The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll [2006 TV ep. 3]

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Shirobane

hmm hand fetish eh?



Personally I'm a fan of Haruhi hands (No I'm not biased)
But a cookie to whoever can answer correctly on how Haruhi gets such <insert adjective> feminine fingers (if she were real.)



Hint: it has been shown in the anime already.

...Yes I'm bored.

i dont know how to answer that i just feel dirty when i think about it but that cookie sure sounds nice

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I dunno guys, I couldn't help but just laugh at the entire episode. If I vote good for this episode and laugh at Haruhi's antics, does that make me a bad person?

no. it just makes you an honest haruhiist.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Shirobane

Personally I'm a fan of Haruhi hands (No I'm not biased)
But a cookie to whoever can answer correctly on how Haruhi gets such <insert adjective> feminine fingers (if she were real.)



Hint: it has been shown in the anime already.

...Yes I'm bored.

AK-47... I mean, piano?


I thought Haruhi's legs were the attraction point in this episode. ^^;

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Shirobane

Also, Eclipze I don't think your example is very fitting of Haruhi's character as the intent to harm is already inherent in the action. Regardless if you didn't mean to harm someone else, the intent to harm is already present in that case. In Haruhi's case, she's more like a child trying to get your attention by pulling the tail of a cat who is clearly not enjoying the aggrivation. You (for example are the owner of the cat) aren't very happy since the child is basically torturing your cat, so you scold them. Mission success for the child as (s)he has obtained your attention now.

While my example of a terrorist may be out-of-place, your example of a attention-seeking child isn't that much better either.

Spoiler:

I believe it can be agreed upon that Haruhi is a rather oblivious and sub-conciously selfish person. She has admitted that she considers herself as a superior existance, while showing minimum consideration/respect for others around them. She thinks that the world revolves around her: She will get whatever she wants, her way.

In a way, a better example to describe Haruhi would be a self-centered person who is oblivious to his surroundings. Seen hollywood movies before, where a rich jerk who goes round taking whatever he wants, and treats the women he sleeps with as mere sex objects?

Haruhi does infact fit into this description: She doesn't care what other people feel, and she thinks what she does is right. She would go to the extend of abusing whatever resources (or people) she can get her hands on, as long as it aids in the accomplishment of her objective.

Even when the people she is using starts to breakdown (cry), she would think of it as a perfectly acceptable thing: "oh, its just another _normal_ human reaction, nothing to worry about". When she gave out the club flyers in this episode, she actually expected the people who received the flyers, to join enthusiastically. She didn't even consider the possibilities outside how she believes people should react. "I am Haruhi, therefore *points fingers* you, you and you will do my bidding, no questions asked. Oh, Miss big boobs, please go place the hand of the computer club's president on your chest while I take photos of them, so that I can blackmail them for a brand new computer".

Really, I agree that Haruhi is a very unique and interesting indivisual, but like others, I also agree that Haruhi's actions can't be morally justified. Is it so hard to admit that Haruhi isn't a good (in terms of morals) person?

Anyways, on the episode itself. The computer blackmail part was fairly funny (in a crude way), there was the serious plot development scenes, and the animation was, as usual, top-notch (I can't imagine KyoAni screwing up). But overall, it was a fairly "bleh" episode. I'll give the episode a 7.

[ayyo]

ヤレヤレ. While I'm not trying to attack you or insult you or anything, let's take a deep breathe and remember it's only an anime (or novel, whatever). I think you're taking it too seriously if you go as far as to compare Haruhi to terrorists. It's the same as critics complaining Mahoraba ~Heartful Days~ is evil and wrong because they show child labor.

If I were to defend Haruhi's character, I would say she isn't trying to hurt anyone. Certainly you can say she isn't a very moral person, but then we would have to degrade the topic into what is right vs what is wrong, in an anime no less.

The problem is only that you obviously don't like her character, or to say, not compatible with your 'morals' vs an anime character's. Thats fine and all and I'm sure other people respect your opinion, but its probably a bad idea to express your opinion in such a way in a fan forum of said character.

--------

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode. In my opinion, the only thing that was to be taken semi seriously was the last remark by Yuki. The first result of the first scene (When she was sitting in room by herself) was overshadowed by when Kyon basically gave the "huh... ok.." look after telling her she should leave, and the crying scene was overshadowed by Haruhi stripping all of sudden, and result of second scene (when she was walking out of the room) was overshadowed by her comment of if he will take her when she can't marry because she isn't pure, and by Kyon's comments afterwards.

