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tsunade666 · 2010-04-17, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubicjack

She once deflected a bullet from an electromagnetic sniper rifle. Don't know how the speed of that compares to a handgun, though.

A hand gun travels 400 m/s and sniper rifle probably a kilometer or something per second while the railgun travels times three of the speed of sound per second.

Well if you compare it to the final destination then it's the same. But aren't you enjoying it? even if you know that its utter failure?

The thing that interest me is will they show touma busting up accel here. How will they make a conclusion. And what will happen next/

Master Assassin · 2010-04-17, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubicjack

She once deflected a bullet from an electromagnetic sniper rifle. Don't know how the speed of that compares to a handgun, though.

Even if it's an ordinary sniper rifle the projectiles shot from it would be traveling much faster than a handgun's. So I suppose an electromagnetic sniper rifle could be faster...?

Miraluka · 2010-04-17, 22:30

Yup, thats an example of failure is the only alternative.

Marina2 · 2010-04-18, 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

A hand gun travels 400 m/s and sniper rifle probably a kilometer or something per second while the railgun travels times three of the speed of sound per second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Assassin

Even if it's an ordinary sniper rifle the projectiles shot from it would be traveling much faster than a handgun's. So I suppose an electromagnetic sniper rifle could be faster...?

Aren't Mikoto's Railgun isn't as fast as the real Railgun? I heard that it is slower than the sniper rifle's bullet.

surerman · 2010-04-18, 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

Aren't Mikoto's Railgun isn't as fast as the real Railgun? I heard that it is slower than the sniper rifle's bullet.

Even if it's slower, it's engulfed with electricity enough to fry almost anything in it's path...slow but deadly

Sixth · 2010-04-18, 07:27

I wonder...did the Railgun manga going to end after the Sisters arc which most likely turn out to be failure mission or there would be another arc for Misaka?

tsunade666 · 2010-04-18, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

Aren't Mikoto's Railgun isn't as fast as the real Railgun? I heard that it is slower than the sniper rifle's bullet.

No. I think its been said in the novel that mikoto's railgun travels 3x the speed of sound or something like that but I also hear its travels on mach something.......

I will check.

EDIT:

Confirmed

from the Prologue of volume 1 when mikoto is playing with touma using thunder bolts and railgun

Quote:

"Even coins like this can fly three times the speed of sound if a reasonable amount of power is provided, right? Then again, it melts after about 50 meters due to friction with the atmosphere."

Shadow5YA · 2010-04-18, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

No. I think its been said in the novel that mikoto's railgun travels 3x the speed of sound or something like that but I also hear its travels on mach something.......

"Mach something" is used to describe how fast an object is travelling compared to the speed of sound. Mach speed is the speed of sound. Mach 3 is three times the speed of sound.

tsunade666 · 2010-04-18, 14:56

oh so using the terms as "mach" is related to speed of sound. Learn something new. Then those military jetplanes that I heard are traveling already at speed of sound.

Sol Falling · 2010-04-18, 15:59

And to be specific, the speed of sound is 340 m/s...so if a sniper rifle is 1000 m/s (I don't think that's correct though), that's pretty exactly the same speed as Mikoto's railgun. Actually though, I don't think a normal sniper rifle should be that much faster than a handgun...the long nozzle is only to increase the accuracy, while a higher velocity would be achieved by having a higher force of propulsion, i.e. higher recoil. So if we assume a handgun shoots at 400 m/s, then for a bullet the same size to move at 1000 m/s a sniper rifle would have to have 2.5x the recoil--that seems like a bit too much in my opinion.

