To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - Genesis Testament 10 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

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Originally Posted by Endscape

Soyaku To Aru Majutsu no Index 10
Author: Kamachi Kazuma
Illustrator: Haimura Kiyotaka
Release Date: April 10, 2024
Pages: 360
ISBN: 978-4-04-915601-0

Spoiler for summary:

In the "Transcendents" arc, chaos ensues!

Alice AnotherBible.

The girl who was supposed to be dead unexpectedly resurrects in a surprising form.

Index, who witnesses this, falls into a predicament. However, only Othinus, who was with her, manages to escape and successfully conveys the crisis to Kamijou Touma, who is hospitalized.

And after hearing from Othinus, Kamijou Touma clenches his fist once again. He will definitely save Index.

...Did you think that would be enough?

I'm not sure how much I can do to help you.

I don't care if I have to punch you in the face.

I, the misfortunate one, will "save them all the right way" and make a happy ending in this world that's about to end!

Spoiler for cover image:

[Endscape]

Well, the death that was in the cards since GT5 finally occurred. I'm pretty interested to see how this little roadtrip will end up.

Seems shmaster was correct (kinda) with his idea about Alice's real identity.

[Kryn]

I wonder if Othinus would be affected by what happened to big T.

[BladeMancer]

Hooooly shit.
Next volume is gonna be crazy. With the implications of it, not gonna spoil much but we might get to see Lucifer possibly. Or some other shenanigans may happen, but the whole lucifer plotline has just become so much more likely

[Kuroageha]

Hope Kamachi doesn't bails out on the potential plot as he did before.

[shmaster]

I can't stand thus volume.
Kingsford end up being a plot device just to bail Touma out of his consequences?
I am actually angry this time. Kingsford stoop down to the level of another Touma baby sitter, so Touma will never learn a lesson because he will always get bailed out.

Vol.11 will totally be a story of Touma going through labor and trials to fulfill the requirements for coming back to life. Ugh, the idea alone horrifies me. As it'll be a volume full of excuses on how Touma deserve not to pay any price of his actions as long as he can cone up with excuse 1 2 and 3.
Please, please open vol.11 with Aleister reanimating Touma with machines like he did to Kingsford so volume.11 won't become a volume of excuses for Touma to come back to life.

Really, might just not let Touma die in the first place if he will be alive again. It is more consistent with his character too if she just call out the future his going to die is just another illusion and he'll break it like all other.
Or is this just another Touma hypocrisy? Just a moment ago he beat CRC with brute force and give up on the chance he and CRC can be friends. Then Touma why didn't you think about not dying so you can reconcile with Alice and become friends again? Why did you accept dying and leave her behind?

And I can't say I am satisfied with the reveal on Alice either. Nothing was really done to the fact she is actually Alice Liddel. She being Alice Liddel is solely for the mechanics of her power and nothing to do with her character.
Her parallel with Anna is also on a very superficial level only.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I can't stand thus volume.
Kingsford end up being a plot device just to bail Touma out of his consequences?
I am actually angry this time. Kingsford stoop down to the level of another Touma baby sitter, so Touma will never learn a lesson because he will always get bailed out.

Vol.11 will totally be a story of Touma going through labor and trials to fulfill the requirements for coming back to life. Ugh, the idea alone horrifies me. As it'll be a volume full of excuses on how Touma deserve not to pay any price of his actions as long as he can cone up with excuse 1 2 and 3.
Please, please open vol.11 with Aleister reanimating Touma with machines like he did to Kingsford so volume.11 won't become a volume of excuses for Touma to come back to life.

Really, might just not let Touma die in the first place if he will be alive again. It is more consistent with his character too if she just call out the future his going to die is just another illusion and he'll break it like all other.
Or is this just another Touma hypocrisy? Just a moment ago he beat CRC with brute force and give up on the chance he and CRC can be friends. Then Touma why didn't you think about not dying so you can reconcile with Alice and become friends again? Why did you accept dying and leave her behind?

Touma dying because of the same stuff you criticized him for last volume isn't consequences?

Touma's death was set in stone since 22R and he himself only made it happen faster with what happened in GT9 so how can you criticize him because he didn't just stop himself from dying?

And I can't say I am satisfied with the reveal on Alice either. Nothing was really done to the fact she is actually Alice Liddel. She being Alice Liddel is solely for the mechanics of her power and nothing to do with her character.

What's important about her being Alice is that she was essentially a victim of circumstance based on nonsense Aleister spouted while high or something.

Her whole character is based on people using her for her power and not being interested in who she is as a person. Her whole life was thrown out of whack simply because she had the same name as a fairy tale character. That's why it had to be Alice.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Touma dying because of the same stuff you criticized him for last volume isn't consequences?

