To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 22 Discussion / Poll

[WiliamZ0]

Spoiler for shmaster, I'm just curious.:

Is the Dragons part of IB or part of IT ?

I mean, I'm always curious what actually devour IT when it out several times. The Dragon always visible, but IT isn't (well it's Invisible Things ... Like Touma given name 'Invisible Demon'

ALSO ... IT referred as something like 'Fish eggs'?

Demon Lord Touma? lol

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Marina2

Get hunted by Academic City after his action in OT15??

Nope, especially considering that literally nothing came of it, like at all. Heck, he steals the parameter list at some point (which we are conveniently not shown) which he uses intends to use as a "bargaining chip" and NOTHING happens, not even after he loses the it, AC just forgets about.

[WiliamZ0]

To be honest, I'm also disappointed at Hamazura action.
He just too influenced by Kamijou who we know will use that kind of method. I not see that one coming from Hamazura.

Being Touma is suffering

[Chosen_Hero]

^Nope, this is NOTHING like what Touma would do.

[WiliamZ0]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

^Nope, this is NOTHING like what Touma would do.

I know that, but again. Touma most likely sacrifice himself if it's to save others

One other thing ... Is it coincidence DMC and NT 22 not only have release date so close, but feels so similar. I play the game now

Touma = Nero
Accelerator = V / Vergil

Only Hamazura that out of place, comparing him to Dante is a bit, you know what

[45darkrai]

It's only a matter of time before Touma starts feeling like responsible for people being influenced by him. Won't seem like much of a stretch especially when he already gets blamed for not knowing people that died.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by Fortitude

You know after everything that's been going on, i don't think any of us should trust the magic side when it comes to IB.

Terra and Fiamma thought they new about it only to be proven wrong. Aleister and Othinus thinks highly of their knowledge about IB but in this volume that too was proven wrong.

Honestly i think they should have realize that not everything could be easily explain and just accept the unknown.

We never got to know Terra's knowledge.

[Fortitude]

Exactly.

[WiliamZ0]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

We never got to know Terra's knowledge.

For all we know, Terra might be the correct one. No proof of it, but Who knows

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by WiliamZ0

I know that, but again. Touma most likely sacrifice himself if it's to save others

One other thing ... Is it coincidence DMC and NT 22 not only have release date so close, but feels so similar. I play the game now

Touma = Nero
Accelerator = V / Vergil

Only Hamazura that out of place, comparing him to Dante is a bit, you know what

Hamazura is not sacrificing himself to save others, he is actively and willingly putting others (except Takitsubo) in danger due to his actions. Right now he is helping the one being that is trying to kill Lilith (so much for keeping her safe), he actively contemplated on betraying Queen Elizard and to just give away the sword (again, the only reason it is still in his posession is due to bullshit), he is so desperate he is putting his faith on the very demon that is now attacking the world and possibly killing people. Touma would NOT do any of these things even if he was about to die.

Toumas' motto is "there is always a better way to achieve a happy end" which is vastly different from Hamazuras' "I am willing to do ANYTHING to achieve my happy end". If anything, he is sounding like the many antagonists that Touma has faced so far.

So basically Touma isn't just a JoJo (still can't believe this was actually confirmed to be true) a Batman, and a Mcguyver but also a seed of Sparda... I believe that. I mean, he already has a pretty OP devil trigger.

[WiliamZ0]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Hamazura is not sacrificing himself to save others, he is actively and willingly putting others (except Takitsubo) in danger due to his actions. Right now he is helping the one being that is trying to kill Lilith (so much for keeping her safe), he actively contemplated on betraying Queen Elizard and to just give away the sword (again, the only reason it is still in his posession is due to bullshit), he is so desperate he is putting his faith on the very demon that is now attacking the world and possibly killing people. Touma would NOT do any of these things even if he was about to die.

Toumas' motto is "there is always a better way to achieve a happy end" which is vastly different from Hamazuras' "I am willing to do ANYTHING to achieve my happy end". If anything, he is sounding like the many antagonists that Touma has faced so far.

