AnimeSuki Forums

whitecloud · 2018-02-20, 03:55

my guess the real rin is somewhere on the upper level, most likely just below final stage and tamamo is just dropped to the first floor to look for hakuno in order for rin to be able to advance since there is no master other than rin and she not able to rise to the next level.

Dengar · 2018-02-20, 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow1296

okay so let me ask you, how do anime only viewers view dan with no prior knowledge on how he is supposed to act, how do they view him are they supposed to relate to him, care about him, regret the fact you are forced to kill him, no they just see him as a random psychopath, a random monster of the week villain

I wouldn't really call him a psychopath. He's just incredibly efficient. He knows the easiest way to win is to snipe the master. What's psychopathic about that?

Besides, anime only viewers should view him the way he is presented. Which is why he is presented that way. I do not understand why a new viewer is even supposed to care about him or relate to him at this point? Clearly he is not presented in a way to be sympathetic (at this point).

Let me state this just so I'm clear: I actually played the game, and I feel no sympathy towards him. Because the show has given me no reason to. Yet.

I don't really buy the whole "Rin is secretly Tamamo" schtick. That totally does not sound like Tamamo's MO. At least not as far as her 'husband' is involved. Besides, we've had no evidence that she's even in this show.

FlareKnight · 2018-02-21, 23:09

I'm just going to treat Rin as Rin until the show says otherwise. Considering the time that's been spent, it's not crazy that someone that smart and talented has come up with a variety of tricks and abilities to help survive and lay low.

Dan really has gone off the range. I think he's just desperate now. He probably played it very honorably at the beginning. But when he was made a floor master and couldn't move on....over time he just lost it. Fighting and killing over and over and over again. At some point he would lose any desire to be honorable and straight forward Rather just killing as efficiently as possible to try and advance would become an obsession.

An awkward thing with Archer being the one fighting the grail war in a more normal sense. Mostly keeping the focus on attacking Saber.

Dengar · 2018-02-22, 06:05

Well, to me it's one of two things, which mostly amount to the same thing.

Either these characters aren't the same characters we know.

Or these characters are the same characters we know, and have lived for over a millennium and are highly likely to be changed people. In which case... They're not exactly the same characters we know.

Twi · 2018-02-22, 13:46

It's uncanny more than anything. I played the game and respected Dan. What next? The murder clown being articulate and a vegetarian? The devout man being an Atheist?

shadow1296 · 2018-02-22, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twi

It's uncanny more than anything. I played the game and respected Dan. What next? The murder clown being articulate and a vegetarian? The devout man being an Atheist?

since we are going by the game's order next is alice and nursery rhyme, and that is what is scaring me to high heaven is what they did to them, because all depictions of them constantly rip your heart out because of what you had to do in extra and having to see them corrupted will be like ripping your heart out and stepping on it

Twi · 2018-02-22, 20:02

Actually, I was kind of with Nameless/Archer on his view point.

moridin84 · 2018-02-24, 07:52

Nero is a pretty interesting character. Nobility, decadence, arrogance, and self-absorption all bundled into one bishoujo package.

I could see her setting fire to Rome because it was ugly.

Umu. Soon everyone will enjoy living in my new beautiful Rome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow1296

okay so let me ask you, how do anime only viewers view dan with no prior knowledge on how he is supposed to act, how do they view him are they supposed to relate to him, care about him, regret the fact you are forced to kill him, no they just see him as a random psychopath, a random monster of the week villain

I don't see why he is a psychopath. Or any more of a psychopath than the Hakuno or Nero.

Monster of the week? Well sure. Like Shinji and probably the next floor bosses.

I'm not forced to kill him. He's going to be killed by Hakuno and Nero.

Dengar · 2018-02-26, 09:37

I still love the show. This fight with Archer was miles better than the one with Rider. And we still get to see some of the special Skills of both servants.

Too bad Rani won't be joining us in future arcs though.

There's also the revelation that masters who already lost do not receive the right to ascend. That would mean this had also been the case for Shinji.

belatkuro · 2018-02-26, 10:39

For Shinji, it's just that he didn't want to ascend at all because ascending means killing another person again. So he stayed on the 1st floor.

Spoiler:

So he stayed and made the city Cape in the 1st floor as a refuge for Masters who want to quit the HGW.
Source: his profile in the official website.

shadow1296 · 2018-02-26, 11:34

it was a good episode, i find it interesting that robin actually made a grave for dan already, as if to say he buried the real dan blackmore a long time ago, and it also looks like the servant he lost to in the original grail war was suzaku gozen, it is sad to see rani go, oh and hey rin where were you all this time

Kanon · 2018-02-26, 12:20

So the real Dan was already dead, this one was just a copy made by the Moon Cell. His change in personality can be explained by what Rani said about the Moon Cell being unable to understand and properly replicate human emotions, since it happened right after he was revived.

We saw Dead Face Hakuno in action this time. Interesting that he could activate this mode to save Rani, going against the wishes of the dead who wanted him to leave her behind and kill Dan.

Shame Rani is gone already, but we got Rin back.

Twi · 2018-02-26, 12:59

...I wanted Rani to live. I liked her.

But yeah, Archer had basically wanted to pay respects to the man he'd been when they first met. I did love seeing his Noble Phantasm at work in that past footage. It's a nasty, effective one.

Anh_Minh · 2018-02-27, 02:34

I don't get the final showdown. What was that cube thing? What role did Rani play?

Dengar · 2018-02-27, 06:28

Hm? "Real Dan"? Nobody ever said he was a copy. Have I been watching the wrong sub?

Quote:

Originally Posted by belatkuro

For Shinji, it's just that he didn't want to ascend at all because ascending means killing another person again. So he stayed on the 1st floor.

