(L) Simoun

[Kaoru Chujo]

Matrim's right that Furoe's feelings for Aaeru weren't that overt, and at first were just admiration of her flying. But in addition to Futaba-chan's points, how about the full-on kiss Furoe gave Aaeru when she was trying to teach her what love was?

The thing that struck me about Neviril and Aaeru in the latter part of the series was that they seemed somehow distant...

Spoiler for eps25-26:

...Certainly distant from the other Sibyllae -- as Neviril had been throughout the series, really -- and even a bit distant from each other: not touching even when Aaeru came into Neviril's room and they declared their love to each other. And even locked up in separate cells.

At first, I found this frustrating, and thought that, as much as I love their voices, Takahashi Rieko and Niino Michi were not properly "selling" their love. That may be true, too, but I have come to realize that the distance was intentional. They are beyond all the rest of us, like goddesses, already in another world.

They live in a sacred space not accessible to the rest of us. What did they do in Neviril's room between the time that they were looking out the window and the time Paraietta came to the door? We were not shown that part, which we can imagine might have been fairly steamy (unless chastity is required for remaining shoujo, and I think it isn't). In any case, from a certain point on, the two of them were already gone, and we were seeing them receding, through the other sibyllas' eyes.

Thank you so much to atosaki (and to warainagara) for the translation. Now I think I understand the Japanese, AS (Nishida Asakao) said she wrote it herself, in the style of the mangaka Hoshi Poemu 星ぽえ夢. Unwilling to leave well enough alone, I have made my own rather loose translation:

I might have chosen a place other than this,
But I accept my life here.

I could have remained where all my friends are,
But with the one I love, I abandoned everything and flew away to the other shore I had dreamed of since I was young.

To be a shoujo is not forever. A shounen has his freedom taken from him and goes off to fight.
You...and you...are another possibility. A choice I did not make.
I, living in the real world, and I, the shoujo in a dream,
We will never touch, and our eternal love will not come to fruition.
But that is no misfortune. It is such a sweet, nostalgic memory.

[wowo]

Aw, that's so sweet. I just really loved Floe, she/he is a character I'll never forget.

Btw, not sure if it was mentioned yet, but the red eye was taken out in the DVD version.
The director mentioned in that hobby japan (? I think) interview that the staff had half the planning time as usual per episode for an anime series, so I'm sure there are a lot of inconsistencies in the story in general. It sounded like they made the story up as they went along right up to the voice recording phase (he mentioned something about brainstorming during the recording session o_o). Like the whole Anglus thing. I have a feeling more than half the settings of Simoun are made by fleeting thoughts of the staff, so it's an anime that's hard to analyze to death. It's best if you just take what you get from it, and enjoy.

In a way it reminds me of GAINAX's Evangelion. People analyzed it to death since it looked like there was a ton of meaning, but the director himself said that there really is no meaning. :P


Oh, btw - people who loved Simoun are sure to love "Revolutionary Girl Utena". If you haven't seen it, you've got to take a look at what I think is the main influence on the Simoun world.

Cheers, Simoun fans!

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by wowo

...Btw, not sure if it was mentioned yet, but the red eye was taken out in the DVD version. The director mentioned in that hobby japan (? I think) interview that the staff had half the planning time as usual per episode for an anime series, so I'm sure there are a lot of inconsistencies in the story in general. It sounded like they made the story up as they went along right up to the voice recording phase (he mentioned something about brainstorming during the recording session o_o). Like the whole Anglus thing. I have a feeling more than half the settings of Simoun are made by fleeting thoughts of the staff, so it's an anime that's hard to analyze to death. It's best if you just take what you get from it, and enjoy...In a way it reminds me of GAINAX's Evangelion. People analyzed it to death since it looked like there was a ton of meaning, but the director himself said that there really is no meaning...Oh, btw - people who loved Simoun are sure to love "Revolutionary Girl Utena". If you haven't seen it, you've got to take a look at what I think is the main influence on the Simoun world....

Lol, that's exactly how it seemed sometimes: making it up as they went along. But that doesn't mean it had no meaning. Just that the details might end up being contradictory. The meaning was definitely there, whether the director realized it or not.

This is a common thing with song lyrics and poems: the writer doesn't realize what he/she has put into them. I'm definitely going to continue analyzing Simoun, just not expecting everything to fit together literally. But we already knew it didn't all exactly fit, didn't we?

And I'll second the recommendation of Revolutionary Girl Utena. Mysterious, remarkable, thrilling. I personally liked the TV series better than the film.