Touma's death was set in stone since 22R and he himself only made it happen faster with what happened in GT9 so how can you criticize him because he didn't just stop himself from dying?

It will be a consequence if Kingsford is not bailing him out.
As a reader, this death is just a joke because we xan see it miles ahead it'll quickly gets undone.
This also creates an inconsistencies in Touma's hypocrisy. Despite how much I like to criticize it, that is his core characteristics. If the consistency breaks, his character breaks.
His death is highly influenced by Alice's super power, the whole whatever Alice said is true effect.
So by this alone, his death is just another illusion that should be shattered by him. And if that's just another illusion, it nakes no sense for Touma to accept death instead of remaining alive to be friends with Alice again.

Her whole character is based on people using her for her power and not being interested in who she is as a person. Her whole life was thrown out of whack simply because she had the same name as a fairy tale character. That's why it had to be Alice.

I know, which is why this is completely mechanics based.
While the basis of her current trauma is just "I am experimented by some magician and people never look at me but my power". Which can be anyone.
Being Alice Liddle is just an explanation of her power.
I was expecting her trauma originated from something between her and Lewis Carrol. But no, she just happen to be experimented by some random magician.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

It will be a consequence if Kingsford is not bailing him out.
As a reader, this death is just a joke because we xan see it miles ahead it'll quickly gets undone.

Even if he does come back, dying for 3 days or however long until he comes back is still a consequence, not to mention how it'll make Index who was bawling while was carried away or the rest of his friends feel.

This also creates an inconsistencies in Touma's hypocrisy. Despite how much I like to criticize it, that is his core characteristics. If the consistency breaks, his character breaks.
His death is highly influenced by Alice's super power, the whole whatever Alice said is true effect.
So by this alone, his death is just another illusion that should be shattered by him. And if that's just another illusion, it nakes no sense for Touma to accept death instead of remaining alive to be friends with Alice again.

Alice influenced his death but she didn't cause it, she just made a 99% certainty into 100%.

It was inevitable ever since 22R and he himself only made it worse with what he did last volume. He can't negate that. You're acting like he chose to die when he could have lived or something

He could have taken Alice with him but chose not to. That's how he takes responsibility for his choices.

I know, which is why this is completely mechanics based.
While the basis of her current trauma is just "I am experimented by some magician and people never look at me but my power". Which can be anyone.
Being Alice Liddle is just an explanation of her power.
I was expecting her trauma originated from something between her and Lewis Carrol. But no, she just happen to be experimented by some random magician.

Why would you expect that?

Making her Alice Liddel is simply because that's the best real life exploration of a real person made into a fairy tale.

Like all Transcendants, the whole point is that giving up on yourself to pretend to be someone else for the sake of your goals only debases your own life and goals.

Unlike all the others, she didn't choose it, it was chosen for her. That's the tragedy of her character.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Even if he does come back, dying for 3 days or however long until he comes back is still a consequence, not to mention how it'll make Index who was bawling while was carried away or the rest of his friends feel.



Alice influenced his death but she didn't cause it, she just made a 99% certainty into 100%.

It was inevitable ever since 22R and he himself only made it worse with what he did last volume. He can't negate that. You're acting like he chose to die when he could have lived or something

He could have taken Alice with him but chose not to. That's how he takes responsibility for his choices.

And Touma isn't the type of person who'll fight for that 1% chance?
This Touma, who says so what to whatever reasons before him as long as he can make whoever he currently wants to save to be happy.
This is just poor writing to me. Touma who has always fought no matter how little his chances are, suddenly think Alice is a good point to stop, just so another Touma death can happen, which we know will contributes nothing because Touma is not going to learn anything anyway.
Having 1% cgance of survival is more than enough to make him calling his death a bullshit and shatter the illusion with full force.

Making her Alice Liddel is simply because that's the best real life exploration of a real person made into a fairy tale.

Like all Transcendants, the whole point is that giving up on yourself to pretend to be someone else for the sake of your goals only debases your own life and goals.

Unlike all the others, she didn't choose it, it was chosen for her. That's the tragedy of her character.

And this model can ve applied to any real life individual who have fictions based on them.
That's a lot of people and can be anyone.
Alice being the choice is entirely mechanical as that can tie Aleister related theme into it and give her the power she had.
Alice Liddle as a person is not important here.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

And Touma isn't the type of person who'll fight for that 1% chance?
This Touma, who says so what to whatever reasons before him as long as he can make whoever he currently wants to save to be happy.
This is just poor writing to me. Touma who has always fought no matter how little his chances are, suddenly think Alice is a good point to stop, just so another Touma death can happen, which we know will contributes nothing because Touma is not going to learn anything anyway.
Having 1% cgance of survival is more than enough to make him calling his death a bullshit and shatter the illusion with full force.

