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Old 2014-05-07, 00:15   Link #1561
elior
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my guess is that they going to release the trailer at the end of this month
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Old 2014-05-07, 00:50   Link #1562
VampirePaladin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Not just the Shaft, remember Mai-Hime? It had a full trailer released for it, but the character designs story, and what not, ended up being very different from the final product. Or most Precure series, another franchise animated by Toei, who frequently has character designs that look very different when they are animated.

But as it stands the complaints are overblown, and many of them boil down to people being upset that the designs for this adaptation, don't resemble the first designs for the 90s anime, even though the 90s designs were a major deviation from the Naoko's designs anyway, and were altered with each season and the final designs contains the very same long skinny legs that they love to complain about. They're trying to justify their complaints, but considering how there isn't even a background to see the designs against for reference as to whether or not the designs work or not, or even more than one shot of the characters, so don't even have more than one shot to compare them to, to see whether or not its just due to the perspective of the poses.
What about those of us who aren't complaining about the style but are complaining about the legs being broken and twisted? The style is always a matter of taste, but when three of the five main characters have legs twisted unnaturally in their character designs I begin to get a little concerned. By broken I am not talking about the length, but about how they are twisted in unnatural ways.
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Old 2014-05-07, 01:04   Link #1563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Right, and you also have the manga which shows both long and thin. I'm not playing dumb here, I know what you guys are complaining about.
Then there's nothing baffling about what we're complaining about. If I think that a character design is terrible, then knowing what influenced it doesn't change the simple fact that I think the character design is terrible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
But as it stands the complaints are overblown, and many of them boil down to people being upset that the designs for this adaptation, don't resemble the first designs for the 90s anime, even though the 90s designs were a major deviation from the Naoko's designs anyway, and were altered with each season and the final designs contains the very same long skinny legs that they love to complain about.
No, the final designs in the last Sailor Moon anime do not contain that. I have seen all the Sailor Moon anime seasons, and none of them have the main cast with legs with a length/thinness combination this extreme.


Quote:
They're trying to justify their complaints
Our complaints are justified. Or rather, they don't need to be justified. There is nothing wrong with commenting on the character designs, and giving our take on them.

And this discussion likely would have ended pages ago, if the 2014 design defenders like yourself could just say "Ok, I get it. I can understand somebody preferring more normal anatomy than this. But I'm fine with these designs. I like the style of these designs."

I'd have no problem with agreeing to disagree on that taste basis. But instead I feel like I'm being told that I don't even have a right to dislike these designs and make criticisms against them.
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Old 2014-05-07, 01:07   Link #1564
Faerie
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Edit ^this.

I'm sorry, but i have to agree with 3R and VampirPaladin. I think we've been quite clear that the main problem is how thin and broken the bodies-in particular the legs look- but I've also said many many times that it may, and hopefully will look better in motion.
No one has really complained about the designs "not looking like the 90s anime" as alleged...
Neither was there flat out denial that the designs were influenced by the manga at all- but that they took the influence of the manga to an unsightly extreme- one that wasn't present to this extreme in the manga, and definitely not in the retouched version.
Even in the images you posted, Solace, their necks and thighs are significantly thicker and thus there's no issue... It's the extreme to which they took it that's at issue, really.

Thing is, yes, Utena was very angular, but the legs were not ridiculously thin, no twisted at impossible angles. The same goes for Stars- although like I've also said before, it makes more sense for them to lean out during Stars in the first place, since everyone is a bit older and the plot significantly matured. The first few volumes though feature a rounder, younger and less adult looking Usagi...
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Old 2014-05-07, 02:01   Link #1565
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Are you guys being intentionally obtuse? I never said you were wrong for having an opinion. I simply stated I was baffled by the response. That's my opinion. I also stated that the designs had a lot of influence from mid to late 90's anime, and I responded to the person who asked what I meant by providing examples.

I'm not defending the designs against your opinions, that would be pointless. I'm just trying to offer my own take on the subject. Like or dislike what you want.

I'm done.
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Old 2014-05-07, 02:14   Link #1566
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just saw the designs, i like them alot! while it looks new it still has an old school feel about them, sure the fanservice will suck(if any) but i dont think sailor moon is that kind of anime anyway ^^
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Old 2014-05-07, 03:19   Link #1567
elior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullFaerie View Post
Edit ^this.

I'm sorry, but i have to agree with 3R and VampirPaladin. I think we've been quite clear that the main problem is how thin and broken the bodies-in particular the legs look- but I've also said many many times that it may, and hopefully will look better in motion.
No one has really complained about the designs "not looking like the 90s anime" as alleged...
Neither was there flat out denial that the designs were influenced by the manga at all- but that they took the influence of the manga to an unsightly extreme- one that wasn't present to this extreme in the manga, and definitely not in the retouched version.
Even in the images you posted, Solace, their necks and thighs are significantly thicker and thus there's no issue... It's the extreme to which they took it that's at issue, really.