[FatPianoBoy]

Ah, so that's why the plot is so... vague.
I've found that stories usually flow much better and more naturally when you make it up as you go. That's how I always write my stories. I tend to keep notes and such handy to avoid contradictions and plot holes, though. Although, the lack of planning time probably made everything quite hectic and kept them from fixing any mistakes.
Still, it's amazing that they came up with such an unforgettable show in such a short amount of time when some series have plenty of time to plan and still suck. Major props to the creative team behind Simoun.

[fignae]

Spoiler for episodes 25 and 26, from oneplusme's post, tangenting onwards:

Originally Posted by oneplusme

So when I finally saw the ending, my initial reaction was disappointment - it did none of those things. Having considered it, however, I'm finding I love this ending more and more as time passes.

That's exactly it! I felt like I fell off a cliff for a while, and then, to my surprise, I never hit the bottom, but instead wafted up to heights I'm still trying to discover. I've been obsessing over what it means for the past three days.

Throughout the series, with the exception of the very start of the story, everything we've seen has been from the perspective of the central characters. We know what they know; we see what they see; we only hear about the things they hear about.

I have, similarly, been considering point of view... but reached the opposite conclusion, that the series tries for omniscience, with a camera that's outside of everyone. There are scenes that the sibyllae themselves would not see, such as those with Wauf.

Instead of having a few main characters, the focus shifts between the different members of Chor Tempest and their captains. It is, however, tempting to see Neviril and Aaeru as the main protagonists (from this fangirl's POV...), which would make it unconventional and disorienting to have them completely disappear from the narrative in the final episode, to view it at a literal level.

Aaeru even says "I want to touch you", but she doesn't.

OMG, she does! Haha.

Yes, I agree their relationship is beyond sex, but I think there's no need to start upholding a 'their love is so pure' view of the situation, either. (Sorry if I'm misinterpreting you, Nei. I may be overreacting.) Fact is, they aren't parting from each other, and their goodbye to their friends applies equally to the audience.

In my half-baked theory, I'm also saying that the director isn't conveying NevAer's journey because it's ultimately a move of transcendence, which is unspeakable, like what Dominura saw. It could apply to their love as well. (Yeah right.) Oh, eek, I missed the last page of this thread. I think I'm agreeing with Kaoru Chujo here. And, right, Nishida Asako is a Furoe/Aaeru shipper.

I'll have to disagree with Wowo about Evangelion being meaningless. Who cares what the creator says, y'know?

[jtrog]

Ok the Eternal Madiens -
IE: ep 26 was long, the now male / female members grew familys, built up farms / businesses. It had various times that didn't fit timeline and at the end it showed them performing the manuver. Thats like what a year and a half after ep 25? Or is it just as Eternal Madiens those 2 only lived 5 to 15 minutes where every one elses time passed as several years?

I've been enjoying very much new ep 1 2 and 3. Have a question, where there any accidents you think of any one falling out of the tube the Maaju practice is done in?

I don't get a lot of things that are 'hidden', have to ask like the weird time line thing.
Now I wouldn't mind having a floeF avatar in forum...

yah, might have rewatched 26 9 times now /shrugh, the character interaction between them as 'adults' is cute as well.

[oneplusme]

Originally Posted by jtrog

I've been enjoying very much new ep 1 2 and 3. Have a question, where there any accidents you think of any one falling out of the tube the Maaju practice is done in?

Not that we're made aware of. It's clearly a possibility, though (the pool is open at the bottom), and Mamiina tried to ensure Aaeru had just such an accident back in episode 7.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by jtrog

Ok the Eternal Maidens

Spoiler for ep26:

- IE: ep 26 was long, the now male / female members grew familys, built up farms / businesses. It had various times that didn't fit timeline and at the end it showed them performing the manuver. Thats like what a year and a half after ep 25? Or is it just as Eternal Madiens those 2 only lived 5 to 15 minutes where every one elses time passed as several years?....

I think we have to forget the flow of time in ep26. I think it jumps all over the place.

Spoiler for ep26:

We see DomiRimo in ancient times. We see NeviAer at the present and in eternity (appearing and disappearing). We see the snapshots of the others' lives a few years (I think) after NeviAer left. I think none of these are necessarily at the same time, or in sequence.

This is intentional, I think, to help loosen our sense of sequential time so as to feel NeviAer's eternal existence (maybe it won't last forever, but at least it's somehow beyond time). Morinas caught a glimpse of NeviAer's simoun appearing and then disappearing in a cloudless sky. Then we see back to them among the clouds, as they began their voyage a few years before. They appear to Limone in the distant past. Freed from time, and never quite touching the ordinary world. I kept expecting/hoping for some real contact with their old friends, but it never came. They are beyond time.

