her own words. We dont know what she will do in japan when she gets there so we can't judge her unfairly yet.

That's merely lawyerspeak semantics. The implication of Athena's scene was a goodbye from Hayate - which he also understood like this, as the use of the past tense "I loved you too" proved. And this splitup "I can't be with you, you need to return to your mistress" is very much at odds with the challenge "take care of this (empty ring box)".

You must have REALLLY been hurt by Athena's appearance if such actions manage to change your overall views on her so negatively so fast.

"Hurt"? I already said even before the showdown chapters that the question how Athena will deal with the aftermath will decide my opinion on her. And I was genuinely impressed that she DID seem to return him to her for just the right reasons (though I would have preferred her to add the "I'm indebted to her" one, too). I honestly thought that I might have been unfairly judging her character in the past, and said so.

And well, just one chapter later she shows exactly those traits again which made me dislike her in the first place. Hence my annoyed reaction.

Why wouldnt her thank be genuine? The way you describe her challenge is spot on, she probably does plan to claim back Hayate in the fufure,[...]

Which means that the farewell to Hayate was fake. It was no "I can't be with you now, you have obligations to your mistress. But when the time is right, I'll be with you again" kind of splitup, which would have been possible too.

As usual, you guys can't have it both ways. You can't hail her as the selfless saint when at the same time you agree that she lied to Hayate and plans to take him back in the future.

[...]but I honestly dont know why you would think she would belittle Nagi's person like that..."you little peasant"? really? I dont know where you got this image of her, I do not remember ever seeing Athena as the kid of person to mock her opponents as something inferior,

Handing someone a worthless ring box with the task to "take good care of it" and not explaining anything is not mocking and belittling in your opinion? The self-contented smile without explaining anything when laying down the challenge is your idea of showing genuine appreciacion? Or the low-eyebrow :3 look of her while flaunting the ring to Machina? If you ask me, she's enjoying herself, and she likes that Nagi does not know and understand what's going on. And don't get me started on the implication that she obviously sees Hayate as something which she can give back or take away on her own volition. Just like in the past she felt entitled to decide what he may or may not do on her own.

Many Athena fans just love her for this whimsical powerplay ... I feel repulsed by it.

So while I do not disagree much with your explanation, the way you are interpreting them is just a little too biased and negative in my view.

Naturally. I'm not saying that I'm necessarily right, or that people HAVE to see it my way. But you'll concede that my more negative assessment is well-founded.

Now, with that said, I'll give you a different interpretation. The reason Athena returns Hayate back was BECAUSE she was truly thankful to Nagi. If you think about it she could've easily persuaded him to stay right there and then, but she promised not to hurt Hayate and by that she means not hurt Hayate by hurting Nagi. Not takig Hayate away from Nagi is her way of thanks, the love rival's way.

But she isn't "giving him back". She's only borrowing him to Nagi, while pretending not to towards Hayate, and leaving Nagi completely in the dark. We're agreed that she actively plans to reclaim him. You don't reclaim gifts.

If she would be honest enough to tell Hayate "for now, you must be with your mistress, but one day we'll be together", I would have disliked it, but grudgingly accepted it. This two-faced deception however rubs me very much the wrong way.

She mentioned the situation is not like 10 years ago, Hayate now has people that care for him, its not just the 2 of them anymore, so giving Hayate to Nagi, but keeping the ring is her way to "level the playing field". Instead of "disregard everyone, acquire Hayate" and pretty much slapping everyone who care for Hayate in the face, by going to Japan on her own, and with Hayate now in the mindset that he has been dumped, she can slowly sip into the group of people that love Hayate and that way if she does manage to win him over...it will no longer come as an ambush to everyone around him.

Is that your idea of (quoting Athena from c265) "Farewell. I loved you..."?

You don't see a discrepancy to that? Like, honestly?

I don't want to requote everything from c265, but you really want to revisit that. Did all of this dramatic talk have any actual MEANING, or was that just self-contented "spur of the moment" tongue-flapping, said quickly and easily forgotten one day after?

That's exactly what I always disliked about her. And just when she managed to convince me that my earlier observations and conclusions were unwarranted and I was too harsh on her, she's just doing it again

If you think about it its pretty much the only way for her to "claim back" Hayate without taking him right now that their feelings are still fresh. Of course I dont expect her to take action any time soon, because at this point it would be "too easy".

She's deceiving Hayate, she's keeping Nagi in the dark and mocking her with a concealed challenge which Nagi cannot understand by design... well. There's reasonable hope that Hayate will have believed her.

