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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - Episode 37 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 10 | 33.33% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 12 | 40.00% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 6 | 20.00% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 2 | 6.67% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll |
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2016-12-24, 17:00 | Link #162 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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I think people tend to underestimate Carta and Iok, largely because they inhabit a universe also occupied by the likes of Mika, Gali-Gali, Shino, Akihiro, etc.
We see in Iok's debut that he's actually a pretty brilliant sniper, able to make shots that the Dawn Horizon Corps guy outright calls impossible -- and that idea shows up again when he snipes Hashmal from a fair distance. When Mika says that he's not going to dodge because it'd make it easier for him to be hit, that's not him deriding Iok's skills: Speeding straight ahead too fast for the shots to land really is the best way of avoiding those shots. Similarly, Carta clearly commands the confidence of her men. She's not like Iok, whose men are constantly urging her not to enter battle, and she actually seems to be held in at least somewhat high esteem by Gali, who is a very good pilot. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that, actually, Carta might be a pretty good pilot. What Iok and Carta do have in common is that they're both abysmal soldiers. Carta has almost no battlefield experience and truly, fundamentally doesn't understand how a battle works -- she treats everything like it's an honourable duel, when that's just not what war is. Iok, meanwhile, seemingly has more battlefield experience but is unfortunately a complete idiot. That's -- that's it, that's his problem, he's skilled but blisteringly stupid. He seems to have zero idea of how to accurately gauge the threats in front of him, and he's an unremitting glory hound. Also, I mean, even if they are good pilots compared to most people in-universe, that doesn't make them good compared to most of the named characters in-series, most of whom are the best of the best.
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2016-12-25, 13:31 | Link #166 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Honestly, I don't, because I don't have a good explanation for that. It is totally at odds with what we saw and were told about him in the battle against the Dawn Horizon Corps, and what we see of him when he snipes Hashmal from a pretty significant distance, and the only thing I can think of is that the writer for that episode forgot that Iok's meant to be a good sniper, just a terrible soldier.
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2016-12-25, 20:09 | Link #167 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
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I don't remember the battle with the Dawn Horizon Corps very well, but I'm pretty sure Iok was engaging in close/mid-range combat when fighting the colonies tdx was talking about. If he was trained as a sniper, his forte should be long-range combat.
And, given what we've seen of him so far, it wouldn't surprise me if the quality of Iok's sniping depended heavily on his emotional state. If he can keep his composure, he'll do a good job. Get him sufficiently riled up and he'll inevitably mess up. |
2016-12-25, 21:39 | Link #169 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Nobody in-universe has said anything about the Reginlaze giving people increased accuracy, though. In fact, Iok's the only person we've seen even trying to snipe in it, and it seems like if that was solely down to the Reginlaze and its weapons, at the very least Julietta would have mentioned as much.
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2016-12-25, 21:46 | Link #170 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Maybe well get more info when the P-Bandai Ioks Reginlaze model gets released Last edited by Skye629; 2016-12-25 at 22:01. |
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2016-12-25, 22:26 | Link #171 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Like, when you have a character with a lot of battle experience specifically drawing attention to how one specific character is making impossible sniping shots, the automatic conclusion there is 'that character is an excellent sniper.' If that's not the case, it warrants explaining. And, with all due respect, it doesn't actually seem like you're using basic reasoning here -- it seems like you started with a conclusion ('Iok is a terrible pilot') and are looking for ways that that can be true. The Reginlaze has been remarked upon by several characters now and has shown up in every arc of the second series in some capacity, and nobody has said anything about it allowing pilots to make impossible shots, nor has anybody even hinted at the idea that Iok's performance in that battle was solely down to his suit. We don't have any indication that Iok has a custom Reginlaze, either, when usually that gets brought up pretty quickly when it's the case. It's not like the show is shy about expositing on the many virtues of its different mechs. Also, there absolutely would be a reason for characters to have explained it if Iok's improbable accuracy was the result of his suit: That battle was the first time Tekkadan had ever seen a Reginlaze, and they were working closely with Isurugi, someone who's familiar with Reginlazes, at the time. Sure, Iok and Julietta know exactly what the Reginlaze can do, but Tekkadan sure didn't. You'd think Isurugi would have warned them pretty quickly if every Reginlaze can pull off accurate shots over longer distances than they're used to, even in the hands of a bad pilot. What we've got is a character singling out Iok in his establishing battle as making impossible sniping shots.
