[Manga] Naruto Chapter 550 Discussion

[grey_1960]

Crow
I always wondered what that crow was that itachi stuffed in Naruto mouth. It was a safety switch. I think if anyone could give the 4th, 1st, and Madara a run for there money, it would be Itachi. If it were not for his sacrifices or the Uchiha affair he would have been a worthy candidate for the 5th or 6th Hokage.

[epyon96]

Next chapter we get to see if Itachi can match up to a rinnigan user at close to full power.

It's time to see him dance a little. I imagine this would be a difficult fight for even the likes of Itachi. It would be able to settle more or less the differences in strength between Itachi and Pein.

[AnbuItachi]

since both are immortal, the only way for either to win is thru soul sucking, or sealing

[farhan]

next week double episode eh?

[Ushio the Omega]

Not really relevant but I was bored so I thought I would compare how many volumes of Naruto sold in Japan and the US in 2010.

Japan simple 7,409,608 copies over 53 volumes

http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/ne...by-series/2010

USA 403,293 copies over 49 volumes based on between 60-70% of the market.

here

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=30752

and here

http://www.comicbookresources.com/im...10-TOP-750.xls

[Hisoka??]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

So wait, Itachi was planning to use the crow to essentially Geass Sasuke once he transplanted Itachi's eyes into himself.

But now the crow already used that command to free Itachi from Kabuto, and now it will take another 10 years to use it again. So now, it can't be used on Sasuke right?

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that Itachi doesn't seem at all fazed that his plan just got shot? He even says "good, it came out" at the start of the chapter. What's up with that? Isn't the crow useless against Sasuke now?

I'm guessing fighting a zombie Itachi is enough of a critical danger for him to consider that exchanging his Sasuke plan is worth it. Besides, he is now "alive" and he can approach Sasuke and persuade him slowly. And Sasuke has no way to stop him since he is now truly immortal and his genjutsu is better than his.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Hisoka??

I'm guessing fighting a zombie Itachi is enough of a critical danger for him to consider that exchanging his Sasuke plan is worth it. Besides, he is now "alive" and he can approach Sasuke and persuade him slowly. And Sasuke has no way to stop him since he is now truly immortal and his genjutsu is better than his.

I find it extremely unlikely that Itachi will have anything to do with Sasuke from now on. I thought this chapter proved quite well that Itachi was fully willing to pass the torch, as it were, of protecting Sasuke on to Naruto. For him to be involved with Sasuke afterwards would go against that.

Then again, it's not written in stone or anything, so I guess it could feasibly happen.

[ragnos007]

Originally Posted by haegar

I doubt that that particular hax genjutsu can be dispelled by a simple pat on the shoulder

Of course it would. How do you dispel genjutsu? You disrupt the chakra flow. If you can't do it yourself then someone else has to push their chakra into you and that disrupts it. And we are talking about nagatos chakra here. On top of that, if you remember at the beginning of shippuuden when naruto and co were fighting itachi and naruto got caught up in itachis genjutsu? Naruto tried to dispel it but itachi maintained and changed it by focusing his chakra. In this case the crow isn't maintaining the genjutsu so dispelling it would be a simple task. Shishiu's genjutsu was the strongest because of it's powerful effect on the target, not because of the difficulty to dispel it, that was never mentioned.

Also that all depends on whether or not itachi is still under the genjutsu spell because when you think about it, itachi doesn't have the symptoms of someone under a genjutsu. For one thing shishiu's genjutsu works in a way that makes the target unaware that he is under the spell, and yet itachi is fully aware what happened. Another thing, the order issued by the genjutsu was to protect konoha but he doesn't seem to be following it to the letter, he didn't try to seal nagato up, or anything. He did Amaterasu him and the summons but he doesn't seem to be rampaging with a one track mind. Afterall, itachi said the order that he ebbed into the eye was "protect konoha" nothing more like, live a normal life while you're at it. Itachi is having heart to heart conversations (makes you wonder the affect it would have on sasuke if he got hit with it). It seems to me that the genjutsu and the ET control bonds cancelled each other out. Unless shishiu's genjutsu works similar to tsuyokumi - it lasts for an instance, it is instantaneous but the order is forever ebbed into the brain of the target.

Also I think kishi downplayed naruto at the end of the chapter. The kyuubi mode affords naruto with the ability to sense hostile intentions, he should have been able to sense nagato before he shines tenseied bee, unless by kabuto turning nagato into a mindless killing machine, naruto can't sense hostility in nagato. However, even if he couldn't sense nagatos thoughts, dont you people think naruto should have at least been able to sense the summons intentions and avoided getting caught? Unless nagato controls the summons through the chakra receptors that the summons are still writled with (makes sense). Or perhaps naruto hesitated from the confusion of being able to sense something but not see it ( also possible).

