Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Var

That is by far the dumbest argument I've ever heard. They expressed an opinion, not try and defile the obviously godlike image of Suzaku that you have. If they had actually said 'I don't feel sorry for him cause Suzaku eats massive men tesitcles!' then you'd have a point. Otherwise, its just pretencious nonsense.

I agree that anyone being a Kalulu fan or whatever has no basis on this argument. But I really don't know what you are trying to argue about Suzaku? That he could have prevented any deaths? I think that even you know that ini war, the lives of many are way beyond his control.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

If it was as simple as that then it would have activated when he acknowledged that he could not when against the new Gurren when it was tearing apart the Lancelot. Fact is it didn't trigger until he had his inner monologue saying he will accept his death as his atonement. Which I pointed out in the rest of the post you quoted but left out, as well as the previous one if you bothered reading the rest.

Just trying to save space.

"Can't win" =/= "I'm going to die right now"

[Var]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

I agree that anyone being a Kalulu fan or whatever has no basis on this argument. But I really don't know what you are trying to argue about Suzaku? That he could have prevented any deaths? I think that even you know that ini war, the lives of many are way beyond his control.

That had nothing to do with my argument. Personally, before, I was simply talking about there being more than one option. I'm not blaming Suzaku for anything, (I blame everyone a little) just saying that there were other options available.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

If it was as simple as that then it would have activated when he acknowledged that he could not when against the new Gurren when it was tearing apart the Lancelot. Fact is it didn't trigger until he had his inner monologue saying he will accept his death as his atonement. Which I pointed out in the rest of the post you quoted but left out, as well as the previous one if you bothered reading the rest.

So by your logic it was Euphie's fault that she wanted to massacre the Japanese. If only she would have willed herself not to hate Japanese, she could have saved all the Japanese?

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Var

That had nothing to do with my argument. Personally, before, I was simply talking about there being more than one option. I'm not blaming Suzaku for anything, (I blame everyone a little) just saying that there were other options available.

Fair enough. But under the cicumstances, I felt he did what was best at the time.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Fair enough. But under the cicumstances, I felt he did what was best at the time.

On the other hand, I did not, which is why we disagree.

[attobyte]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

So by your logic it was Euphie's fault that she wanted to massacre the Japanese. If only she would have willed herself not to hate Japanese, she could have saved all the Japanese?

Well Yuffie did overcame geass when she tried not to think about Suzaku as japanese. What I'm trying to say is maybe a real smart person may twist his mind to the point of tricking Lelouch's geass order but I don't believe Suzaku is smart enough for it

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Var

On the other hand, I did not, which is why we disagree.

But he has goals and wants to implement change. He can't do this unless he takes some form of action. You can't ask him to sit major battles out because that's not an option. No more than Suzaku can ask Lelouch to never become Zero again. I suppose the only way to know who has the better way is the results the produce in which who can actually make a better world.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by attobyte

Well Yuffie did overcame geass when she tried not to think about Suzaku as japanese. What I'm trying to say is maybe a real smart person may twist his mind to the point of tricking Lelouch's geass order but I don't believe Suzaku is smart enough for it

Well then it's a difference in ability then. If he's not smart enough or doesn't have enough will then it's out of his control.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Var

That is by far the dumbest argument I've ever heard. They expressed an opinion, not try and defile the obviously godlike image of Suzaku that you have. If they had actually said 'I don't feel sorry for him cause Suzaku eats massive men tesitcles!' then you'd have a point. Otherwise, its just pretencious nonsense.

Who said that I have a god-image of him? I respect Suzaku, defend him from mindless bashing, I disagree with his methods (season 1), I was a Lulu fanboy for season 1 until I came to this thread and changed my opinion of Suzaku because I only look at the surface, I didn't look underneath his character, he pilots a mech, so that's a bonus point for me.

And looking at this thread, why couldn't I have an opinion that Kallen/Lulu fanboys expressing their dislike of Suzaku. Read through this thread (all the pages), I discovered at least 9 posters who just signed up to animesuki to bash Suzaku rather than contribute to the discussion. Why do Suzaku fans hate Lulu, well because Lulu did a great deal of pain to Suzaku, who can never move beyond Euphie.