[Wandering_Youth]

Wow, this show is strange yet funny. None of it makes sense but I can't stop laughing at the antics Haruhi keeps on doing.

As if I'm not already a bit confused on this anime, I went and checked out the thread "All about Suzumiya Haruhi" to find that there's this Haruhiism thing going around the anime culture in Japan. I was questioning myself if this was all just bull.

Spoiler:

Ahaha, poor Aashin keeps getting harassed by Haruhi in almost every episode so far, which are, imo, the funniest scenes next to all the blackmailing going on.

This is anime is rocks!

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by zalas

By the way, is the Hyperion series just a random reference, or is there some deeper meaning/symbolism to it? A simple yes or no answer would be appreciated from people who've read the novels. Near the end the thought of

Spoiler for speculation based on episode 3 end part:

OMG, Yuki's part of the TechnoCore!!!

came across my mind. In Hyperion, there were 7 pilgrims (each with a unique personal history) on a voyage to visit the Shrike, a sort of mechanical god of pain. Perhaps the members of the SOS-dan each possess a unique history and are on a voyage to get pain inflicted upon them by some ultimate creator? XD;

Technically I believe the book she got was actually Fall of Hyperion, not Hyperion. I only mention this because Ummon and the Technocore are introduced in Fall of Hyperion (I believe, it's been a couple of years since I've reread it) and the amount (and breadth) of symbolism cranks way up. While it could be a random book, my guess would be that it was specifically chosen. Having not read the Haruhi novels, my guess would be that it's relevant because of

Spoiler for in case I'm right:

either: the Hyperion series' delving into the nature of God or the Shrike and the Time Tomb's relationship to the Time/Space continuum (they move backwards in it). To a lesser extent it could also relate to Ummon and the rest of the Technocore (after all, Ummon and his speech are a Zen thing) and they create their own humanoid interfaces (like Yuki).

I doubt any hints from the Hyperion books will really be apparent until after the anime series is over (or until someone who has actually already read both comes forward). about a lot of points.

EDIT: If the book is actually Hyperion. Then the symbolism could be very obvious: Hyperion is about a group of disparate individuals who go on a pilgrimage together.

[Cheese Ninja]

I've gotta wonder if Asahina has nothing that could stop Haruhi from taking advantage of her, after all, we know from the first episode that she has an eyebeam. That would be a bit heavy-handed, I'm thinking something more subtle.

Haruhi is overly obsessed with her goal, and won't let something like morals get in her way. She treats every small step towards it as absolutely essential. (just an aspect of her headstrong demeanor, the computer wasn't really important enough to validate that) It makes her a bit cruel sometimes, but I'm having trouble faulting her for it. Maybe because she's melancholic...?

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by ayyo

ヤレヤレ. While I'm not trying to attack you or insult you or anything, let's take a deep breathe and remember it's only an anime (or novel, whatever). I think you're taking it too seriously if you go as far as to compare Haruhi to terrorists. It's the same as critics complaining Mahoraba ~Heartful Days~ is evil and wrong because they show child labor.

If I were to defend Haruhi's character, I would say she isn't trying to hurt anyone. Certainly you can say she isn't a very moral person, but then we would have to degrade the topic into what is right vs what is wrong, in an anime no less.

The problem is only that you obviously don't like her character, or to say, not compatible with your 'morals' vs an anime character's. Thats fine and all and I'm sure other people respect your opinion, but its probably a bad idea to express your opinion in such a way in a fan forum of said character.

Spoiler:

Eh...since this IS anime, why go through all the trouble trying to justify an anime character's actions? I do like Haruhi for her unique-ness and all, but its like people are going out-of-their-way to say "Haruhi = Goddess. Haruhi is always right".

Lets agree to disagree. She doesn't INTEND to hurt anyone, but she WILL if she has a need to do so. If for example, the school club-forming board directors says to Haruhi: "We will allow you to start your own SOS brigade club as long as you help us blackmail a certain individual."

....she WILL do that.

Let me stress my point. I like Haruhi as an anime characte, even though I dont like the way she does things. I accept her for the anime character she is, but it seems like Haruhism-members try too hard to argue the flaw of Haruhi into another good trait, which is clearly not the case. Again, its no different from defend an obnoxious self-centered jerk's actions. It just doesn't work.

Oh, to be precise, this is a Suzumiya Haruhi series discussion sub-forum. The forum isn't created by Haruhi fans, it is part of Asuki's boards. While there are hardcore S.Haruhi fans lurking on these boards, there are some who simply watch the anime. And I believe we are suppose to be having rather well-thought discussions about the anime/characters? As far as I can tell, the last thing the mods want is for the sub-forum to turn into a big fanclub itself, with S.Haruhi lovers who communicate through 1-liners.