The idea of years seeming like minutes to them is attractive, but I don't think that's what's going on. I think it's just that we are seeing scattered moments.

By the way, I watched Simoun-Fans new version of ep3 last night, and found it so moving, now that I have seen the end of the story.

Spoiler for ep26:

Aaeru is captivated by the bustling activity of the simouns flying out and back, and the vast luxurious observation area of the Arcus Prima. It's so touching to now have the image of the ruined ballroom from ep26 in my mind, and to know that all the Prima's chors are no more.

[IchiKyo]

Guys? Did you see the official site?
the Staff let a message like :

Simoun is not Finish!

are they talking about PS2 Game, Secret Project or ?

[warainagara]

Guys? Did you see the official site?
the Staff let a message like :

Simoun is not Finish!

are they talking about PS2 Game, Secret Project or ?

The site says they will start a talk series in the official website.
It is for reviews and side stories from the staff's view.
Oh, are they gonna reveal something hidden?
Also, a new poll for character popularity will be open in the staff blog soon.
It's good Bandai Visual seems to have an intention to unfold media mix and propaganda for Simoun in spite of its DVD sales.
At least, our thirst will be slaked for a while with Drama CD, manga, game and novel while I don't know if I can get them.

The novel: Anyone know if this is this a pure adaptation of the anime, or is the story retold in a different way?

I haven't read it, but heard that its story is the same as the anime's except for slightly sensual scenes of DomiLimo and the sisters.
The 1st volume covered ep 1~9 with additional details.

Spoiler for the journey:

The Simoun shown to the grown-up Chor Tempest, I think, is their memory of the illusionarily short period as maidens rather than the hint for Aaeru and Neviril's journey.
Also, they are not only the protagonists, but also the symbol for the grown-ups' yearning for the evanescent childhood.
It's abruptly put to an end as the tango song in the dance scene stopped in the middle.

Tempus Spatium is, after all, no more than time and space in my opinion.
One should revolt against time and space if he or she wants to escape from the social rules.

Now we have some answers for our questions, it seems.
Limone and Dominura are the initiatior of the word, "Aaeru" and wowo's info cleared one of my questions.

[warainagara]

Originally Posted by Matrim

[spoiler] Well, all these feelings never struck me as particularly romantic. IIRC, at first Floe was mainly impressed by Aaeru's flying abilities, not being really in love with her or something. If there was anything romantic between them, Floe would probably have told Aaeru at least five times a day how much she loved her. Anyway, she denied having such feelings when Vyura asked her. spoiler]

Spoiler:

Of course, the feeling is different from one of Aaeru-Nevi or Wapo-Mori.
I even suspect Floe never loved anyone in an ordinary sense.
But there are 100 kinds of love for 100 people, I believe.
(Apparent allusion to a line from Marimite )
Her feeling was something more than normal friendship, with some mix with admiration rather than adult romance.

Spoiler for Dominura and Onashia:

I had to say this before, but somehow missed the timing. 0.0
Dominura is distinguished from Onashia in that
-Onashia said she had never gone to the different world (Dominura went)
-and that she had never embraced others (Dominura apparently did to Limone)

Although inexonerable reality seems to lie in the terminus,
the ending for each pair was beautified with no offensive obviousness.
That's natural.
The nostalgia for the lost pristine condition is humanistic and common to all,
and the efforts to consciously confront the reality or to resist its absurdity is the way our life goes,
so it is beautiful in itself, which I believe touches the main theme of Simoun.

[sei]

Some pics I found in 2chan

Spoiler:

I hope someone could make a wallpaper out of this.It'll be perfect!

[Simon]

Originally Posted by warainagara

It's good Bandai Visual seems to have an intention to unfold media mix and propaganda for Simoun in spite of its DVD sales.

DVD 2 has been out for a week now - any word on sales? 145san on 2ch is saying 1000-2000, but I don't know which volume/dates that covers.

Spoiler for ep25-26:

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

What did they do in Neviril's room between the time that they were looking out the window and the time Paraietta came to the door? We were not shown that part, which we can imagine might have been fairly steamy

I agree with you and fignae that the question of "pure love" vs "base sex" doesn't even arise: I don't believe the two are in opposition in the world of Simoun. I also think it's pretty clear that Aaeru and Neviril want each other in more ways than one...

But I'm not so sure about the timing of what you're suggesting. I love the body language in this scene immediately after the big confession: the way Aaeru breaks eye contact with Neviril and almost pushes past her. I really think this is one of the key moments in the story, as Aaeru looks to the sky and makes her peace with Amuria (whom she's never met). So you could say that after that, Neviril is ready to stop being "a good girl":

"Amuria... She was strong, wasn't she?"
"Yes. She was a strong person."
"..."
"..."
"So, wanna get naked?"
"Yes, Aaeru. Let's do that."