I hope these are explained

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by ragnos007

Also that all depends on whether or not itachi is still under the genjutsu spell because when you think about it, itachi doesn't have the symptoms of someone under a genjutsu. For one thing shishiu's genjutsu works in a way that makes the target unaware that he is under the spell, and yet itachi is fully aware what happened. Another thing, the order issued by the genjutsu was to protect konoha but he doesn't seem to be following it to the letter, he didn't try to seal nagato up, or anything. He did Amaterasu him and the summons but he doesn't seem to be rampaging with a one track mind. Afterall, itachi said the order that he ebbed into the eye was "protect konoha" nothing more like, live a normal life while you're at it. Itachi is having heart to heart conversations (makes you wonder the affect it would have on sasuke if he got hit with it). It seems to me that the genjutsu and the ET control bonds cancelled each other out. Unless shishiu's genjutsu works similar to tsuyokumi - it lasts for an instance, it is instantaneous but the order is forever ebbed into the brain of the target.

We know too little about this genjutsu to take any of the normal rules of dispelling genjutsu as fact, really. If nothing else, that the jutsu has a ten year recharge time strongly implies it being considerably different to other genjutsu; it being more difficult/impossible to dispel would be, while disappointing if its mechanics go unexplained, not surprising at all.

As for the order it leaves, I have to assume it is a vague guideline to follow rather than a Geass-eque, "Drop everything and worry only about my order," type of deal. If that were the case I sincerely doubt Itachi would have used it; while he may not be above subtly coercing Sasuke away from Madara, I doubt he'd go ahead and turn Sasuke into a mindless shield to guard Konoha. Again, I hope it's explained clearly, but it seems unlikely that it should operate any way but the way it currently is on Itachi.

[Nobodyman9]

Okay, so let's talk about why this was a terrible chapter.

-"That genjutsu is an order to protect the village of Konoha." -Okay, so overriding Kabuto's control I get, but shouldn't this new command be making him immediately protect Konoha in whatever way he can? It looks like it's just given him free will. Shouldn't he be going off to fight all of Kabuto/Madara's forces instead of just standing around and expositing everything? To what degree of control does this jutsu have?

-Okay, seriously, what is up with Shisui? He's only been mentioned once or twice, but apparently he was the best genjutsu user in the whole Uchiha clan? Why does he have a special jutsu that no other Uchiha has? How does this fit in with anything?

-I know it's been mentioned before, but how does zombie Itachi still have the sharingan? Does this mean there are effectively two sets of Itachi's eyes running around?

-"I embedded the command "protect Konoha" as a genjutus into Shisui's eye." -Umm...how? And furthermore how did he "rig the crow." Oh right, it's ninja magic, so they can do anything that's convenient for the plot.

-"If the brother I left behind became a threat to the village, as the keeper of Shisui's eye, it would mean I betrayed his trust." -...........WHAT?!!!! How does that follow anything you were talking about? What does that have to do with self-sacrifice or you safeguarding Shisui's eye?

-"I believed Sasuke would transplant my eyes." - Why would you believe that? Weren't you trying to keep Sasuke away from the path of vengeance and power-hungriness? You seemed surprised when you heard that Madara had told Sasuke the truth, so obviously you weren't counting on that.

-"Shisui's Mangekyo requires at least another decade to activate, discounting Senju Hashirama's chakra, unlikely as that is." .......Hoo boy this is a doozy. Okay, aside from the arbitrariness of the 10 year limit, which is a completely transparent plot convience, how the hell did anyone ascertain that Hashirama's chakra reduced the limit on Shisui's Mangekyo? I mean, I know people have been making a big deal about his chakra recently, but what does his chakra have to do with the Sharingan? And if I understand correctly, the Akomatsukami or whatever it is is a very specific technique that only one person is able to use, so how did anyone come to the conclusion of, "Hey, let's take the chakra of this powerful shinobi dude and apply it to a technique that only this one Uchiha dude is able to use, despite the fact that Hashirama's chakra has shown to have no effect on any other Sharingan technique............well waddya know?! It worked!" Seriously, I must be missing something here, because this makes no damn sense.