But yeah, I think some earlier analysis in some other threads already showed that the speed of Mikoto's railgun is actually not that much, and in fact if it was only the force from the coin, it could not have the destructive power that's shown in the series (for a mass the size of the coin, 3x the speed of sound is way too small). So I think we can assume that Mikoto's railgun is way more powerful than any old sniper bullet, and that that power in fact comes from the railgun being some kind of 'beam' with a lot of electrical energy as well.

tsunade666 · 2010-04-18, 16:09

but the sniper rifle in the series are military powered sniper rifle. And I think the coin itself isn't scary but the amount of electricity compressed on it when it's been fired. And its fitting to call it a laser beam not just a railgun.

stillmissing · 2010-04-18, 16:21

The world's most powerful .50 caliber sniper rifles do fire at around mach 3. They also use ammunition that's designed for it though, heh.

No seriously. This is just one of Kamichi's physics failures. The series has several of them, so don't worry about it too much. An arcade token has extremely low mass, and even accelerated to mach 3 (and mind you it's losing mass as it melts) it really probably wouldn't do more damage than a low caliber handgun.

However, living up to the title of "electromagnetic cannon" Kamachi has Mikoto's standard railgun do damage that far exceeds even the strongest high power rifle and is easily in line with an impossibly short ranged cannon.

Of course, we know that Mikoto limits it all on purpose. Her choice of ammunition is designed to limit her destructive power and her range. She limits the speed too, and can exceed mach 3 without any problems, but the coin would essentially disintegrate immediately.

From the special novel, we know she can railgun pretty much anything, as she coated a non magnetic object in a shell/layer of micromagnetic particles and then fired it. We also get an idea of her real range, as fans in Japan have calculated that based on the speed of the target she struck, it should have been anywhere from 80 to 100 kilometers away from her at the time. This puts her in line with the most long range experimental artillery of modern times.

As for Saiai, earlier I thought for sure that she would end up fighting Mikoto. Her power is a good advantage against Mikoto. Pure nitrogen is actually a good insulator. Actually, even though it's only mostly nitrogen, air itself is a decent insulator. People forget that because lightning cuts through air so "easily", but that's a testament to the power of lightning more than anything.

Still, insulators can be overcome by strong enough current. At full strength, I don't doubt for a second that Mikoto could electrocute Saiai through the armor, but Mikoto isn't anywhere near her actual strength at this point.

As for the railgun, I'd imagine Saiai can withstand it without permanent injury. It would probably blow her off her feet though. I could imagine it knocking her out if she gets hit the wrong way with it.

Still, I had placed Mugino as last boss for the arc from the moment she appeared, and that fight is now underway. I can imagine the author might want to have Saiai fight Mikoto just so Mikoto will have fought against all of ITEM, but it certainly would seem odd to fight her last. Maybe that's just me.

Miraluka · 2010-04-18, 21:24

Actually Saiai is on the other facility with Shinobu, and from the last chapter Mikoto has the plot power plus she noticed Frenda's explosives.

tsunade666 · 2010-04-18, 23:22

right! that's one of the irritating part for me. The plot control one. Instead of the index physics law. I can accept the fact about not willing to give up thing and those mortal wounds that almost killed someone but still their standing. The one I can't accept are the ones with no further explenation like on accel's part where he can just redirect it.... PERIOD! NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ASK! that's all. The plot are on their side. And not just some terrible bad luck.

ykf566 · 2010-04-19, 03:48

I usually don't like to think as if its plot and character which controls what happens, otherwise it gets really annoying if they pull crap out of there asses like this.

I prefer to think of it as a event which has already happened without us knowing and then telling it to us. Kinda like telling the heroic story of someone in WW2 which doesn't die, to a person who has no idea about WW2. We can't say he didn't die cause of plot, but rather were telling this story only cause he achieved something unbelievable before he died. But there is only so much crap one can accept before its ass pull and plot shield...kinda like Touma not before dead seriously.