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2016-12-25, 22:57 | Link #172 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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IRC Lok landed exactly three hits, one was on Barbatos and probably lucky shot (Mika himself noting that he would be safe as long as he doesn't try avoid it at all.), second and third was against huge ass Mobile armor. I don't see any implication that he is good sniper out of that.
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2016-12-26, 00:14 | Link #173 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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One Dawn Horizon pilot then points out that that is insanely risky, since his allies are there -- but Julietta says nothing to Iok that suggests she's concerned about him hitting her, instead telling him to shoot at Mika, who she already knows is incredibly fast. That alone tells us in no uncertain terms that Iok is actually a really good sniper. While Mika does say that he's more likely to get hit if he dodges, all that tells us is that moving as fast as he can in a straight line in his absurdly fast machine is the best way to avoid Iok's shots. Which Iok is making from, again, far enough away that the experienced Dawn Horizon pilots don't think it'd even be possible to hit anything from that range, and which are only barely missing Mika. We also see that Iok isn't actually aiming properly when he shoots at Mika -- he's sacrificing accuracy for speed because he's a drooling idiot, and he's still almost hitting the hands-down fastest suit in the series at that point. As far as Hashmal goes -- Hashmal is maybe twice the size of a Gundam, and Iok snipes it from far enough away that none of the Tekkadan members who are watching Hashmal notice he's there until he's already shot. And again, Hashmal is moving at the time -- and moving very quickly, as well.
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2016-12-26, 01:28 | Link #174 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Also the mech profile for Ioks Reginlaze officially states its weaponry was chosen for long range shooting while the suit itself was customized to a support type (i.e. long range firing/sniping). Funnily enough recommended by his subordinates (to keep him out of danger and lower their stress levels I suppose). Personally I think that if we were to take him out of the Reginlaze and stick him in a standard Graze (default configuration with default rifle) his sniping performance would definitely take a hit, regardless of his skill level (due to lack of proper long ranged weapon and tuned MS) I also never said he was a bad pilot, I have seen much worse in this franchise. My assessment of him as a pilot is that overall hes average/mediocre at best in most areas, with above average skills in long range shooting. At the very least the guy have the right tools/setup to be a sniper. Though in a show where ranged weapons of the physical variety is downplayed, his role is definitely more subdued than if he were to be in another Gundam series, that warrants consideration Last edited by Skye629; 2016-12-26 at 01:45. |
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2016-12-26, 09:54 | Link #175 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
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You're being disingenuous, because a character mentioning key information for the viewer is not the same as 'them talking about the ins and outs of every MS.'
We get no suggestions that the Dawn Horizon Corps, who are more than able to give Tekkadan a run for their money even with Tekkadan fielding two Gundams, are somehow unexperienced with long range combat. This is the key problem with both that argument and the 'well, maybe his suit just gives him super-accuracy!' argument: They're not actually arguments, they're fanfiction -- I've given you canonical evidence, and what you've given me in return is just speculation. You can substitute them with anything. Maybe Iok is actually a X-Man with the power of super-sniping, who was sent through an interdimensional portal at birth. Maybe Iok isn't hitting anything at all, but an invisible suit behind him is making shots at the same time he is. Stop backpedaling. It puts a sour taste in my mouth. Ah, yes, of course Isurugi wouldn't know what the suit's abilities are. Because that's how military organisations work -- they don't actually tell their senior officers what the new equipment they're going to get does, they just tell them it's on their way and then it's a delightful surprise when they get it. Isurugi would definitely be totally in the dark about key features of hardware he and his troops are eventually going to get. Naturally. As for 'its specs say it has long-range weapons!' -- no shit, we've been talking about Iok sniping things, of course it has long-range weapons. His suit having long-range weapons and being customised as a long-range unit isn't news, but unless you have a source that says 'long-range Reginlazes enhance their pilots' accuracy' it doesn't mean anything. "If you took Iok out of a suit with a sniper rifle and stuck him in a suit with a normal rifle, his sniping would take a hit!" Well, that is why sniper rifles exist. Because they're better at sniping than normal rifles. On a similar note, if you took Iok out of a mobile suit and put him in a cardboard box, he'd be far less efficient at fighting in space. These aren't arguments for anything, they're just truisms. Like, yeah, if snipers aren't using sniper rifles, they tend not to be great snipers. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was famously less adept at hitting her enemies with paper airplanes than a sniper rifle.