Who said that I completely disliked Lelouch in R2 either. Even though I was smiling everytime he lost. I pitied him in episode 17 because he was willing to put aside his pride at least once to pursue forgiveness. (I hate proud characters) so at least he is slightly better in my opinion.

Also, many fans insist that Suzaku is always biased with Lulu hence causing more bashing, however for Lulu, he is now biased for Suzaku AND nobody finds anything wrong with that. So it is completely one-sided.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by musouka

Just trying to save space.

"Can't win" =/= "I'm going to die right now"

He was in clear danger of his life and as he said he did not stand a chance. He already knew he will not win against her and she was fighting to kill him. and also as I already said before even when Kallen's claw was coming down on him the geass did not trigger until he accepted his death for atonement in his monologue.

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

So by your logic it was Euphie's fault that she wanted to massacre the Japanese. If only she would have willed herself not to hate Japanese, she could have saved all the Japanese?

Okay that is just ridiculous, do you understand what I typed at all?

Euphie's geass was to kill all Japanese. her will to kill them had nothing to do with it as was shown she just killed any Japanese she came across. Suzaku as was shown in all the occasions I recall his geass activating the major factor is his will, or lack there of, to live. The conditions presented with both of them were different.

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

When did I say that it was unreasonable to think that he was going to die. I was merely contesting the point that his geass activates solely on his life being in danger.

My post back there wasn't a reply to your posts. I was simply stating me own thoughts on the matter of his geass.

Well Yuffie did overcame geass when she tried not to think about Suzaku as japanese. What I'm trying to say is maybe a real smart person may twist his mind to the point of tricking Lelouch's geass order but I don't believe Suzaku is smart enough for it

I think it'd be a bit difficult to trick the geass. Basically, you'd need it to be a conditional type geass like Suzuku's instead of a command type geass like the numerous people Lelouch has told to "die". Because once the command type geass is given, you lose control of your actions and thoughts and just carry out the command. Basically, you don't think because the geass thinks for you. Now to trick the conditional type geass would be difficult. First you would need to know what the condition is, which in Suzuku's case is to "live on". Basically, in order to trick it, you'd need to believe to the very core of your soul that you wouldn't die from said action. Like if Suzuku could somehow convince himself that jumping off a scyscraper would not kill him, he could jump off the skyscraper even though it would kill him. Basically, he'd have to commit sucide without thinking or trying to commit sucide. This is just one example of what it would be like to trick Lelouch's geass.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

He was in clear danger of his life and as he said he did not stand a chance. He already knew he will not win against her and she was fighting to kill him. and also as I already said before even when Kallen's claw was coming down on him the geass did not trigger until he accepted his death for atonement in his monologue.



Okay that is just ridiculous, do you understand what I typed at all?

Euphie's geass was to kill all Japanese. her will to kill them had nothing to do with it as was shown she just killed any Japanese she came across. Suzaku as was shown in all the occasions I recall his geass activating the major factor is his will, or lack there of, to live. The conditions presented with both of them were different.

Well one can argue that it didn't trigger until Nina said that Freya would save his life. Thus his will had nothing to do with it rather it was if his if his mind registered any possible options for him to live.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

He was in clear danger of his life and as he said he did not stand a chance. He already knew he will not win against her and she was fighting to kill him. and also as I already said before even when Kallen's claw was coming down on him the geass did not trigger until he accepted his death for atonement in his monologue.

You are trying to split a hair so slender that all you're doing is cutting your fingers instead.

Look, it doesn't matter if he "accepts death" or not--the point is him thinking he's going to die. He could be screaming "I DON'T WANT TO DIEEE" at the top of his lungs and the geass would kick in because the condition of "host thinks his life is in mortal danger" has been met. The geass is "LIVE" not "don't kill yourself".

[Var]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Who said that I have a god-image of him? I respect Suzaku, defend him from mindless bashing, I disagree with his methods (season 1), I was a Lulu fanboy for season 1 until I came to this thread and changed my opinion of Suzaku because I only look at the surface, I didn't look underneath his character, he pilots a mech, so that's a bonus point for me.