So basically Touma isn't just a JoJo (still can't believe this was actually confirmed to be true) or a Batman, but also a seed of Sparta... I believe that. I mean, he already has a pretty OP devil trigger.

Hee... When you put it that way, I can see Hamazura being Hamazura, but he pay huge because of that. He think his girlfriend safe? No someone targeted her now (according to illustration)

Soon or later, he will pay. He never pay what he done and get off quite lightly compared to other two (Touma and Accelerator, with Touma bullied by author a lot)

I agree with what you say about Touma, but damn... I read other spoiler and

Spoiler for WAITING SHMASTER TO CONFIRM THIS SPOILER BEING FAKE OR REAL:

Dragons and fish eggs are not part of IT and IT tried hard to get away / free. They some kind of security measure to prevent IT to get way when IB removed, by letting part of IT as fuel to summon them to real world to protect their host (Touma)
Also damn how many beings inside Touma, his body is monster's zoo

Coronzon being the retarded demon she is completely (temporarily) removed 'the locks' (implied there are multiples of them, also reasons why IT can sometimes strong and weak) and set IT gaining its power and free near the end. When IB and 'other locks' come back, it appeared they not have enough strength and time to stop IT from breaking free.

Fish egg came out is basically reaction to let IT power reduced as much as possible (basically wasting IT fuel, meaning they used lots of energy)

Aiwass says at the end that IT can also kill him

sorry for the bad english

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by WiliamZ0

For all we know, Terra might be the correct one. No proof of it, but Who knows

We might never will know.

[faiz blaster]

Why do people keep mentioning “fish eggs”?

[Keila]

Originally Posted by faiz blaster

Why do people keep mentioning “fish eggs”?

I'm sure we'll find out in the future. Possibly to eat, or to spawn, or to eat and then spawn.

I mean Accelerator now has his own tentacle monster, would it be that strange if Touma turned out to be some c'thulu type deviant who continually spawned horrors into the world (intentional or not)?

[WiliamZ0]

Originally Posted by faiz blaster

Why do people keep mentioning “fish eggs”?

It's something I hear from someone who read Chinese Spoiler

[Inept Forum User]

Haven't been able to verify it, but I've just seen something very interesting in a chapter review blog entry.

Spoiler for Chapter 3 Part 5 (Unverified):

If I'm reading this correctly, during a conversation between Takitsubo Rikou and Anna Sprengel, Anna describes a means for espers to use magic without side effects.

Edit:

Originally Posted by faiz blaster

Why do people keep mentioning “fish eggs”?

Spoiler for Ch4-Ep (Not fully verified):

Apparently its part of Touma's menagerie.

[WiliamZ0]

Spoiler for About Fish Eggs:

Now some say Fish eggs is IT, but some also say Fish Eggs was the one referred as 'Kamijou Touma' (The One who Purifies God and Slays Demons)

Dragons are part of IB (So it is Imagine Breaker) and final lock before IT released fully

End scene when Anna talked about The One who Purifies God and Slays Demons and Imagine Breaker, referred to those two

I dunno which one is real one now, so confused

[KMH2000]

Originally Posted by WiliamZ0

Spoiler for About Fish Eggs:

Now some say Fish eggs is IT, but some also say Fish Eggs was the one referred as 'Kamijou Touma' (The One who Purifies God and Slays Demons)

Dragons are part of IB (So it is Imagine Breaker) and final lock before IT released fully

End scene when Anna talked about The One who Purifies God and Slays Demons and Imagine Breaker, referred to those two

I dunno which one is real one now, so confused

Spoiler:

I thought that IT was 'Kamijou Touma'? and the fish eggs might be another form of the dragons or something else entirely. That's what I heard anyway

[WiliamZ0]

Originally Posted by KMH2000

Spoiler:

I thought that IT was 'Kamijou Touma'? and the fish eggs might be another form of the dragons or something else entirely. That's what I heard anyway

