One Piece - Chapter 597 (manga)

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

that reputation must come from strength surely

and I think it was mentioned that they are, in fact, 7 of some of the strongest pirates in the world (well, barring the Yonkou and their top commanders)


WB's allies from the NW are surely among the top NW non-Yonkou pirates and they didn't look like any of them were Shichibukai level (except Oars, but that was a special case)

you need a both

a reputation and the strength to backup that reputation.

BB wasn't made a shichibukai until he capture Ace, being strong was enough to get him consider but he need a rep as well.

[seiji_kun]

If beating 2 shichibukai's and beating the strongest C.P. agent ever doesn't make you worthy of the shichibukai title then I wonder what the shichibukai actually did to net their positions. Especially since Croc and Hancock already got chosen when there bounties were around a mere 80 mil. So I definitely agree with James when he said he was already at the bottom lvl of the shichibukai.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

But I agree with you that reputation does come from strength as well.

At least if your name ain't Buggy, can't wait to see the next shichibukai calling to see if he did get an invitation or not. Cause of course Oda has to tease us with that letter and leave it unanswered till after this time-skip, just like I'm still wondering what's the secret that Iva knows of Croc. (is that even ever going to be answered, hopefully he'll at least answer it in a SBS ever)

[hero147]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

yeah

I don't think Luffy is going to become strong enough to take on the four emperors right after the time skip. If the Four Emperors where much more powerful than the Admirals than the Pirates would have crushed the marines a long time ago.

Together, the Yonkou would destroy the marines. If 4 emperors arrived that day together and united instead of just Whitebeard and his allies, Marineford would've sunk into the sea along with the bodies of all the Vice Admirals, Admirals, and Fleet Admiral. The only reason the marines are still here is the fact that the Yonkou aren't on good terms with one another. They're largely independent. It's the reason why it was such a big deal to Sengoku when he found out that Shanks had arranged a personal meeting with Whitebeard.

[Kallen4life]

Originally Posted by hero147

Together, the Yonkou would destroy the marines. If 4 emperors arrived that day together and united instead of just Whitebeard and his allies, Marineford would've sunk into the sea along with the bodies of all the Vice Admirals, Admirals, and Fleet Admiral. The only reason the marines are still here is the fact that the Yonkou aren't on good terms with one another. They're largely independent. It's the reason why it was such a big deal to Sengoku when he found out that Shanks had arranged a personal meeting with Whitebeard.

true

however, WB isn't just a Yonkou, he's also the strongest man in the world .. he clearly owned Akainu .. on the other hand, Akainu recovered pretty fast and did get blows in too (the first was from WB's distraction due to illness, but the Meigou was a clean one - and immediately after a surprise quake)

I think Yonkou = admiral more or less .. maybe a bit higher


and Roger/WB were the very top .. Garp I'm not sure .. it was only explicitly stated that Roger and WB were equals (Garp cornering Roger doesn't necessarily mean Garp = Roger in power) .. at least he was in the same league though and he's clearly admiral+ level (was more then 25 years ago .. but he also said he lost some strength with age)

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

If beating 2 shichibukai's and beating the strongest C.P. agent ever doesn't make you worthy of the shichibukai title then I wonder what the shichibukai actually did to net their positions. Especially since Croc and Hancock already got chosen when there bounties were around a mere 80 mil. So I definitely agree with James when he said he was already at the bottom lvl of the shichibukai.

that just got him the rep but if it wasn't for plot device luffy can't beat either croc or moria. i will give him credit for beating cp9 but cp9 is still below the shichibukai and admirals, at best on par with the VA.

[Kallen4life]

Lucci was easily Warlord level, since we've established there's a lot of difference between them

he may not be Mihawk or Hancock or Kuma (still don't know about Dofla), but he can be grouped with Croc & Moria and possibly even Jimbei (not sure .. our favorite fishman isn't his best on land) .. Croc has high offense, but not-so-hot physical skills (he was on par with Alabasta level non-gear luffy) and the water weakness .. Moria isn't too hot (so far) in 1v1 without a lot of shadows/zombies prepared beforehand


he's the only one though.. I wouldn't let Kaku or Jyabura in theer

[Lukrin]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

true

however, WB isn't just a Yonkou, he's also the strongest man in the world .. he clearly owned Akainu .. on the other hand, Akainu recovered pretty fast and did get blows in too (the first was from WB's distraction due to illness, but the Meigou was a clean one - and immediately after a surprise quake)

I think Yonkou = admiral more or less .. maybe a bit higher


and Roger/WB were the very top .. Garp I'm not sure .. it was only explicitly stated that Roger and WB were equals (Garp cornering Roger doesn't necessarily mean Garp = Roger in power) .. at least he was in the same league though and he's clearly admiral+ level (was more then 25 years ago .. but he also said he lost some strength with age)

Im not sure but i think if Garp Participated in the war lot of things would have changed
I can safely say that Garp is on par with WB and Shanks

I Reckon that it was said in the Anime that garp was the only marine that
Matched Roger or smthn

im not So sure about sengoku but i think a Fleet Admiral isn't necessarily strong
I think Fleet Admiral position is more dependant on having Responsibility.