-Oh, and not to mention that Itachi's entire plan is mind control. As in free-will-destroying mind control. This is what he wants to do to his little brother whom he supposedly loved (well, I guess it fits in with massacring his clan right in front of him)? And we're supposed to see this as a noble act?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

-"That genjutsu is an order to protect the village of Konoha." -Okay, so overriding Kabuto's control I get, but shouldn't this new command be making him immediately protect Konoha in whatever way he can? It looks like it's just given him free will. Shouldn't he be going off to fight all of Kabuto/Madara's forces instead of just standing around and expositing everything? To what degree of control does this jutsu have?

"Protect Konoha" is actually a fairly unspecific command. What si Konoha? The buildings? The civilians? Other shinobi? Naruto being a Konoha-nin could meet all the demands of the jutsu. Or, the genjutsu could conceivably leave the protection up to the victims interpretation. Additionally, what happens when the genjutsus demands are met? Does the victim revert to normal?

Whatever the case, the genjutsu is supposed to literally change the mind of the victim, and that is what it did this chapter.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

-Okay, seriously, what is up with Shisui? He's only been mentioned once or twice, but apparently he was the best genjutsu user in the whole Uchiha clan? Why does he have a special jutsu that no other Uchiha has? How does this fit in with anything?

Yeah, all this genjutsu stuff really came out of left field. Why the hell was he known as Shisui the Shuushin if his major power was always genjutsu (that everyone seems to know about)?

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

-I know it's been mentioned before, but how does zombie Itachi still have the sharingan? Does this mean there are effectively two sets of Itachi's eyes running around?

Yes, or at least a facsimile of his real body. The Edo Tensei body was created from a gene sample of Itachi's, so of course it would have the same Sharingan. And, the mind/soul/whatever influences the "evolution" of the Sharingan to the MS.

You guess is as good a smine for your other "questions"...

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by james0246

"Protect Konoha" is actually a fairly unspecific command. What si Konoha? The buildings? The civilians? Other shinobi? Naruto being a Konoha-nin could meet all the demands of the jutsu. Or, the genjutsu could conceivably leave the protection up to the victims interpretation. Additionally, what happens when the genjutsus demands are met? Does the victim revert to normal?

Well, it's comforting to know that that loophole logic could apply to Sasuke as well, potentially making Itachi's plan utterly useless.

Whatever the case, the genjutsu is supposed to literally change the mind of the victim, and that is what it did this chapter.

Actually, it really didn't change Itachi's mind. It just gave him control of his body again.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by james0246

"Protect Konoha" is actually a fairly unspecific command. What si Konoha? The buildings? The civilians? Other shinobi? Naruto being a Konoha-nin could meet all the demands of the jutsu. Or, the genjutsu could conceivably leave the protection up to the victims interpretation. Additionally, what happens when the genjutsus demands are met? Does the victim revert to normal?

It could be any of those, it could be all of those. Whichever the case, it would mean Sasuke ceases to be a threat to Konoha because at any rate, he wouldn't cause anyone or anything to do with Konoha harm. That was the purpose of the genjutsu in the end. Itachi didn't want Sasuke to destroy what he sacrificed himself to protect after all, so even if it meant Sasuke would do nothing, Itachi's genjutsu would be successful in its intent.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Well, I think the bottom line is that the genjutsu, whatever its originally intended purpose, epically failed. Since Itachi is dead anyway, just giving him control over his body again doesn't help our heroes all that much. On the other hand, Sasuke is still running amok. WITH ITACHI'S REAL EYES.

I got no clue where Kishi is going with all these pointless revelations about Shisui. In the end, the crow that Kishi had so nicely set up as a secret weapon for use in the future has more or less gone to the dogs... a real shame. I seriously thought it was going to be better than "interesting setup that fails anyway". That'll teach me to have expectations.

[haegar]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Well, I think the bottom line is that the genjutsu, whatever its originally intended purpose, epically failed. Since Itachi is dead anyway, just giving him control over his body again doesn't help our heroes all that much. On the other hand, Sasuke is still running amok. WITH ITACHI'S REAL EYES.

I got no clue where Kishi is going with all these pointless revelations about Shisui. In the end, the crow that Kishi had so nicely set up as a secret weapon for use in the future has more or less gone to the dogs... a real shame. I seriously thought it was going to be better than "interesting setup that fails anyway". That'll teach me to have expectations.