If developed wrong it would be quite a bad move, but if done well it would be glorious...and personally if something like this would make you drop the series, then you should be in more shipping wars because this is not really the worst theres been. I guess im used to this atmosphere now....

I would strongly dislike if this kind of two-facedness would be rewarded in the end. We'll see.

Anyways....with everything said, I dont think you should jump to conclusions so far mentar...no one knows what and when Athena will actually show up on Japan, so save your negative views on her until she actually takes some sort of action next time

You are right in this aspect. But her "sacrifice", which after all only turns out to be a temporary borrowing (and is also terribly disrespectful towards Hayate, by the way) in the end, definitely made her a lesser person in _my_ book.

[Rah]

Personal opinions aside, which I couldn't care less for, can we seriously change the topic, or do you still feel inclined to challenge the Athena fans for your amusement? They'll obviously take the bait. How dreadfully boring...

Everyone wants to prevail with their theory, and prove that they're undoubtedly right, while they themselves are just interpreting it their way, and don't really know if it's what Hata really meant. How.. fun.. ugh...

Dammit. I really left this place for too long~

You guys need to get back under my flag, be good slaves, and properly, happily, and politely discuss about the things that I believe are the most fun. Ergo, drop the Athena talk and focus more on the unknown, and unarguable topics, yes?

Predictions, predictions... ah.. I can't think about any. Actually, I'm beginning to see a little appeal in this pointless arguing, and mass quoting. It can be a quite fun "debate", though pointless at that, it's still entertaining, I presume.

Honestly though, I can't analyze, nor remember that many chapters. I wish I was a more devoted HnG fan, but alas... there's no such luck. This but a fleeting thing, and isn't worth the effort to conjure up a storm. Though I'm contradicting myself yet again.. ah, what fun... not...


Mentar - You don't like Athena, you don't need to explain your reasons in detail, and thus provoke the Athena fandom to rebuke your logic, so you can do battle with them till' you're satisfied. Clearly, there won't be a victor here.

Athena fans - Don't bother. Truly, don't. You're getting nowhere. If you don't like chocolate, you never will. Unless of course some mad scientist does something crazy to it.. hahaha...


Hmm.. I need someone to start a new topic with me. Now, where can I find a fitting subject..? Someone give me a hand. Help me interrupt this pointless chain, yes?

No?

Eh well, I'm losing interest already. Hahahaha...

Back to the spam thread for a while then. Tralala~

[zodanhko]

Mentar, I don't understand why you continuously rate Athena practically on every of her doings. Quite frankly, your dislike of her is as deep as hell itself, so there is really no point in giving her some positive points here and there; it won't change your view of her. Instead of ALWAYS, quite literally, belittled Athena with your perspective to challenge A-tan fans which will end up in a pointless arguments, why don't you just provide positive facts about Hina so people will love her more?

[Mentar]

Mentar's ignore list += Rah

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Mentar, I don't understand why you continuously rate Athena practically on every of her doings. Quite frankly, your dislike of her is as deep as hell itself, so there is really point in giving her some positive points here and there; it won't change your view of her.

Oh, but that's not true. In fact, especially the discussions with musouka and Game8910 have been and still are very fruitful, and they DID manage to alter my opinion quite a bit. Maybe I _am_ looking for someone to convince me not to be angry at her. But sorry, at the moment I am.

Instead of ALWAYS, quite literally, belittled Athena with your perspective to challenge A-tan fans which will end up in a pointless arguments, why don't you just provide positive facts about Hina so people will love her more?

Because Hina hasn't been in the position to do much recently? Besides, she doesn't need campaigning, she's well-liked enough.

[Rah]

Nooooooo!!

zoddy-tan, don't reply that way! You'll provoke a reaction! And then it will fall like Dominoes!!

Does honestly everyone care more about the opinions of others, than the characters and manga itself? O_O

Wow, I guess I'm the only one who lost the ability to care? I don't mind though.

*sneezes*

Woah! Who wants me dead?! O_O

*paranoia levels surge*


Anyway, who believes that Hina got her hopes up after what Hayate told her, and will go for another shot? But perhaps she won't. We don't yet know what exactly she thinks of Athena, but if she considers her to be better than herself, then isn't it pointless to try and win him over, if someone of her caliber couldn't? Well, it's true that many other factors also apply, besides her subjective outlook.

Athena basically created a clean slate scenario, though it's very much implied by Hata that Athena and Nagi play the main roles by now. Ah... *discouraged 200%*

What chances do the others even have? Dammit...