I actually tried to put some logic thinking into this theory. But let say something like this

Spoiler for Theory about Kamijou Touma:

Kamijou Touma is the actual name of the boy. He already have IB from his very childhood but discovered it when moved to Academy City.
Most of us now by now IT was inside Kamijou Touma, but we don't know when and somehow Aleister learnt about it and incorporate it into his plan as revealed in NT18 when Aiwass say Aleister making detours.
I do think, about what Aleister say to Fiamma in OT 22 about 'temple', at first I though Aleister used IB to summon IT. But if that the idea, how come IT always devour by 'giant maw of something'. We know Kamijou had Dragon and this giant maw might belong to Dragons to stop IT from leaking out

OT 19 say DRAGON is everywhere and Aiwass can be referred as DRAGON. Aiwass say it isn't wrong but not correct way to adress it, we also know Aiwass body is based from Kazakiri Hyouka who is "AIM being. Maybe this DRAGON is IT and at same time is AIM that ESPer let out. What if IB acted as Temple to gather this? Temple by its own is place where people gathered to pray. The concept is similar, By letting Kamijou lived in world full of ESPer, IT gathered and lived inside Kamijou Touma

IT can be something that naturally existed in pure world. As Aiwass say something like this
“Ha ha!! It seems to have grown some, but it still has a long way to go. And its purity leaves much to be desired. Aleister, you’ve been making detours, haven’t you!?”
Why Aiwass use word 'purity' to IT?

Another point I will address, is this fact
IT power also fluctuating a lot, it seems not that stable or something prevent it to use it highest potential.
So I decided to list damage of Kamijou Touma's right arm:
- Aureolus Izzard cut Kamijou arm and Dragon came out, it seems reacted to Kamijou desire to freak the hell out Aureolus (is eating him counted?)
- Misaka 5.3 power cut Kamijou arm and Dragon came out, it seems reacted to Kamijou save Misaka and The Dragon ate all of it, leaving Misaka all alone.
- Fiamma take IB fully to incorperate IB into his HR, but getting scared of IT before giant maw crushed it and IB returned to Kamijou Touma. Rather than desire, Kamijou forcefully pushed it with other power (Giant Maw crushing IT).
- Othinus cut Touma's wrist and IT out and crushing it easily
- During fight against Othinus (both infinite hell and Denmark), Kamijou right arm damaged and IT started to leaking out but Kamijou suppressed it
- Kamisato removed IB but get pawned by IT offscreen. Kamijou referred IT power different a lot compared to time when IT fight Othinus
- Aiwass bent Kamijou arm and letting IT out but Aiwass crushed it, it seems Aiwass aware of something and being careful not to let Kamijou arm removed

Depends on how far the damage Kamijou right arm get, The one out either IT or Dragon. With Dragons reacting to his desire and IT do whatever it wished and only stopped when Kamijou forced it to go away.

Other thing need to be address is the fact IB used in past in different forms and names.
Imagine Breaker has wandered the edges of history as a reference point for the world. It has existed in a variety of forms: people, objects, places, and buildings

But nothing in the past about IB that related to current situation with IT. They just happened to cross path inside Kamijou Touma

Finally, I want to address is Kamijou Touma relationship with IB and IT

First his range of control over IT:
He can call it back (Fiamma, Kamisato).
He almost unleash IT at will even with his arm attached (HP) with his right arm create cracking sounds that Misaka heard herself

Second his dominance over IB:
During Fiamma fight IB has proven to be his body's private property.
Also if we take Terrra's word, Kamijou Touma is not using his hand properly.

This all make me think that IB and Dragon are the same. And Kamijou right arm are locks that prevent IT out. IT = Fish eggs, most of time it become uncontrollable if Kamijou didn't react to stop it.

Losing IT didn't meant he lose IB. But most IB power used to prevent IT from coming out.

Just a theory, a fan theory!