Well as mentioned already, apparently there are elements of both asspull and wtf?!cameoutanowhere!!! to all this and certainly it did not work the way Itachi intended it to. But fact is he himself doesn't seem particularly annoyed by that hence I woulndt put him with the dogs just yet (btw dont insult Pakun, he's cool ) So, yeah, maybe there is a backup to the backup - or Itachi is confident that in this to him suprising turn of events he nontheless can do something in his current state that is as helpfull to Naruto (and thus to Konoha/Sasuske) as the crow or even more - though of course he might simply have that blissful smile plastered on his face cause he is so smiten with Naruto's development (OMG, all my plans failed, but saviour Naruto will set things right for his Kyubi mode is over9000) I hope the later is not the case

[Casshern]

I think Kishi just decided to have Sasuke and Naruto fight without any external interference, and the crow would have counted as a pretty huge interference regardless of what its function was. Just speculating, but if that's Kishi's plan then I prefer it this way.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Casshern

I think Kishi just decided to have Sasuke and Naruto fight without any external interference, and the crow would have counted as a pretty huge interference regardless of what its function was. Just speculating, but if that's Kishi's plan then I prefer it this way.

Given how long we've been sitting on that crow plot element he could have done any number of things with it. Yeah an all out fight between Naruto and Sasuke without any interference will be cool, but if this is indeed a write-out (and I don't really buy this having been the plan back when he first introduced the crow), it's kind of a poorly planned and annoying one.

But then, I dislike all of these developments with Shisui almost on principle.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Casshern

I think Kishi just decided to have Sasuke and Naruto fight without any external interference, and the crow would have counted as a pretty huge interference regardless of what its function was. Just speculating, but if that's Kishi's plan then I prefer it this way.

Like Akashin said, Kishi could've used the crow in any way he wanted to. For instance, I originally theorized that the crow would serve as a barrier preventing Sasuke from trying to take control of the Kyuubi, as it appears the ability to control it is a trademark technique of the Sharingan. At the beginning of the series, for instance, Sasuke completely repressed the Kyuubi, and this was even before he had the Mangekyou. Sasuke now has the Eternal MS. Naruto's power with the Kyuubi increased, but so too did Sasuke's ability to control it. The crow could've been an effective way to stop Sasuke from taking control like he did before, and we still would've gotten an epic battle.

[Casshern]

I get what your saying but the crow was really a very small plot element that received more attention than it warranted. I mean, some people actually thought it was going to outright kill Sasuke on it's own. Most people reasonably expected it would be some sort of counter for genjutsu but, and this is a big but, if Kishi came up with a better idea then it might just be worth scrapping the crow idea. Anyway, it's just speculation. For all we know Kishi could have intended to use the crow on Itachi all along. If that was his plan then nothing was wasted and everything will make sense later on.

As for the kyuubi, I think most readers pretty much agree that since Naruto took its chakra Sasuke can no longer affect it, because the kyuubi no longer controls it.

What I am more curious about is why koto amatsukami couldn't be resisted. Tsukuyomi can be resisted by another Uchiha with a powerful sharingan, so why couldn't Itachi resist kotoamatsukami with his MS? Is it exempt from being resisted? Pretty uber, no?

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Casshern

I get what your saying but the crow was really a very small plot element that received more attention than it warranted. I mean, some people actually thought it was going to outright kill Sasuke on it's own. Most people reasonably expected it would be some sort of counter for genjutsu but, and this is a big but, if Kishi came up with a better idea then it might just be worth scrapping the crow idea. Anyway, it's just speculation. For all we know Kishi could have intended to use the crow on Itachi all along. If that was his plan then nothing was wasted and everything will make sense later on.

It's entirely possible. For a time back around when we were learning about the Uzumaki/Senju connection I had the thought that Itachi's crow would end up being a part of meeting the conditions for giving Naruto the Rinnegan, similar to however Madara gave it to Nagato. I dreaded the idea honestly, but it made some sense at the time.

As for the kyuubi, I think most readers pretty much agree that since Naruto took its chakra Sasuke can no longer affect it, because the kyuubi no longer controls it.

This is probably true. I say probably because Kishimoto may try to work around that anyway; it wouldn't surprise me if he did. That said, logically the Sharingan should be powerless against Naruto's Kyubi mode.

What I am more curious about is why koto amatsukami couldn't be resisted. Tsukuyomi can be resisted by another Uchiha with a powerful sharingan, so why couldn't Itachi resist kotoamatsukami with his MS? Is it exempt from being resisted? Pretty uber, no?

Just one of the reasons I'm disliking everything surrounding Shisui, really. It would be one thing if Itachi (or perhaps Danzo) had hinted to the true extent of Shisui's power (and ideally, given some explanation as to why), but we were given a genjutsu that by all rights is more powerful than Tsukuyomi with no warning whatsoever. "Oh, I'm a zombie? Well good thing I planted this godly genjutsu in you that just happens to be strong enough to break me from Kabuto's control, then. How lucky is that?"

Bit tough to swallow, that.