Spoiler:

So he stayed and made the city Cape in the 1st floor as a refuge for Masters who want to quit the HGW.
Source: his profile in the official website.

I've actually seen the episode. All I'm saying is that even if he wanted to ascend he couldn't because this episode establishes that masters who have already lost can't ascend.

Unless, again, I've been watching the wrong sub.

belatkuro · 2018-02-27, 08:27

Uh, he won against that guy with the astronaut Servant. He won so he can ascend but he didn't because he didn't want to kill another person on the 2nd floor.

Dengar · 2018-02-27, 09:10

...He was defeated in the previous war though.... Like Dan...

Kanon · 2018-02-27, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Hm? "Real Dan"? Nobody ever said he was a copy. Have I been watching the wrong sub?

It's strongly implied. We saw him die in the flashback the same way Masters die in Extra, his personality made a complete 180 right after his revival (no way he would change this much just because he lost, especially after he made such a heartfelt speech), and more importantly, Archer made a grave for him a very long time ago. And there's what Rani said which I already mentioned. This is the explanation that makes the most sense.

Twi · 2018-02-27, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't get the final showdown. What was that cube thing? What role did Rani play?

Remember Rani's clones? She can create them from the cubes, so she sent one that looked like Hakuno up to trigger the bombs and when they went off the cube was left behind. Hakuno then took up the cube and changed it into a gun, which Rani mentioned was possible at the graves last episode, and used it to snipe Dan. She basically carried him to that point and gave him a means of counterattacking once Dan was caught off-guard.

Anh_Minh · 2018-02-27, 13:45

Ah, right, thanks. So he was following the clone at a safe distance?

2018-02-20, 03:55	Link #101
whitecloud Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	my guess the real rin is somewhere on the upper level, most likely just below final stage and tamamo is just dropped to the first floor to look for hakuno in order for rin to be able to advance since there is no master other than rin and she not able to rise to the next level. __________________ Friends are nice.......

2018-02-21, 23:09	Link #103
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	I'm just going to treat Rin as Rin until the show says otherwise. Considering the time that's been spent, it's not crazy that someone that smart and talented has come up with a variety of tricks and abilities to help survive and lay low. Dan really has gone off the range. I think he's just desperate now. He probably played it very honorably at the beginning. But when he was made a floor master and couldn't move on....over time he just lost it. Fighting and killing over and over and over again. At some point he would lose any desire to be honorable and straight forward Rather just killing as efficiently as possible to try and advance would become an obsession. An awkward thing with Archer being the one fighting the grail war in a more normal sense. Mostly keeping the focus on attacking Saber. __________________ Anime-Evo

2018-02-22, 13:46	Link #105
Twi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	It's uncanny more than anything. I played the game and respected Dan. What next? The murder clown being articulate and a vegetarian? The devout man being an Atheist? __________________

2018-02-22, 20:02	Link #107
Twi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Actually, I was kind of with Nameless/Archer on his view point. __________________

2018-02-26, 10:39	Link #110
belatkuro Kuro-chan Join Date: Mar 2012	For Shinji, it's just that he didn't want to ascend at all because ascending means killing another person again. So he stayed on the 1st floor. Spoiler: Then 14 days later Chakravartin happened and he became Floor Master since he's the only one in the floor. So he stayed and made the city Cape in the 1st floor as a refuge for Masters who want to quit the HGW. Source: his profile in the official website.

2018-02-22, 06:05	Link #104
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Well, to me it's one of two things, which mostly amount to the same thing. Either these characters aren't the same characters we know. Or these characters are the same characters we know, and have lived for over a millennium and are highly likely to be changed people. In which case... They're not exactly the same characters we know.

2018-02-26, 09:37	Link #109
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	I still love the show. This fight with Archer was miles better than the one with Rider. And we still get to see some of the special Skills of both servants. Too bad Rani won't be joining us in future arcs though. There's also the revelation that masters who already lost do not receive the right to ascend. That would mean this had also been the case for Shinji.

2018-02-26, 11:34	Link #111
shadow1296 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012	it was a good episode, i find it interesting that robin actually made a grave for dan already, as if to say he buried the real dan blackmore a long time ago, and it also looks like the servant he lost to in the original grail war was suzaku gozen, it is sad to see rani go, oh and hey rin where were you all this time __________________

2018-02-26, 12:20	Link #112
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	So the real Dan was already dead, this one was just a copy made by the Moon Cell. His change in personality can be explained by what Rani said about the Moon Cell being unable to understand and properly replicate human emotions, since it happened right after he was revived. We saw Dead Face Hakuno in action this time. Interesting that he could activate this mode to save Rani, going against the wishes of the dead who wanted him to leave her behind and kill Dan. Shame Rani is gone already, but we got Rin back. __________________

2018-02-26, 12:59	Link #113
Twi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	...I wanted Rani to live. I liked her. But yeah, Archer had basically wanted to pay respects to the man he'd been when they first met. I did love seeing his Noble Phantasm at work in that past footage. It's a nasty, effective one. __________________

2018-02-27, 02:34	Link #114
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	I don't get the final showdown. What was that cube thing? What role did Rani play?

2018-02-27, 08:27	Link #116
belatkuro Kuro-chan Join Date: Mar 2012	Uh, he won against that guy with the astronaut Servant. He won so he can ascend but he didn't because he didn't want to kill another person on the 2nd floor.

2018-02-27, 09:10	Link #117
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	...He was defeated in the previous war though.... Like Dan...

2018-02-27, 13:45	Link #120
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	Ah, right, thanks. So he was following the clone at a safe distance?