You're missing the point. This is not an illusion. It's reality.

Like Tsuchimikado said to Touma way back when, you can't cure AIDS or Ebola with a can-do attitude. Touma died of an illness he couldn't fix. Did you already forget NT9? Touma isn't a god, there's stuff he can't fix no matter how hard he tries.

Honestly, the more I think on it, the more I think this death spirit quest thing is good for Touma, there's much he still needs to learn about himself and Kingsford is the origin of his karma so she's the best guide for him.

And this model can ve applied to any real life individual who have fictions based on them.
That's a lot of people and can be anyone.
Alice being the choice is entirely mechanical as that can tie Aleister related theme into it and give her the power she had.
Alice Liddle as a person is not important here.

Not sure what exactly you expected Kamachi to do exactly. You bring up Lewis Carroll but he is part of the trauma just like Trismegistus and Aleister. He used a real person as fodder for his fairy tale without any concern for her and how it would affect her.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Endscape

You're missing the point. This is not an illusion. It's reality.

Like Tsuchimikado said to Touma way back when, you can't cure AIDS or Ebola with a can-do attitude. Touma died of an illness he couldn't fix. Did you already forget NT9? Touma isn't a god, there's stuff he can't fix no matter how hard he tries.

Honestly, the more I think on it, the more I think this death spirit quest thing is good for Touma, there's much he still needs to learn about himself and Kingsford is the origin of his karma so she's the best guide for him.

I won won't mind Touma die trying. Hell, I want him to fail and die.
But the clearly the writing doesn't want Touma to fail, so Touma suddenly gave up fighting for that 1% that he has always fought for regardless it is possible goal or not.
That's how hard the writing tries not to fault Touma. There is no failure if one doesn't fight for it the first place. Then Touma make it out fine again with a death that is not going to kill him.
I really want to look at Kamachi's list of plot armors, the man always have bail out for Touma.

N

Not sure what exactly you expected Kamachi to do exactly. You bring up Lewis Carroll but he is part of the trauma just like Trismegistus and Aleister. He used a real person as fodder for his fairy tale without any concern for her and how it would affect her.

Because I want a satisfying back story for the major boss of the story arc?
Look at Aleister, his back story actually utilized his background as Aleister Crowley. The whole Golden Cabal plot thread is not something easily replaceable.
Alice on the other hand can be substituted by any real life figure that has fiction regarding them. She is only chosen because she can be given that type of power.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I won won't mind Touma die trying. Hell, I want him to fail and die.
But the clearly the writing doesn't want Touma to fail, so Touma suddenly gave up fighting for that 1% that he has always fought for regardless it is possible goal or not.
That's how hard the writing tries not to fault Touma. There is no failure if one doesn't fight for it the first place. Then Touma make it out fine again with a death that is not going to kill him.
I really want to look at Kamachi's list of plot armors, the man always have bail out for Touma.

These are the consequences you claim to want for Touma.

He chose Sprengel over CRC and his payment for that is the death that would have come eventually happening today. If there was any 1% chance of him being cured he himself failed at grasping it when he made that choice.

Touma can't use Imagine Breaker to punch illness fixed. This isn't like what happened with Sprengel where he was poisoned and there was a cure available.

This volume is all about Touma failing. He failed to save himself by not even noticing the danger he was in, he failed to save Alice again and he failed by leaving his friends alone with her on Earth.

Because I want a satisfying back story for the major boss of the story arc?
Look at Aleister, his back story actually utilized his background as Aleister Crowley. The whole Golden Cabal plot thread is not something easily replaceable.
Alice on the other hand can be substituted by any real life figure that has fiction regarding them. She is only chosen because she can be given that type of power.

And Alice's story utilized her existence as Alice Liddell. You're upset because what, it could have been applied to some random person, as if there's someone else who fits.

[TURI123456]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Touma dying because of the same stuff you criticized him for last volume isn't consequences?

Touma's death was set in stone since 22R and he himself only made it happen faster with what happened in GT9 so how can you criticize him because he didn't just stop himself from dying?



What's important about her being Alice is that she was essentially a victim of circumstance based on nonsense Aleister spouted while high or something.

Her whole character is based on people using her for her power and not being interested in who she is as a person. Her whole life was thrown out of whack simply because she had the same name as a fairy tale character. That's why it had to be Alice.

What is the meaning of "22R" and "GT9"?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by TURI123456

What is the meaning of "22R" and "GT9"?

New Testament 22R and Genesis Testament 9.