But now it at least feels a little more like a race, right? How about another Izumi arc! Yes! We need more cuteness, and I wanna see her confess to Hayate by mistake!

Then, some time later, Hayate is a drug addict suffering from some incurable disease, because he's tormented by the choices he has to make. He has to turn down 4+ girls, and harem is not an option!

AHhaHAhAhaha, oh what if he became an alcoholic? A violent one at that! YEAAAHHH!!!

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Mentar, I don't understand why you continuously rate Athena practically on every of her doings.

To be honest, some also overvalue her deeds as well...

Originally Posted by Mentar

Maybe I _am_ looking for someone to convince me not to be angry at her. But sorry, at the moment I am.

''If you look for the bad in people you will definitely find it''

I think that you are reading the scene expecting the worst from Athena, so you can't see it except from the worst possible light i.e. it's a challenge to a clueless Nagi. Now, before that I think you need to ask yourself ''what did Hata want to do here? What did he want to get across to the readers?'' Did he really want to show Athena put forth a challenge to Nagi, or did he want to give her leeway to come back and ''stay in the race'' so to speak, all the while he managing to make things come full circle with her meeting Nagi and thanking her? I say this because you even took her ''thanks'' as being artificial and not truthful, which is really strange conclusion to come with out the whole meeting, especially since that contradicts what she done not so long ago.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Oh, but that's not true. In fact, especially the discussions with musouka and Game8910 have been and still are very fruitful, and they DID manage to alter my opinion quite a bit. Maybe I _am_ looking for someone to convince me not to be angry at her. But sorry, at the moment I am.

All I can say is your perceptions of her will not change ever. And you probably won't find anyone since it's really a tough job, and I doubt anyone would bother with it.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Because Hina hasn't been in the position to do much recently? Besides, she doesn't need campaigning, she's well-liked enough.

Her heroic deeds or something, doesn't matter...You like her right? That shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by Rah

But now it at least feels a little more like a race, right? How about another Izumi arc! Yes! We need more cuteness, and I wanna see her confess to Hayate by mistake!

No, no, I want a Maria arc...She's too behind, lately. Give me some fan-service. (Jk)

[hinakatbklyn]

Concerning Athena's change of heart, I don't think the problem is the fact that she had a change of heart (who doesn't change their mind?). The fact that she and Hayate had their farewell (a tearful one at that), and one or two chapters later, changes her mind? That may have been too soon. One volume, two volumes later, I would of thought she had a legitimate change of heart.

Instead of confessing to Hayate, Hinagiku let him settle his unfinished business with Athena and his battle with Midas? What would pro and anti Hina fans say if she changed her mind and decided to help Hayate directly rather than use the hero suit to hide her true idenity, or rather what would of happened if after Hayate saved Athena Hina decided to get between the two or admit her true feelings? I'm sure there would be an uproar as well.

[Rah]

@zod

Heh, you prefer Maria over Izumi, eh? Interesting...

I think your wish will come true soon enough, because Athena is returning to Japan, and after all she has a history with Maria. Perhaps they were rivals in school? Who knows? But I'm sure that would bring up some nice memories of their rivalry if so.. ^___^

@hina

Yeah, well, Hata had to do that in order to continue the series. If they became a couple, then basically everything else would have collapsed, so this is like a soft reset. Seeing how things turned out now, this was necessary to preserve the "harem" of sorts...

Now everyone still has a chance. Athena will participate as well, but Hayate seems to have seriously given up on her, while she had a different plan in mind. Basically, she thought of giving him up for now, and then when she feels like it, picking him back up (that fickleness is really cute~ ^___^), but Hayate thought that it was a real goodbye, since she said that she won't be returning to Japan with him, so he gave up. He even questioned if he'll be able to love someone like that again.

I wonder what will his reaction be now if he meets her? Will Athena attack openly, or will she stalk him? Well, I'm most interested in what Hina will do, and how will Nagi get out of her predicament at the moment, but perhaps those issues won't even arise just yet. I believe that comedy will return for a brief moment.

Or is Hata in a rush to conclude it? Honestly, does he believe that he can make a better manga than HnG? Well, he is friends with Ken, right (guy who made Love Hina & Negima)? Perhaps he can become awesome like him, and create a likewise good series after finishing one?

[WildArms]

*siiiiigh* NOW athena is really going back to japan...? seriously this is becoming weird, it seems japanese fans got mad when Athena said she wasnt going back... this reminds me of naruto ""spoiler alert of naruto if youha vent finished pain's arc!""