Thing is, yes, Utena was very angular, but the legs were not ridiculously thin, no twisted at impossible angles. The same goes for Stars- although like I've also said before, it makes more sense for them to lean out during Stars in the first place, since everyone is a bit older and the plot significantly matured. The first few volumes though feature a rounder, younger and less adult looking Usagi...
if they will look like this in motion only then i will realy complain since there is still hope they will look much better in motion then the art
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Old 2014-05-07, 03:40   Link #1568
Faerie
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@Solace, sorry, I should have specified more who I was directing what against. I see how my response could be misleading.
I only intended to say to to you that the images you posted don't actually have the features at issue, most of the rest of my reply was directed towards Sheba, Miraluka and Wisteria whose responses seem to indicate an issue with divergent opinion (some of which are now deleted). You weren't actually meant to get mixed up in that, so I apologise, as I really wasn't clear. I blame me posting before I had some coffee... XD

But yeah... The only point really directed as you was meant to be this:

Quote:
Even in the images you posted, Solace, their necks and thighs are significantly thicker and thus there's no issue... It's the extreme to which they took it that's at issue, really.
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Old 2014-05-07, 03:46   Link #1569
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Bah, I'm not mad or anything. These kinds of topics probably get more heated than they should. It's all good!
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Old 2014-05-07, 09:05   Link #1570
maximilianjenus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I certainly will be paying attention to it. And I very much doubt I'll be the only person paying attention to it. What do you find so strange about people caring about character designs? Again, this is an audio-visual medium. If the story/characterization was all I care about, I'd be reading a book instead. Why even bother watching an anime show if you don't care about how it and its characters look?




Character designs are a significant part of the entire package.
They are not that important, discussion about them is very justified because it's the most current piece of info we have got in which there is some disagreement. we could be discussing the nico nico exclusive or the byweekly format or the staff, but some of those have already been discussed and for others there is a general concensus that make it pointless to discuss them.