[Kallen4life]

yeah .. although Sengoku should be close to Garp (or equal) in strength

they were best buds forever, took on Shiki equally & Sengoku could pin and hold down an enraged Garp

nevermind the fact that before FA you have to be admiral and that requires becoming Marines top fighting force

[morbosfist]

Lucci is a pure physical fighter, and was dangerous to Luffy because of this. I wouldn't class him in the same ranks as the Warlords. They're a step above him.

[Kallen4life]

Garp/Jinbei/Sengoku/Wb/Rayleigh are physical fighters

Lucci also has Rankyaku - something of a ranged attack


Kuma himself was surprised Lucci was taken down at all

he was Warlord material I think .. maybe they want diversity in abilities there (Jinbei happens to excel in the water as opposed to 90%+ of OP fighters)

[cheese4u]

Sorry, a bit off topic here, but how long till one piece comes back. (I lost count)

[james0246]

Originally Posted by cheese4u

Sorry, a bit off topic here, but how long till one piece comes back. (I lost count)

How is that off-topic .

Well, the last chapter was released (in WSJ) on August 30, and 4 weeks from August 30 is September 27. And since we get the spoiler 5 days in advance, that means the next spoilers should arrive September 22, or sometime next Wenesday . So, presumably there is a just 9 days to go before we can find out what's up in the world of One Piece ...

[seiji_kun]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

that just got him the rep but if it wasn't for plot device luffy can't beat either croc or moria. i will give him credit for beating cp9 but cp9 is still below the shichibukai and admirals, at best on par with the VA.

I'll give you Croc but I won't give you Moria. If you want to call him self destructing due to swallowing to much shadows plot device then be my guest but I humbly disagree. And Oars was imo not Moria's own strength since he needs Hogback for it. But like James said, lets not turn this in a vs thread.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

I'll give you Croc but I won't give you Moria. If you want to call him self destructing due to swallowing to much shadows plot device then be my guest but I humbly disagree. And Oars was imo not Moria's own strength since he needs Hogback for it. But like James said, lets not turn this in a vs thread.

it wasn't luffy's strength either since they stuff him full of shadows.

[marvelB]

LOL, I just checked out the latest Toriko chapter and it looks like I spoke too soon about Toriko training for the Gourmet World..... he pretty much just decided to go there right away at his current level. Heh, it'll sure be amusing to see him get destroyed by the monsters there.....



Anyway, I found out something very interesting at AP concerning the Sabaody arc. According to an interview with Oda's assistants, it turns out that while the Straw-Hat separation was planned out well in advance, the inclusion of the Supernova rookies was more or less a last-minute decision on Oda's part. Furthermore, it only took him three hours to design all of those characters. I've gotta say.... even if turns out he had the basic idea of those characters floating around in his head long before then, the fact that he managed to include them in the story in such a short amount of time is insane. I'd love to hear more stories about how Oda plans out his storylines......

[james0246]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Anyway, I found out something very interesting at AP concerning the Sabaody arc. According to an interview with Oda's assistants, it turns out that while the Straw-Hat separation was planned out well in advance, the inclusion of the Supernova rookies was more or less a last-minute decision on Oda's part. Furthermore, it only took him three hours to design all of those characters. I've gotta say.... even if turns out he had the basic idea of those characters floating around in his head long before then, the fact that he managed to include them in the story in such a short amount of time is insane. I'd love to hear more stories about how Oda plans out his storylines......

That is amazing if true. While I am sure he took many more hours/days/weeks planning out their stories, the fact that he was able to throw 20 or so new characters out there in just a few hours is quite amazing.

[seiji_kun]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

it wasn't luffy's strength either since they stuff him full of shadows.

That's kind of my point, neither was their own true strength. Yet Luffy took a far huger penalty for it, severely exhausted bye the use of those shadows and another gear 3rd to finally take out Oars. And even with all that he was still able to beat Moria in the end when they were finally only relying on their own strength.

Originally Posted by james0246

That is amazing if true. While I am sure he took many more hours/days/weeks planning out their stories, the fact that he was able to throw 20 or so new characters out there in just a few hours is quite amazing.

But it's also discussed there if he didn't already had a few of them in his head to use after the time-skip which seems highly possible. Like for the replacement of some of the shichibukai? Kidd definitely comes in mind here. Though it does resulted in a few good questions, like how was he planning to have Luffy normally escape the war if it wasn't for Law.

[Gin]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

Though it does resulted in a few good questions, like how was he planning to have Luffy normally escape the war if it wasn't for Law.

Well since Luffy ended up back at Amazon Lily, maybe Boa was going to help him escape. Or Rayleigh could have swam up to Marineford and snatched him away.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

Though it does resulted in a few good questions, like how was he planning to have Luffy normally escape the war if it wasn't for Law.

Maybe Kuma's last shred of humanity would unearth itself and he'd paw-paw Luffy back to Amazon Lily a second time?

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

but I won't give you Moria. If you want to call him self destructing due to swallowing to much shadows plot device then be my guest but I humbly disagree. And Oars was imo not Moria's own strength since he needs Hogback for it.

The fact of the matter is that no one can conclusively say who is stronger between Luffy and Moria, because they didn't get to have a proper 1 on 1 fight. As for Moria's zombies, they are an extension of his power. Without the Kage Kage no mi, it's not possible to revive the dead (excluding Brooke's DF, that is). Therefore, using Oars should be treated as part of Moria's capabilities/strength.