Sixth · 2010-04-19, 05:02

The manga is extremely depressing. I hate the clones idea and concept. Even worst when Misaka can't avenge for those Sisters..She is powerless...in her own spin-off.

surerman · 2010-04-19, 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobita

The manga is extremely depressing. I hate the clones idea and concept. Even worst when Misaka can't avenge for those Sisters..She is powerless...in her own spin-off.

this spin off not to make Mikoto look more badass it's to explaining more about the event in manga in Mikoto perception.
Well, it's up to Author to decide, some manga have weak asses character suddenly harbor great power. Like what Samurai deeper Kyo do. Who know what will happen in Mikoto in the next chapter, may be she will receive some Brain boosted via magic then become as Great as Touma....(imagining Mikoto become evil mistress who surrounded the whole world with Thunder Storm like Jupiter Planet Atmosphere)

aldw · 2010-04-19, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by surerman

this spin off not to make Mikoto look more badass it's to explaining more about the event in manga in Mikoto perception.
Well, it's up to Author to decide, some manga have weak asses character suddenly harbor great power. Like what Samurai deeper Kyo do. Who know what will happen in Mikoto in the next chapter, may be she will receive some Brain boosted via magic then become as Great as Touma....(imagining Mikoto become evil mistress who surrounded the whole world with Thunder Storm like Jupiter Planet Atmosphere)

Yeah, its just as important for an author to know when not to overplay fan enthusiasm for a character for the good of the story as much as acknowledging it.

tsunade666 · 2010-04-19, 21:22

mikoto can't be boosted by magic because magic and esper abilities aren't compatible with each other. If you can use esper abilities then you can't be a magician but if you can't become an esper then you can become a magician.

surerman · 2010-04-20, 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

mikoto can't be boosted by magic because magic and esper abilities aren't compatible with each other. If you can use esper abilities then you can't be a magician but if you can't become an esper then you can become a magician.

that's why I said "May Be" silly

the author can use any method he like to boost biri-biri power. Just like what Maaka from Soul Eater do (via Black Blood from Ragnarok) or Majunia from Dragon Ball (merge with Earth God) or may be like Ikaros from Sora no Otoshimono (awakened by Anger)

hmm...Mikoto school have swimming class too..I wonder what will happen with her classmate if some one peek at her in the pool

Mikoto: KYAAAAh! Pervert!!!
Mikoto Class mate:!!!!EVERYONE!!!!!!! GET OUT FROM THE POOL!!!
*BZZZZZZZZtttTTTT!!!!*

*check out Baka-tsuki translation site.....*
no one translate vol 5 yet?

2010-04-19, 03:48	Link #795
ykf566 Member Join Date: Nov 2009	I usually don't like to think as if its plot and character which controls what happens, otherwise it gets really annoying if they pull crap out of there asses like this. I prefer to think of it as a event which has already happened without us knowing and then telling it to us. Kinda like telling the heroic story of someone in WW2 which doesn't die, to a person who has no idea about WW2. We can't say he didn't die cause of plot, but rather were telling this story only cause he achieved something unbelievable before he died. But there is only so much crap one can accept before its ass pull and plot shield...kinda like Touma not before dead seriously. Last edited by ykf566; 2010-04-19 at 03:49. Reason: typo

2010-04-17, 22:30	Link #783
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Yup, thats an example of failure is the only alternative.

2010-04-18, 07:27	Link #786
Sixth Hu Tao Join Date: Oct 2006	I wonder...did the Railgun manga going to end after the Sisters arc which most likely turn out to be failure mission or there would be another arc for Misaka?

2010-04-18, 14:56	Link #789
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	oh so using the terms as "mach" is related to speed of sound. Learn something new. Then those military jetplanes that I heard are traveling already at speed of sound.

2010-04-18, 15:59	Link #790
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	And to be specific, the speed of sound is 340 m/s...so if a sniper rifle is 1000 m/s (I don't think that's correct though), that's pretty exactly the same speed as Mikoto's railgun. Actually though, I don't think a normal sniper rifle should be that much faster than a handgun...the long nozzle is only to increase the accuracy, while a higher velocity would be achieved by having a higher force of propulsion, i.e. higher recoil. So if we assume a handgun shoots at 400 m/s, then for a bullet the same size to move at 1000 m/s a sniper rifle would have to have 2.5x the recoil--that seems like a bit too much in my opinion. But yeah, I think some earlier analysis in some other threads already showed that the speed of Mikoto's railgun is actually not that much, and in fact if it was only the force from the coin, it could not have the destructive power that's shown in the series (for a mass the size of the coin, 3x the speed of sound is way too small). So I think we can assume that Mikoto's railgun is way more powerful than any old sniper bullet, and that that power in fact comes from the railgun being some kind of 'beam' with a lot of electrical energy as well.