Spoiler for NARUTO:

when kakashi "died" and they even had to revive him lol (if you see naruto, you will know how out of place this was)

END SPOILER.
Why do they want to ruin HnG... freaking word of business, but well, if i was in his place, i would do the same, is hard to get your manga published, but i still.... dont know why they have to ruin it so much -.-

[Wolfnagi]

So A-tan going to Japan.......
that sucks.........
and Hina just being left alone,
and Ojou gonna need my help in this one

[Rah]

Well, yeah. Hata is quite interesting, isn't he? Perhaps he even messed up a little there, but nonetheless even if the execution of events wasn't flawless, he didn't break the statement of "Eternal love for Athena & Eternal protection for Nagi".

Though it can be interpreted many different ways, I still believe that he'll end it like that. Dunno how he's gonna wrap it all up, but IMHO it's the most likely ending. Still, we talked about this many months ago how he's easily influenced by his fans. He might change it... dunno how to feel about that, but it's not like we'd know if he changed it because his fans willed for it, or because he himself wanted to do so.

Well, whatever...

Oh, and apparently there won't be a normal chapter this week, because he's taking time off to think things through. That scene of Sakuya bathing, and Hayate commenting about something is expected to be released this week. It's a short mini-chapter, you know... those...

Limited!, or something... Dunno, perhaps it's not even Limited!, but... eh.. dunno. We'll see~ ^___^

Still, his assistants sure exaggerated a little with her breasts. I wonder who's truly drawing HnG now. Hata or his team? It does seem that their sizes fluctuate a little bit too much. Or... perhaps I'm mistaken.

Sakuya is a growing girl, and a super well endowed one at that. Perhaps she's still growing? LOL... dammit.. I pity Nagi now.. lol...

[Used Can]

Honestly guys, I really don't see why you've got to do this thing almost every week. Your arguments go basically this way:

A: I don't like your character.
B: OMG, why don't you like my character?
A: OMG, why don't you dislike that character the same way I do?
B: Why don't you like that character the way I do?!!

Ad infinitum

Honestly, cannot you guys just agree to disagree? Fuck, it shames me to think I used to be part of this argument.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

''If you look for the bad in people you will definitely find it''

I think that you are reading the scene expecting the worst from Athena, so you can't see it except from the worst possible light i.e. it's a challenge to a clueless Nagi.

I see the point you're trying to make. Maybe you are right, and I'm projecting personal experiences here to Athena's disadvantage. I won't discount the possibility. I see all the same signs from an earlier escapade in my life in which a very Athena'ish girl managed to successfully wreck the life of one of my friends. She was an extreme drama queen full of grand gestures and great-hearted decisions, and whenever she made them, she completely believed in them. I'm convinced that she was fully genuine - at the time she made them. And then, in no time thereafter, she would revert to her old roots and rationalize her changes just the way I see several people do it in here. But seeing the disastrous eventual outcome (as predicted by me and denied in A-tan-shipper-like manner by my friend until it was too late), it sure gives me an eerie feeling of deja vu.

But you don't see it as a challenge? Because that's one of the few agreements the A-tan shippers and me seemed to have. What would you think about Athena if it _were_ a challenge?

Now, before that I think you need to ask yourself ''what did Hata want to do here? What did he want to get across to the readers?'' Did he really want to show Athena put forth a challenge to Nagi, or did he want to give her leeway to come back and ''stay in the race'' so to speak, all the while he managing to make things come full circle with her meeting Nagi and thanking her?

That was my initial interpretation before I saw the execution of this chapter, as you may recall. On the meta-level, it would make alot of sense indeed. Maybe I _am_ overreacting to certain detail observations, but they really make me sour on this whole deal.

I say this because you even took her ''thanks'' as being artificial and not truthful, which is really strange conclusion to come with out the whole meeting, especially since that contradicts what she done not so long ago.

Why the keep-the-precious-ring-give-Nagi-the-worthless-shell? Why the haughty "next time I might not hand it/him back"? Why the coy smirk towards Machina, followed by the decision to return to Japan not later but _now_?

The chapter could have easily been made into the meta-message which you outlined (and I expected even after the spoilers). But fact is that it was told with strong diverging connotations, wouldn't you agree?

[chronoxii]

Originally Posted by WildArms

*siiiiigh* NOW athena is really going back to japan...? seriously this is becoming weird, it seems japanese fans got mad when Athena said she wasnt going back... this reminds me of naruto ""spoiler alert of naruto if youha vent finished pain's arc!""