(Completing this dialogue is left as an exercise for the reader.)

Yet I'm in two minds as to whether they'd rush things. On one hand they face an uncertain future, so stealing what might be their only moment of the present makes a certain sense. Yet in other ways, I can imagine them just sitting quietly, not feeling the need to say or do anything except be together (for the time being - celebrating their arrival in the different world is another matter).

Oh well, I'm sure the fanfic authors will explore all the possibilities

(On a related note, I also like the bit where Paraietta knocks on the door and Aaeru for once shows more subtlety than a brick through a window by offering to go on ahead - I guess love really does transform people.)

Watching 25 and (especially) 26 again I am thinking this is perhaps the best ending I have ever seen. I was squeeing about ep26 on another forum and someone remarked "you sound like someone who's done everything they want to in life and can die happy" - I don't plan on dying any time soon, but yeah, to borrow a line from Kaoru-san I can honestly say "my heart is full".

@sei: thanks for the images! And I like your sig, too.

[Kaoru Chujo]

In the often interesting blog on her website, Morinaga Rika (Mamiina) talks about the wrap-up party for Simoun. She posted the item early Friday morning. Here's a rough translation:

Originally Posted by Morinaga Rika (Mamiina)

We’ve had Simoun’s wrap-up party. It was in a Hawaiian restaurant, complete with hula dancers in grass skirts. People were in high spirits.

Nishida Asako, the character designer, was there. She seemed a very interesting person, and easy to get along with. I’d love to talk with her more. [Morinaga-san uses “boku” for “I” throughout this piece.]

As the party started, the director had a tooootally heartbroken look on his face. I caught sight of him with that look again and again through the evening. “Please don’t look so sad,” I said to him. But a work must be such a beloved thing to a director, so I thought it must have been quite painful. Simoun had to have been made by an adult who had in him both the heart of a young man and the heart of a girl. It's really a work that shows the "hopes" you have when you are a child.

From all over the room you would hear “Para-sama would…," and “Aaeru’s…” -- people remembering the anime.

Ah! I’ve got a secret from the production. It was me who decided which music to use during Mamiina’s death scene (lol). The sound director, Tsujitani-sensei, couldn’t decide among three pieces. “Morinaga, as Mamiina, which would you choose?" he asked during the preparation. Something like that will never happen again…. So I chose the waltz.

The bright waltz playing as Mamiina dies is so good. She lived with pride and died sublimely. I thought it was not a time for something sad. Thank you, Tsujitani-sensei, for letting me choose. When I heard it on air, I couldn’t help just crying!

It’s a really good work. If you missed it, please be sure to see the DVD....

Later in the same blog item she mentions that she stopped at the salon after work the day she was writing (Thursday) and had her bright red hair toned down (?) to orange. Here's a photo of her in a previous incarnation.

[Yui from Okinawa]

Now I 'll send All Sibyllae, now adult woman and the "Female to Male guys" who was a girl and sibylla....off to the future by the...


Ri Mājon of the Calm Morning Sea (朝凪, Asanagi)

An ancient Ri Mājon that is used by a choir to send off comrades.
Plumbum male commander knew the meanings because of Dominūra and Limone taught their Ancestors.

Like other diplomatic Ri Mājons, this has no known effect other than the flight pattern.

Probabely my fan-page URL's last renewal http://www.geocities.jp/emiri_0623/simoun02-e1.htmas First season "Simoun"

[Simon]

@Yui: どうもありがとう

[Mephisto2k]

I loved vague and simi-open endings like Simoun has ended. They are allways so deep and nostalgic. Im totally satisfied with this show.

[Matrim]

Spoiler for Aaeru and Floe's relationship:

Her feeling was something more than normal friendship, with some mix with admiration rather than adult romance.

Can't we just say she was Aaeru's devoted fangirl (and later a fanboy)?

Oh well, I'm sure the fanfic authors will explore all the possibilities

Let's hope they will indeed, barring the most twisted and weird of possibilities, if possible.

[Yui from Okinawa]

http://dempa.kitaa.net/simoun/wiki/?FrontPage


Wiki style encyclopedia page "Simoun Wiki" advanced renewal!!

Dominura,Limone,Anubituf,Gragief and ,more Plumbum ancient simoun sibylla girl at ep 26 "Hanna"(Sajitta) "Aila"(Auriga) more guest characters...

[oneplusme]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Let's hope they will indeed, barring the most twisted and weird of possibilities, if possible.

Darn. Guess I'd better scrap that Wauf/Halconf fic then...