2010-04-18, 16:09	Link #791
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	but the sniper rifle in the series are military powered sniper rifle. And I think the coin itself isn't scary but the amount of electricity compressed on it when it's been fired. And its fitting to call it a laser beam not just a railgun.

2010-04-18, 16:21	Link #792
stillmissing Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	The world's most powerful .50 caliber sniper rifles do fire at around mach 3. They also use ammunition that's designed for it though, heh. No seriously. This is just one of Kamichi's physics failures. The series has several of them, so don't worry about it too much. An arcade token has extremely low mass, and even accelerated to mach 3 (and mind you it's losing mass as it melts) it really probably wouldn't do more damage than a low caliber handgun. However, living up to the title of "electromagnetic cannon" Kamachi has Mikoto's standard railgun do damage that far exceeds even the strongest high power rifle and is easily in line with an impossibly short ranged cannon. Of course, we know that Mikoto limits it all on purpose. Her choice of ammunition is designed to limit her destructive power and her range. She limits the speed too, and can exceed mach 3 without any problems, but the coin would essentially disintegrate immediately. From the special novel, we know she can railgun pretty much anything, as she coated a non magnetic object in a shell/layer of micromagnetic particles and then fired it. We also get an idea of her real range, as fans in Japan have calculated that based on the speed of the target she struck, it should have been anywhere from 80 to 100 kilometers away from her at the time. This puts her in line with the most long range experimental artillery of modern times. As for Saiai, earlier I thought for sure that she would end up fighting Mikoto. Her power is a good advantage against Mikoto. Pure nitrogen is actually a good insulator. Actually, even though it's only mostly nitrogen, air itself is a decent insulator. People forget that because lightning cuts through air so "easily", but that's a testament to the power of lightning more than anything. Still, insulators can be overcome by strong enough current. At full strength, I don't doubt for a second that Mikoto could electrocute Saiai through the armor, but Mikoto isn't anywhere near her actual strength at this point. As for the railgun, I'd imagine Saiai can withstand it without permanent injury. It would probably blow her off her feet though. I could imagine it knocking her out if she gets hit the wrong way with it. Still, I had placed Mugino as last boss for the arc from the moment she appeared, and that fight is now underway. I can imagine the author might want to have Saiai fight Mikoto just so Mikoto will have fought against all of ITEM, but it certainly would seem odd to fight her last. Maybe that's just me.

2010-04-18, 21:24	Link #793
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Actually Saiai is on the other facility with Shinobu, and from the last chapter Mikoto has the plot power plus she noticed Frenda's explosives.

2010-04-18, 23:22	Link #794
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	right! that's one of the irritating part for me. The plot control one. Instead of the index physics law. I can accept the fact about not willing to give up thing and those mortal wounds that almost killed someone but still their standing. The one I can't accept are the ones with no further explenation like on accel's part where he can just redirect it.... PERIOD! NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ASK! that's all. The plot are on their side. And not just some terrible bad luck.

2010-04-19, 05:02	Link #796
Sixth Hu Tao Join Date: Oct 2006	The manga is extremely depressing. I hate the clones idea and concept. Even worst when Misaka can't avenge for those Sisters..She is powerless...in her own spin-off.

2010-04-19, 21:22	Link #799
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	mikoto can't be boosted by magic because magic and esper abilities aren't compatible with each other. If you can use esper abilities then you can't be a magician but if you can't become an esper then you can become a magician.