[Callum18]

Originally Posted by WiliamZ0

I actually tried to put some logic thinking into this theory. But let say something like this

Spoiler for Theory about Kamijou Touma:

Kamijou Touma is the actual name of the boy. He already have IB from his very childhood but discovered it when moved to Academy City.
Most of us now by now IT was inside Kamijou Touma, but we don't know when and somehow Aleister learnt about it and incorporate it into his plan as revealed in NT18 when Aiwass say Aleister making detours.
I do think, about what Aleister say to Fiamma in OT 22 about 'temple', at first I though Aleister used IB to summon IT. But if that the idea, how come IT always devour by 'giant maw of something'. We know Kamijou had Dragon and this giant maw might belong to Dragons to stop IT from leaking out

OT 19 say DRAGON is everywhere and Aiwass can be referred as DRAGON. Aiwass say it isn't wrong but not correct way to adress it, we also know Aiwass body is based from Kazakiri Hyouka who is "AIM being. Maybe this DRAGON is IT and at same time is AIM that ESPer let out. What if IB acted as Temple to gather this? Temple by its own is place where people gathered to pray. The concept is similar, By letting Kamijou lived in world full of ESPer, IT gathered and lived inside Kamijou Touma

IT can be something that naturally existed in pure world. As Aiwass say something like this
“Ha ha!! It seems to have grown some, but it still has a long way to go. And its purity leaves much to be desired. Aleister, you’ve been making detours, haven’t you!?”
Why Aiwass use word 'purity' to IT?

Another point I will address, is this fact
IT power also fluctuating a lot, it seems not that stable or something prevent it to use it highest potential.
So I decided to list damage of Kamijou Touma's right arm:
- Aureolus Izzard cut Kamijou arm and Dragon came out, it seems reacted to Kamijou desire to freak the hell out Aureolus (is eating him counted?)
- Misaka 5.3 power cut Kamijou arm and Dragon came out, it seems reacted to Kamijou save Misaka and The Dragon ate all of it, leaving Misaka all alone.
- Fiamma take IB fully to incorperate IB into his HR, but getting scared of IT before giant maw crushed it and IB returned to Kamijou Touma. Rather than desire, Kamijou forcefully pushed it with other power (Giant Maw crushing IT).
- Othinus cut Touma's wrist and IT out and crushing it easily
- During fight against Othinus (both infinite hell and Denmark), Kamijou right arm damaged and IT started to leaking out but Kamijou suppressed it
- Kamisato removed IB but get pawned by IT offscreen. Kamijou referred IT power different a lot compared to time when IT fight Othinus
- Aiwass bent Kamijou arm and letting IT out but Aiwass crushed it, it seems Aiwass aware of something and being careful not to let Kamijou arm removed

Depends on how far the damage Kamijou right arm get, The one out either IT or Dragon. With Dragons reacting to his desire and IT do whatever it wished and only stopped when Kamijou forced it to go away.

Other thing need to be address is the fact IB used in past in different forms and names.
Imagine Breaker has wandered the edges of history as a reference point for the world. It has existed in a variety of forms: people, objects, places, and buildings

But nothing in the past about IB that related to current situation with IT. They just happened to cross path inside Kamijou Touma

Finally, I want to address is Kamijou Touma relationship with IB and IT

First his range of control over IT:
He can call it back (Fiamma, Kamisato).
He almost unleash IT at will even with his arm attached (HP) with his right arm create cracking sounds that Misaka heard herself

Second his dominance over IB:
During Fiamma fight IB has proven to be his body's private property.
Also if we take Terrra's word, Kamijou Touma is not using his hand properly.

This all make me think that IB and Dragon are the same. And Kamijou right arm are locks that prevent IT out. IT = Fish eggs, most of time it become uncontrollable if Kamijou didn't react to stop it.

Losing IT didn't meant he lose IB. But most IB power used to prevent IT from coming out.

Just a theory, a fan theory!

Nice theory!. I'm going to wait untill JS06 finishes NT22 before I put my own theory down. I need to have a better context on what's going on, because at the min I'm a little confuse.