And looking at this thread, why couldn't I have an opinion that Kallen/Lulu fanboys expressing their dislike of Suzaku. Read through this thread (all the pages), I discovered at least 9 posters who just signed up to animesuki to bash Suzaku rather than contribute to the discussion. Why do Suzaku fans hate Lulu, well because Lulu did a great deal of pain to Suzaku, who can never move beyond Euphie.

Who said that I completely disliked Lelouch in R2 either. Even though I was smiling everytime he lost. I pitied him in episode 17 because he was willing to put aside his pride at least once to pursue forgiveness. (I hate proud characters) so at least he is slightly better in my opinion.

Also, many fans insist that Suzaku is always biased with Lulu hence causing more bashing, however for Lulu, he is now biased for Suzaku AND nobody finds anything wrong with that. So it is completely one-sided.

I, personally, don't see any of the so called senseless bashing in a quote that surmounts to "I cannot feel pity for this character". What bashing is there in that sentence? It is simply an objective opinion about a person's own feelings towards the character. They did not attack him, they did not try to say thing XYZ was wrong, they simply said, "I do not feel sorry for him".

[hero147]

Originally Posted by musouka

You are trying to split a hair so slender that all you're doing is cutting your fingers instead.

Look, it doesn't matter if he "accepts death" or not--the point is him thinking he's going to die. He could be screaming "I DON'T WANT TO DIEEE" at the top of his lungs and the geass would kick in because the condition of "host thinks his life is in mortal danger" has been met. The geass is "LIVE" not "don't kill yourself".

If he said "I dont want to diee" in essence he would be trying to escape the situation he is in, he is metaphorically "living on" . The geass only activates when Suzaku wants to choose death over life, to atone for his sins. The geass chooses its path for Suzaku. A geass can't complete what its user can't do, shown when Lelouch questioned Cornelia about his mother's situation.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by hero147

If he said "I dont want to diee" in essence he would be trying to escape the situation he is in, he is metaphorically "living on" . The geass only activates when Suzaku wants to choose death over life, to atone for his sins. The geass chooses its path for Suzaku. A geass can't complete what its user can't do, shown when Lelouch questioned Cornelia about his mother's situation.

Saying it and doing it are two different things. If he has no means of doing it than how is he suppose to do it even if he wanted to. It wasn't until he was given an option with Freya did geass kick in.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Well one can argue that it didn't trigger until Nina said that Freya would save his life. Thus his will had nothing to do with it rather it was if his if his mind registered any possible options for him to live.

Well perhaps that had Nina had not said that then he may have taken another measure to save his life when the geass triggered. Frankly though I think that Nina was just being a raving lunatic that she is. I mean Suzaku actually fired it at Kallen imagine if it hit or she used the radiation wave to block then he would have been at close to ground zero. Pretty counter survival if you ask me.

Originally Posted by musouka

You are trying to split a hair so slender that all you're doing is cutting your fingers instead.

Look, it doesn't matter if he "accepts death" or not--the point is him thinking he's going to die. He could be screaming "I DON'T WANT TO DIEEE" at the top of his lungs and the geass would kick in because the condition of "host thinks his life is in mortal danger" has been met. The geass is "LIVE" not "don't kill yourself".

I have already stated my stance and supported it with evidence of what the show has shown us and rather then refuting the same points again and again, if you disagree then perhaps use some examples from the show to prove that I am spliting a hair so slender that all I am doing is cutting my fingers.

[hero147]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Saying it and doing it are two different things. If he has no means of doing it than how is he suppose to do it even if he wanted to. It wasn't until he was given an option with Freya did geass kick in.

He wasn't that desperate when Nina was shouting, he believed he could still fight. When given two choices, life or death, whenever Suzaku chooses death, Geass kicks in. Geass isn't seed mode....It can only do whatever the user is capable of doing.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by hero147

If he said "I dont want to diee" in essence he would be trying to escape the situation he is in, he is metaphorically "living on" . The geass only activates when Suzaku wants to choose death over life, to atone for his sins. The geass chooses its path for Suzaku. A geass can't complete what its user can't do, shown when Lelouch questioned Cornelia about his mother's situation.

Even if he was to say he didn't want to die out loud deep down in his heart he knows he was/is going to die. And i don't think the geass activates when he wants to choose death of life..you remember when the soldier tried to kill him.he didn't even think about choosing death over life