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2016-12-26, 12:06 | Link #176 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Maybe, just maybe, Iok is an incompetent soldier/pilot who is a passable long-range shooter (calling him a sniper makes him sounds elite in skill which I dont think so), and can get some extremely lucky shots in some occasions? I mean, he couldn't hit Mika who was floating in a stright line when facing Sandoval. I mean, we certainly can take that as a sign of not-that-skilled-of-a-MS-pilot/sniper. And in Vidar's debut episode, his aiming was so bad that it's even out of the TV frame . And he didn't get that much skill-point for hitting Hashmal either coz it's such a big target that even a shooter of his caliber wouldn't miss.
Just my 2-cents.
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2016-12-26, 12:51 | Link #177 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
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I mean, Iok is absolutely a bad soldier, for the same reasons that Carta is a bad soldier. And he is definitely a worse pilot than most of the named characters in the series, most of whom are insanely skilled prodigies.
But that doesn't change the facts, and neither does any amount of fanfic-ery or wishful thinking. As far as him being called a sniper goes, he's shooting people from a long distance away using a sniper rifle, that is the literal definition of 'sniping.' Going "but I don't like him being called a sniper uwu" doesn't change the fact that he's literally sniping people, which is what snipers do. As far as Hashmal goes, no, it does count. I explained why it counted earlier.
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2016-12-26, 21:29 | Link #178 | |||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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I just think that calling Iok an actual sniper would be a disservice to actual snipers out there both IRL & fictional. Coz a sniper, by common military definition, is: Quote:
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Maybe because I have a close relative in the military and I know a thing or two about soldiers that I can’t in my good conscience call Iok an actual sniper. Maybe you can do it if you stick with the general description based on common dictionary. But fun fact: any soldier with a long/sniper rifle can do (or tried to do) sniping activity (like Iok), but certainly not all of them can be called snipers in the actual military-career sense. So, my reasoning is certainly not just "but I don't like him being called a sniper uwu" like you simply put it. There’s a technical reason behind it. So, until the show (directly or indirectly) states Iok as an actual sniper (like Lockon Stratos in Gundam 00, Yonem Kirks in Unicorn, the Zeon snipers in Thunderbolt, or the pilots of the GM Sniper I & II in 08th MS Team & Gundam 0080), I’m treating Iok as just a soldier who opt for long-range shooting/sniping and not much of an actual sniper. But that’s me. Others may consider & call Iok an actual sniper all they want.
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Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2016-12-26 at 21:44. |
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2016-12-27, 04:42 | Link #179 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Ill reply one more time to humor you and leave it at that, cuz in the grand scheme of things Iok is only in the show to progress some plot points through his mishaps, and serve as comedic relief of sorts, and his MS/skills are minor things tied to that At the end of the day, your argument and my speculation is pointless, because ALL the shots he made are in the Reginlaze, so its literally impossible to tell whether its the man or machine producing the results (or whichever one is the bigger factor in achieving said results) As someone who handles firearms myself, I would normally say the person is the biggest factor behind landing a shot, but all that stuff is thrown out the door when it comes to a MS. You dont have to deal with breathing and marksmanship fundamentals, and you are in a machine that you can precisely control with the help of aiming systems/computers, at that point the balance evens out more |
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