talking about character design, with the current staff, this being a toei series and with the production problems already going on (being pushed back one year for example) I don't even know if the actual animation will follow the designs properly, for all we know it will be off-model-the-animation.
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Old 2014-05-07, 11:11   Link #1571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
They are not that important, discussion about them is very justified because it's the most current piece of info we have got in which there is some disagreement. we could be discussing the nico nico exclusive or the byweekly format or the staff, but some of those have already been discussed and for others there is a general concensus that make it pointless to discuss them.
Ok, I'll admit that you're right. I'm probably somewhat exaggerating their importance, but like you said, there's not much else worth talking about.
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Old 2014-05-10, 06:01   Link #1572
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Since no one has mentioned it, this week on "Big Bang" Raj referred to the "200-pound Sailor Moon girl" he and Howard had a threesome with... It's not everyday anime gets a mention on prime time American TV, but when it does it's usually BBT.
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Old 2014-05-10, 14:23   Link #1573
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Since no one has mentioned it, this week on "Big Bang" Raj referred to the "200-pound Sailor Moon girl" ...
... you mean like these? <--- You know you will regret it, but you really want to click on the link, don't you? Yeah, I know, I am evil incarnate, you are welcome
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Old 2014-05-10, 16:11   Link #1574
Faerie
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
... you mean like these? <--- You know you will regret it, but you really want to click on the link, don't you? Yeah, I know, I am evil incarnate, you are welcome
This is nothing compared to what you could get if you googled the relevant search terms. I am not evil and I would feel awful for singling out any individual for their bad choices, nor do I want to inflict suffering on any of you, so I am not linking anything (you know what to do if you really wanted to). But that is one disturbing thought, thanks muchly for sharing that, Guardian Enzo
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Old 2014-05-10, 22:17   Link #1575
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
... you mean like these? <--- You know you will regret it, but you really want to click on the link, don't you? Yeah, I know, I am evil incarnate, you are welcome
That was weak sauce, man. Try harder.
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Old 2014-05-11, 01:25   Link #1576
ArrowSmith
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To be honest what I'm seeing on Crunchyroll this cour is weak stuff. Spring 2013 was probably the PEAK and the last 4 cours in a row have been decreasing quality of new shows. I don't know if Japan is just in a funk or what.
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Old 2014-05-12, 04:54   Link #1577
minaku
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Firstly, I'd like to apologize in advance for my "Engrish" as I am not a native English speaker. It's my very first post here on animesuki.com ground, so please be nice and bear with me. I'd like to say I am not necessarily pleased with the new CDs (Character Designs) as I am a huge fan of the old Sailor Moon anime designs, especially Ikuko Itou's art direction from R and above. But as a new take and being just a concept it's not so bad either. Many people complain about the fact that the new art doesn't correspond to the updated Naoko-hime's cover art, but they are actually referring to the 2nd generation cover art in which she tried to make the girls look moe (at least in my opinion it was a failure). For the 3rd generation manga cover art she took a shift back to her previous style - stunning looking guardians, looking like maidens instead of Barbie doll 3rd grade lovers (again my opinion for the kind a cheap and rushed 2nd generation cover art). Don't get me wrong the latter is not as cheap and as rushed as the new anime designs, i just speculate about the reason why they are not as moe. So the new CDs are not the prettiest, especially the one showed at the event on nico nico this April, but they are not the worst. I recall the designs for the only PreCure season I've ever bothered watching - Heart Catch PreCure. The designs looked extremely cheap, but the season was visually the best out of the PreCure universe and the characters have a pretty and cute feel combined to them (again personal opinion). The PGSM Crystal anime will consist of 26 episodes (30 minutes each) and will be broadcast bi-weekly on Nico Nico. Well 26 is a great number for an adaptation of the Dark Kingdom arc. There will be plenty of time for character development and to polish the story as there are plenty of plot holes and lack of character development in the manga (for both protagonists and antagonists). The Bi-weekly schedule is not necessarily due to a half-sized stuff and low budget either. My speculations are - as Toei being greedy little bastards, and as their main asset in shujo demographics is PreCure ( which doesn't sell well, despite being a TV hit in Japan), they want to release dvd and blu ray discs of Sailor Moon as fast as possible. This schedule will help them release blu rays faster with fewer episodes on disc (like every month, 60 minutes of animations - 13 blu ray discs), instead of being obliged to release like 6 or 7 with 4 episodes each. For the VA issues - yes, I love Michie Tomizawa, Emi Shinohara and Rica Fukami (Aya Hisakawa is not one of my beloved VAs to begin with), but if Toei plans to eventually make more seasons, covering more manga arcs, they would use fresh voices as Michie is retired and couldn't sign a contract for 5 years for example. There are plenty of reasons except for a low budget choosing new cast, which in my opinion is pretty descent and Kotono Mitsuishi-sensei practically chose them (please believe in her). And please, people who are putting links with images from the old anime artwork please use official artwork instead of Marko Albieri's funny looking redraws - they are inferior to the stunning character designs provided by the key animators back in 90s. And if you hate the new designs, they will actually look even hideous compared with the official artwork instead of Italian fan art, so your mission to show the lack of originality and gracefulness of the new ones will be fulfilled.
On the positive note my biggest nightmare - the idol group Momorio Clover Z has done a serious improvement lately, releasing a pretty decent song (not great but at least audible) so let's hope they'll perform well in the new anime. They are actually the biggest issue I have for it. And if Toei doesn't do at least a half as good as the previous time with Sailor Moon, let's give them a well reserved Moon Revenge,
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Old 2014-05-12, 12:14   Link #1578
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by minaku View Post
Firstly, I'd like to apologize in advance for my "Engrish" as I am not a native English speaker. It's my very first post here on animesuki.com ground, so please be nice and bear with me. I'd like to say I am not necessarily pleased with the new CDs (Character Designs) as I am a huge fan of the old Sailor Moon anime designs, especially Ikuko Itou's art direction from R and above. But as a new take and being just a concept it's not so bad either. Many people complain about the fact that the new art doesn't correspond to the updated Naoko-hime's cover art, but they are actually referring to the 2nd generation cover art in which she tried to make the girls look moe (at least in my opinion it was a failure). For the 3rd generation manga cover art she took a shift back to her previous style - stunning looking guardians, looking like maidens instead of Barbie doll 3rd grade lovers (again my opinion for the kind a cheap and rushed 2nd generation cover art). Don't get me wrong the latter is not as cheap and as rushed as the new anime designs, i just speculate about the reason why they are not as moe. So the new CDs are not the prettiest, especially the one showed at the event on nico nico this April, but they are not the worst. I recall the designs for the only PreCure season I've ever bothered watching - Heart Catch PreCure. The designs looked extremely cheap, but the season was visually the best out of the PreCure universe and the characters have a pretty and cute feel combined to them (again personal opinion).
^Essentially, this, this is why the complaints are so pointless. A lot of times with Toei the character designs in the PM do not resemble the character designs in series when animated. That or it ends up looking excellent when animated, so its really putting the cart before the horse to get bent out of shape from a few character designs that we don't even know will be used once the series is animated. That and many times when Toei animates a product they PM tends to look awkward or off model (if they are used at all), but they animate very well.

For references sake This is Heartcatch Precure!
Spoiler for for size:


But when animated this is what it looked like
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Old 2014-05-13, 07:57   Link #1579
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Old 2014-05-13, 08:15   Link #1580
minaku
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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Spoiler:
I was extremely happy when I saw these yesterday, unfortunately it is a fan art by Marco Albiero (same guy who did the Italian dvd cover art). But I really hope that it's actually closer to the final product as the colors are closer to the released key image. After all, all we've got so far are character settings, which in some cases are not even in color and are somewhat rough sketches, which can explain the strange coloring of the released artwork so far. The key visual they showed before the character settings is more like it ( in most cases key visual means key frame) and this fan art has a proper coloring like that key visual. So there is hope for the actual design indeed.

Last edited by minaku; 2014-05-13 at 12:50.
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