Spoiler for NARUTO:

when kakashi "died" and they even had to revive him lol (if you see naruto, you will know how out of place this was)

END SPOILER.
Why do they want to ruin HnG... freaking word of business, but well, if i was in his place, i would do the same, is hard to get your manga published, but i still.... dont know why they have to ruin it so much -.-

weeeelll kakashi was revived along with all those who died (most of the village)
With regards to hata, he did quite an awesome job in creating a new character after 150 chapters and getting so many fans to 'jump ship'. It is not logical to take a-tan out of the story as there are some plot points involved with her and also because it will cause an uproar.

anyway i used to like hina but a-tan won me over...completely. so much that my mum thought i was crazy when i raged after reading 265 lol. oh well 266 managed to satiate me. i sense happy end ^_^

[Rah]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Honestly guys, I really don't see why you've got to do this thing almost every week. Your arguments go basically this way:

A: I don't like your character.
B: OMG, why don't you like my character?
A: OMG, why don't you dislike that character the same way I do?
B: Why don't you like that character the way I do?!!

Ad infinitum

Honestly, cannot you guys just agree to disagree? Fuck, it shames me to think I used to be part of this argument.

That's what I'm trying to fix. Help me out here, lol~

Just reply to my posts, and try to put it back on track. Or start a topic of your own. I'd be happy to reply, however uninterested I may be (lol).

Just to stop the senseless quarreling.

Originally Posted by chronoxii

weeeelll kakashi was revived along with all those who died (most of the village)
With regards to hata, he did quite an awesome job in creating a new character after 150 chapters and getting so many fans to 'jump ship'. It is not logical to take a-tan out of the story as there are some plot points involved with her and also because it will cause an uproar.

anyway i used to like hina but a-tan won me over...completely. so much that my mum thought i was crazy when i raged after reading 265 lol. oh well 266 managed to satiate me. i sense happy end ^_^

You should spoiler tag that. ^___^

And don't worry about Athena. Her "ship" is a frekkin' nuclear submarine! IT CAN'T SINK!! WHAHAhaHAhAhAhahA!!!

But don't just give up on Hina either. She's still a very cool character, and really likable, right? You just changed your preference to who you want to end up with Hayate. Did I guess right? No? You really don't like Hina now?

... :'<

*sob*

Naawww.. just messin'~ ^___^


Anyway, I think that it's fine if Hayate ends up with ANY of the girls. They're all cool their own way, and none of them are truly evil, or anything (y'know, like they could be a bad influence, or trouble his life, or... I dunno.. get in some bad situation, or something... they're all good..).

Well, except for Aika. I don't know about her yet. She seems a bit peculiar... hmm...

I did predict that she'd be the next enemy, but who knows, eh? I wonder what she's seeking. Hmm...

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Rah

he didn't break the statement of "Eternal love for Athena & Eternal protection for Nagi".

Did Hata ever say anything like that? I don't remember reading something like that in his blog.

Originally Posted by Rah

Though it can be interpreted many different ways, I still believe that he'll end it like that. Dunno how he's gonna wrap it all up, but IMHO it's the most likely ending. Still, we talked about this many months ago how he's easily influenced by his fans. He might change it... dunno how to feel about that, but it's not like we'd know if he changed it because his fans willed for it, or because he himself wanted to do so.

I wouldn't be surprised if Athena's appearance in 266 was due to the fans. Somehow, I get the impression he planned on having her show up later, but due to fan-anger he had to have her show up in this one, to basically tell the fans: "She's still in the manga, chill-out!".

Anyway, unless I read it wrong, in this week's entry, Hata said in his blog the girl in the last page of 266 seems to be a new character.

Originally Posted by Rah

Still, his assistants sure exaggerated a little with her breasts. I wonder who's truly drawing HnG now. Hata or his team? It does seem that their sizes fluctuate a little bit too much. Or... perhaps I'm mistaken.

Sakuya is a growing girl, and a super well endowed one at that. Perhaps she's still growing? LOL... dammit.. I pity Nagi now.. lol...

Hopefully, Sakuya will be the main female again in this side-story.

[Clarste]

On the ring-box, I figured it was an indirect message to Hayate. There's really no meaning at all in Nagi getting it, other than the fact that Athena can't face Hayate again so soon. I can't even see a malicious meaning behind the box, because it's just meaningless to Nagi overall. It can only mean something if Hayate sees it someday.