Again, I am not bashing Haruhi. I just get this uneasy feeling that people are turning a blind eye to the flaw of a character and counter-argue a character critism by saying stuff like "oh, she is innocent, you can't blame her". Really, I don't really care if Haruhism is good or anything, but just don't go to the extend of senseless praise, ok?

[Shirobane]

My example simply outlines what is inherent in every decision she makes, her intention is not evil but her methods may be questionable in terms of morality as dictated by society. However, I don't believe that she's immoral by blackmailing the computer research group or the abuse she inflicts upon Mikuru but rather that her character is amoral. Thus my example, where if a child is harassing a cat, would (s)he understand the implications? Does morality play a role in that decision? Probably not, all the kid wants to do is get your attention and finds out that the cat makes some weird sounds when being harassed that could serve to his/her cause.

Secondly, being reckless of other peoples' feelings is not the same as not caring. In fact being "reckless" is similar to "not being receptive of" in this case. I believe that Haruhi is simply not very receptive of their feelings. Case in point Mikuru was crying at the end of the flyer promotion scene, but it could be mistaken as Mikuru being afraid of the outcome of being escorted to the principal's office. (at least I wouldn't put it past Haruhi)

Selfish? I'll concede that point...for now.

Is Haruhi a particularly bad person for doing the things she has done? In my mind she comes across as misguided if anything else. Because she's a bit reckless with the feelings of other people around her, it would seem that she lacks the feedback required to make a "moral" (as dictated by society) decision. Mindyou it's not as if she completely ignores Mikuru's existance and considers her a manipulable object. As translated by a.f.k. (paraphrased) Haruhi feels it's no fun to do their advertising if Mikuru-chan isn't there. This alone indicates that Haruhi acknowledges Mikuru and maybe even considers her as a friend

Eclipze you'll have you cite me the time code and episode in which Haruhi says that she considers herself of superior significance if you could. As I have no recollection of that passage.

Ah and ayyo, I don't think Eclipze meant any harm from his post, it's simply discussion in progress . It's hard to find shows that could spark some real debate past "zomg <xyz> is so hot and everyone else sux!!!!111one" so I kinda relish the discussion.

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

AK-47... I mean, piano?

ja jang!

A cookie for you!
Indeed it is the piano. Rejoice guys that play the piano, you have girly hands (as noted from several ladies who have commented on mine T_T ...at least they didn't use the word "girly")

Edit: God I'm long winded, I've fallen behind again =/
Edit2: I'm also not attempting to make anyone like the show by means of large flowing paragraphs, I feel there is at least SOME merit to discussing Haruhi's character.

[Vexx]

Despite the fact I love Haruhi's character ... I can see Neitzchean undertones to her viewpoint ... she is "beyond" good or evil in her view. She simply wields the power of her will to achieve her goals. I don't know enough about how this series continues to know if she would actually seriously hurt someone or not. ... I guess that's part of the riveting anxiety and whether Kyon is a mitigating agent or not.

[ayyo]

No harm done. Yeah it's a discussion, but it's kind of overdoing it to compare to terrorists. Anyway,

Eclipze, I get what you're saying 100%, and its hard enough to convey into words, so time to pull statistics-out-of-ass.

What is happening and what you're feeling about 'Haruhism' is that, lets say out of 10 viewers that really enjoy watching the show, 9 out of 10 fanboys it, and odd person out will feel the other 9 people are overdoing it with their fanboyism. It happens to best of us and it happens at random. Using an example, I was sadly picked at random to be the odd person out of 10 for Shuffle! and I thought everyone else was extremely overdoing it with the clubs, labeling Kaede this, Kaede that and even drawing freaking comparisons from Shuffle! to Fate/stay night, despite me enjoying it. Unfortunately, you were also picked to be the odd person out here, so I know how you feel Visible examples are how there are currently like 8 blogs praising it and 2 other blogs going 'But its not that good =\'.

Solution? Ignore the comments and enjoy watching the show for what it is and enjoy spewing fanboyism for the other animes where you weren't picked to be the odd person.

And yes, technically, duh, its a "Suzumiya Haruhi series discussion sub-forum" , but its a play on the idea of all the "Haruhism".

[Shirobane]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Despite the fact I love Haruhi's character ... I can see Neitzchean undertones to her viewpoint ... she is "beyond" good or evil in her view. She simply wields the power of her will to achieve her goals. I don't know enough about how this series continues to know if she would actually seriously hurt someone or not. ... I guess that's part of the riveting anxiety and whether Kyon is a mitigating agent or not.

Ooo Nietzche, I've been meaning to find a book of his theories but I keep putting it off, you wouldn't know of a book that underlines Nietzchean concepts would you?

[Thelastguardian]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

EDIT: If the book is actually Hyperion. Then the symbolism could be very obvious: Hyperion is about a group of disparate individuals who go on a pilgrimage together.

And what, Haruhi is the Shrikes that is made to torture other characters?

Let's not go there.

Frankly I agree with Eclipze. Haruhi can be a jerk, bitch, and etc. . But if those traits turn you off- I am sorry to say that you are missing a very large part of literature.

Lord of the Flies doesn't shy away from those traits; Neither did Fahrenheit 451. I can go on forever with all the famous fictions, but let's make one thing clear- the characters(and their traits, good and bad) make the story possible, not the story makes the characters possible.

That's why I gave up on Harry Potter lol . (Unless they come up with the manga/anime adaptation of it XD )

If you ignore parts of Haruhi's personality, you are missing the whole story.

[Eclipze]

^^ I'm glad this issue is understood. But meh...if a person wants to dislike Haruhi (or any other character) for any reason, like the poster who said he wished Kyon to punch Haruhi, its ok. I get a little uneasy when fans impose (I use this term lightly) their "fanboyism" upon an opinion that differs from theirs. If he wants to punch Haruhi for a certain deed she's done, let them be. It is especially weird when the reasoning is out of line in terms of justification. (this is the part where I feel especially uneasy as a poster).

Originally Posted by Shirobane

Eclipze you'll have you cite me the time code and episode in which Haruhi says that she considers herself of superior significance if you could. As I have no recollection of that passage.

While not specifically said by Haruhi herself, she does imply that attitude by saying "I have no interest in normal humans". "Are you an alien? If not, I wont talk to you". You can rephrase them to "I wont talk to you unless you are special enough to talk to".

...you get the idea.

I have no problems with Haruhism/fanboyism. They can infact provide some really interesting discussion and fun, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

[Vexx]

I can't think of a particular book I recommend, though my son is currently reading "The Portable Neitzche" by Kuff for high school at the moment.

You could probably google or wiki for some thumbnail descriptions. He had some interesting ideas but lets just say his ideas are easy to misuse.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

no. it just makes you an honest haruhiist.

I see....*Votes 10* Seriously, I haven't had this much fun before, 1/4 of my body was crying for the little girl but 3/4 of myself just laughed and begged for more. Guess I know which consciousness won.

Haruhi is basically an anime female version of Dogbert, just more fun. Dogbert's belief was that everyone was placed on Earth just to serve him, Haruhi pretty much fits that description.

Anyways, on the episode itself. The computer blackmail part was fairly funny (in a crude way), there was the serious plot development scenes, and the animation was, as usual, top-notch (I can't imagine KyoAni screwing up). But overall, it was a fairly "bleh" episode. I'll give the episode a 7.

Oh yeah, especially the...."I'll just say that the club wanted to **************" First time I heard a **** on anime.

Of course it can't be morally justified but that's the way it is.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Shirobane

Ooo Nietzche, I've been meaning to find a book of his theories but I keep putting it off, you wouldn't know of a book that underlines Nietzchean concepts would you?

Well, he wrote a lot of books (about a fair number of subjects).

Thus Spoke Zarathustra ("God is Dead"), The Birth of Tragedy (his first work, about the differences between Greek schools of thought), and The Antichrist (an attack on Christianity) are some of his more controversial works.

I think what you're probably looking for; however, are Beyond Good and Evil, On the Genealogy of Morals, and The Twilight of the Idols.

[Shirobane]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

While not specifically said by Haruhi herself, she does imply that attitude by saying "I have no interest in normal humans". "Are you an alien? If not, I wont talk to you". You can rephrase them to "I wont talk to you unless you are special enough to talk to".

...you get the idea.

I have no problems with Haruhism/fanboyism. They can infact provide some really interesting discussion and fun, but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

hmm, while not trying to be pompous here, there are times where I can walk a mile in Haruhi's shoes in saying that people are mundane. Of course not everyone is boring, but for some people, it seems that life does not extend past "that primetime show." But really, wouldn't it be more fun talking to an alien rather than to another person who's sole life purpose is to watch that prime time show? Albeit Haruhi is much more passionate about that than I would ever be...

[DannoHung]

Haruhi is the God Emperor of Anime. Her actions cannot be judged as those of mortal men, for she has knowledge of the Weirding Ways.

*offers melange up to the mahdi*